New Patch. Mini gear guide and info for Rogues.

What is the name of the 12 dodge enchant cause i just bought steelweave which is 12+ dodge that can only be placed on items with 35 or more item lvl
 
i did the same thing the first time i tried. its called "dodge" lol



jabster i have no clue bud just double check but that could very well be it im not familiar with starting stats and how they show in your stats section.
 
i just looked in someones enchant book and it also says for the dodge enchant it is item lvl 35 :/
 
Hey, guys. Total newcomer to lvl1 twinking here, my bank character has been mutilated so many times by the fire elementals that I decided to do something about it. After spending few days researching lvl1 twinking Im quite confused from all the obsolete/plain wrong information around, maybe someone here could help me out a bit? : )



This guide seems to be up-to-date, or what do you think? Also I havent seen much talk here about Sunstrider Axe, what seems to be superior to Keen Machete? Guide from my link also recommends Unholy, but do you think Lifestealing is better? I originally got belf paladin, but decided to roll belf rogue after reading that rogues n hunters are pretty much the best. I dont have any heirlooms.



Sorry for my blunt n stupid questions, but everyone is a noob once, right? : )
 
read the guide if you need info.



your post made no sense to me.



if your trying just to survive against fire elementals stack stamina.



that guide is not up to date, and it was just for group pve.



this guide has sections for each goal you have for your twink.
 
ur guide recomends unholy? for what? pre 4.0.1 it was better than lifesteal for pve but if u dodge 90% off all attacks then lifesteal is the better choise. using unholy when dueling casters isnt very as the curse wont help a bit. suntrider axe is better than keen machete cuz of the slow speed but boas is way better.
 
Djaeb said:
ur guide recomends unholy? for what? pre 4.0.1 it was better than lifesteal for pve but if u dodge 90% off all attacks then lifesteal is the better choise. using unholy when dueling casters isnt very as the curse wont help a bit. suntrider axe is better than keen machete cuz of the slow speed but boas is way better.
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First off not being rude but i can't understand half the things you just said.



You didn't read my guide right then. I only recommend unholy for pve dps (lowers the damage the tank takes). If you're dps then why would you ever need life stealing unless your target is AOEing?



Sunstrider axe is NOT better than Keen Machete because Sinister Strike is spammable when using 10 haste to gloves.



so your procs will be more even regardless. making weapon DPS > Speed regardless of enchant now.



Edit: No where in my guide do I recommend using Unholy vs Casters BTW.
 
lol sry justgotagm i was referring to the guide coledash was talking about. (your guide is good)

lifesteal is better as long as you are dmged and you will be with rogues tanking as aggro switching is vital. having insane dodge will only reduce the gain from unholy and increase the gain from a 30heal. unholy should only be used if dodge is low or if your health is high. lifesteal got higher dps too.

Sinister strike does not seem very spamable to me but the reason the axe is better is that you would get a lot more procs from procing enchants if using it compared to the machete from ss.

The more ss you can spam the higher is the difference in dps between slow and fast.

The dmg from ss can maybe be higher with sunstrider axe (idk) cuz off the exreeme slow speed if you stack enough ap.



Edit: if a nelf only agi from got 2 weps with 15 agi it would get 7,4 more dps from ap. (this is counted on 15 ss per min but with 10 haste it is more and the difference in % would be greater, armor and dodge is same for everything and i won't count on it)



keen machete got 7.326dps (24% miss and ap counted) ss will hit for 17.82dmg=267dmg per min=4.455dps the total dps is 11.781dps



sunstrider axe got 7.22dps (24% miss and ap counted) ss will hit for 33.25dmg=498,75dmg per min=8.3125dps total dps is 15.5325dps

(i didnt bothered with the flat dmg extra that ss gives cuz it doesnt matter)

now lifesteal:



keen machete: 6ppm base. 1.8*10=18% chance to proc per swing. 15 ss per min 15*0,18= 2.7 procs from ss 6+2.7=8.7ppm total



sunstrider axe: 6ppm base. 3.5*10=35% chance to proc per swing. 15 ss per min 15*0.35=5.25 procs from ss 6+5.25=11.25ppm total



sunstrider axe clearly pwns keen machete for any non-boa twink with its vastly superior dps.



now unholy vs lifesteal

for a nelf with 90% dodge and 7% chanse to get missed unholy saves 8.1 hp per min if the target got 0% avoidance.

for a nelf with 90% dodge and 7% chanse to get missed lifesteal saves 180 hp per min if the target got 0% avoidance.

those 180hp per min is enough to keep you alive forever if the mob got 100dps since it deals 3dps after your dodge wich is 180dmg per min.



unholy also got ~17% less dps so it should only be used if you got full hp



Ps. sry for my first post i agree that it is hard to understand and i dont think you are rude for saying the truth.
 
Djaeb said:
lol sry justgotagm i was referring to the guide coledash was talking about. (your guide is good)

lifesteal is better as long as you are dmged and you will be with rogues tanking as aggro switching is vital. having insane dodge will only reduce the gain from unholy and increase the gain from a 30heal. unholy should only be used if dodge is low or if your health is high. lifesteal got higher dps too.

Sinister strike does not seem very spamable to me but the reason the axe is better is that you would get a lot more procs from procing enchants if using it compared to the machete from ss.

The more ss you can spam the higher is the difference in dps between slow and fast.

The dmg from ss can maybe be higher with sunstrider axe (idk) cuz off the exreeme slow speed if you stack enough ap.



Edit: if a nelf only agi from got 2 weps with 15 agi it would get 7,4 more dps from ap. (this is counted on 15 ss per min but with 10 haste it is more and the difference in % would be greater, armor and dodge is same for everything and i won't count on it)



keen machete got 7.326dps (24% miss and ap counted) ss will hit for 17.82dmg=267dmg per min=4.455dps the total dps is 11.781dps



sunstrider axe got 7.22dps (24% miss and ap counted) ss will hit for 33.25dmg=498,75dmg per min=8.3125dps total dps is 15.5325dps

(i didnt bothered with the flat dmg extra that ss gives cuz it doesnt matter)

now lifesteal:



keen machete: 6ppm base. 1.8*10=18% chance to proc per swing. 15 ss per min 15*0,18= 2.7 procs from ss 6+2.7=8.7ppm total



sunstrider axe: 6ppm base. 3.5*10=35% chance to proc per swing. 15 ss per min 15*0.35=5.25 procs from ss 6+5.25=11.25ppm total



sunstrider axe clearly pwns keen machete for any non-boa twink with its vastly superior dps.



now unholy vs lifesteal

for a nelf with 90% dodge and 7% chanse to get missed unholy saves 8.1 hp per min if the target got 0% avoidance.

for a nelf with 90% dodge and 7% chanse to get missed lifesteal saves 180 hp per min if the target got 0% avoidance.

those 180hp per min is enough to keep you alive forever if the mob got 100dps since it deals 3dps after your dodge wich is 180dmg per min.



unholy also got ~17% less dps so it should only be used if you got full hp



Ps. sry for my first post i agree that it is hard to understand and i dont think you are rude for saying the truth.
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Regardless of anything you just said because i'm not good with crazy formulas.



WITH BOA



PVE Solo - Dual 15 agility

PVE Group (DPS Role) - Single Wield Unholy < Maybe use Offhand with 15 agility

PVP Caster - Single Wield Life Stealing < Maybe use Offhand with 15 agility

PVP Melee - Dual 15 Agility < Maybe use Mainhand with Life Stealing



There is no room for argument. At all.





The only argument i'm not 100% sure is which weapons if its non boa.



If you're using Agility. Keen Machete is BiS.



If you're using Unholy or Lifestealing with 10 haste to gloves which is the only enchant you would use if you're not stacking dodge ( PVE Group and PVP Casters)

then Im still 99% sure that weapon speed doesn't matter as much because the haste and new re-gen allows more spamming SS making weapon speed not factor in as much.



Therefore Keen Machete > Sunstrider Axe regardless of enchant.
 
lucky you didnt say 100% sure because the extra regen will just make the slow weps even more supperior to the fast ones.

a slow wep hit harder with every hit and ss deals instant dmg from a normal hit + a bit more. this means that the slower the wep the higher the dmg and the higher chanse to proc a enchant.

and with even more regen you will get even more ss hits. speed will always matter as long as ss is a intsant atk scaling with wep dmg per swing.



let say you weild the weps without ap. no ap at all from gear or even base stats. only enchant is 10haste on gloves. armor, miss, dodge and such will just confuse so i wont count on them.

(i have counted with 20 ss hits per min using 10 haste and added the white dps from haste)

keen machete got 2.5 base dps (3.15 with 26%haste) and if counting ss in that the dps is 4,65

sunstrider axe got 2.1 base dps (2.646 with 26% haste) and if counting ss in that the dps is 5.146



adding any enchant will just increase the different dps between these and sunstrider will win over machete thanks to the slow speed.

insane haste wight make machete better but then you need more than 150% if it's even possible to make machete a better choise. idk how energy regen scale with haste.



the fact that we have more energy regen is what makes slow weps so important now and spamming ss makes wep speed a much LARGER factor for us. i am 100% sure of this.

Whatever you may say, more energy reg will always make slower wep speed more important. The fact that we can use ss at all is the reason we go with slow stuff and slow stuff will become even better if we get buffs to ss in any way, dmg, energy reg, whatever. slow will be better than fast and Sunstrider Axe IS > than keen machete.

justgotagm said:
There is no room for argument. At all.
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yup thats right.
 
you are right i am wrong :)



my whole argument was based off the fact that i thought keen machete had a damage range X-X higher than sunstrider, but a quick check on wowhead told me differently.



But everything else i said was right.



MY argument was based off of something i was too lazy to check therefore kudos to you for helping me update my guide :p





Final Words

If you dont have boa gear and you are a blood elf



Sunstrider Axe > Keen Machete with all enchants.
 
justgotagm said:
Sunstrider Axe > Keen Machete with a proccing weapon.
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actually sunstrider axe>keen machete with any gear you might have.

as proven in my math the high ss dmg from the axe completely beats the 0.4 white dps higher the machete got. :p
 
i edited that into my guide before you said it :p forgot to edit it on that post but yup thanks brah.





edit: Shortsword vs Machete :)))
 
here you go, shortsword VS machete :D



agi: counted on 20 ss per min (idk if its correct when using 10 haste on gloves), 26% haste, 24% miss on white, 5% on yellow and 103 ap (7.4dps)



keen machete: 9.48 white dps and 2.37 yellow dps=11.85dps total

AF shortsword: 9.09 white dps and 3.2851 yellow dps=12.3751dps total



lifesteal: counted on 20 ss per min, idk if its correct when using 10 haste on gloves



keen machete: 18% chance to proc 6ppm base. 18% of 20=3.6 so 6+3.6= 9.6ppm

AF shortsword: 26% chance to proc 6ppm base. 26% of 20=5.2 so 6+5.2=11.2ppm (1.6 more)



AF shortsword > keen machete thanks to the slow speed.



arcane forged shortsword is bought from a vendor at belf starting place so alliance ppl need to get over to alliance via neutral AH.

AF shortsword got 0.4dps more than a normal shortsword and the same speed.



Note: i totaly failed at first but it is corrected now. (failed again -_- forgot that ss is 42% of wep dmg now, correct now...... i hope)
 
Cba to read the whole thread, if say I want to pvp what the best weapons to use and which enchants should I be getting (vs melee and casters)?



EDIT: also not bloodelf, can get BOAs.
 
use any of the 2.8speed boas or the 2.7speed with 6 dps. the 2.7 speed got slightly more white dps than the 2.8speed but the 2.8 got stronger ss and more procs so the difference is very minimal.



agi for melee. unholy/lifesteal might be better in MH as ss deals so low dmg now.

i would say lifesteal and pouch till u lose 100hp then dual lifesteal vs casters.

for OH battleworn thrashblade is bis for the 5% chance on hit but it is also very minor and i prefer fast weps over that.



remeber that pvp is much what you like, this is only my recommendation. its your choise.
 
Melee - Dual wield 15 agility (Battleworn Thrash Blade's)



Caster- Single wield Lifestealing (Battleworn Thrash Blade)



Read the weapon section yo........





Edit: BTW thanks a bunch Djaeb <3
 
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