penicillin
OG
priests should not blindly dispell everything.
MS effect at 19
- Thread starter Hamcake
- Start date
Spooksters
OG
No, they shouldn't - But a lot do. and no, 20% is not game-breaking, but hey - it's kind of nice. Enhancement shamans lost the MS effect because they didn't need help killing healers at 70/80 - if you're an enhancement shaman and you can't split a healer open you're doing it wrong ^_^. This 20% is dispellable, but like Cliche said so is wound-poison!!!!
Evocate
OG
First.. priests cant dispel wound poison. Why? Its holy. What good priests in arena are holy? None. Second, wound poison is effective because it is constantly applied. Lets go over 80 (which is all that matters for Blizz). Priests, useless, wott hurt these teams. Druid: Still OP healer, wont really matter in the end. Shaman; doesnt really matter. Totem stomp rapes the comps MR normally does. Those it doesnt, this wont help. Paladins: Doesnt matter. Non healer comps. Obv doesnt matter. Now, why are they doing this change? Because at 80 most of the healers can heal through a mage easily. LoS the mage as much as you can and throw off heals and you have yourself a game. This gives mages a bit more help in 5s, and while PMR is still strong, that is one of the few mage comps where this is overtly OP. Dont call out mages by one comp over and over and over again. PMR nerfs are coming (fear and blind on same CD was one etc.) This is very helpful at 80 (I dont play a mage btw) and to be honest I dont think Blizz gives a damn about how helpful it is at 19s.
Now since I play 19s, heres why I like it. Mages dont beat healers at 1v1's. This might tip our balance a bit and make us more so of a viable arena class. Second, on D. This gives us some more viability in that instead of a pure kiting D, some D's may choose to utilize this, with heavy CC on the healer/s (normally one O priest and sometimes a shaman) to burst down a warrior or even one of the healers. So far I like it, and in the grand scheme of wolf shamans, travel druids and cheetah hunters.. this fits in nicely =)
Now since I play 19s, heres why I like it. Mages dont beat healers at 1v1's. This might tip our balance a bit and make us more so of a viable arena class. Second, on D. This gives us some more viability in that instead of a pure kiting D, some D's may choose to utilize this, with heavy CC on the healer/s (normally one O priest and sometimes a shaman) to burst down a warrior or even one of the healers. So far I like it, and in the grand scheme of wolf shamans, travel druids and cheetah hunters.. this fits in nicely =)
Cliche
OG
I'm confused why anyone would say a 20% ms is useless. I really am. By CD i assume you mean dr. 20% is 20% and it will help. I am having a hard time deciphering what you're trying to say in the second half of that paragraph. It is definitely hard to heal through a mage who has had time to set up his damage.
BTW, I play an enhancement shaman in decent raiding gear at 80 and healers definitely do not get split open if specced and geared correctly.
BTW, I play an enhancement shaman in decent raiding gear at 80 and healers definitely do not get split open if specced and geared correctly.
Evocate
OG
First: No one said it was useless. Germs and I are defending it as not being OP. I am going a step further and saying it is necessary for DPS reasons at 19. 19 Mages do not beat healers 99% of the time unless the healer sucks. This helps make a 19 mage more viable at 19 arena.
If you dont premade the second paragraph wont make sense to you. Traditionally people run kiting D's which means the FC keeps moving and a mage keeps people slowed etc. With a MS effect defenses have the ability to slow down and perhaps kill a healer or a hunter/warrior by keeping up the MS effect and bursting the target. This gives two benefits. First either you are clearing the field, or second you are forcing an OOM O healer. Provided you keep the healer in combat that will severely curtail the O.
Not sure if that made it clearer, tell me if it didnt.
If you dont premade the second paragraph wont make sense to you. Traditionally people run kiting D's which means the FC keeps moving and a mage keeps people slowed etc. With a MS effect defenses have the ability to slow down and perhaps kill a healer or a hunter/warrior by keeping up the MS effect and bursting the target. This gives two benefits. First either you are clearing the field, or second you are forcing an OOM O healer. Provided you keep the healer in combat that will severely curtail the O.
Not sure if that made it clearer, tell me if it didnt.
Cliche
OG
Evocate said:
I am talking about this paragraph, but I have run premades:
People were talking about why this is not needed at 80. At 19, it won't help a mage beat a hunter and it wont help a mage beat a healer. People dont usually put focus on killing the other team's o in 19 premade so much as kiting them. I have no idea why you think permafrost is going to help you kill a hunter or warrior. Neither of them are easily killable by a mage.
Evocate
OG
First if you dont beat warriors as a mage at 19.. you need to practice more. Hunters cant be beaten.. thats true, I never said they could nor will they be able to. I said this gives mage teams more viability at 19 arena because now healer teams are easily counteracted.. this makes a hunter/druid and hunter/shaman team a bit easier to beat. You are right Cliche. Atm people dont focus on killing other teams. WITH THIS they could do it with the right type of defense. Its a new strategy.
You arent actually vocalizing your objections. You brought up new ones.. but not ones with what I actually said. Mind making it clearer?
Mage Rogue teams are always about how good the mage and rogue are as a team. Thats why its always a solid comp like PMR is. If you are a good priest (atm) its very hard to win as mage rogue. This helps a lot at 80 for MR teams. And once again stop tunneling in on one type of comp. Think of other mage teams like MW and MS. These teams are widely helped by this new change.
You arent actually vocalizing your objections. You brought up new ones.. but not ones with what I actually said. Mind making it clearer?
Mage Rogue teams are always about how good the mage and rogue are as a team. Thats why its always a solid comp like PMR is. If you are a good priest (atm) its very hard to win as mage rogue. This helps a lot at 80 for MR teams. And once again stop tunneling in on one type of comp. Think of other mage teams like MW and MS. These teams are widely helped by this new change.
Cliche
OG
Evocate said:
My original arguement was about your first paragraph regarding 80 pvp. You largely ignored that in your reply and talked about 19s, so I did too. I don't lose to mages on my warrior, hell my warrior isnt even 3.1 updated but I still wont lose to mages on my warrior. I have fought tons and tons of good mages, too. (Cloudkill was able to beat me but I have a frost res set now so he can't either >.>) As far as I've seen any team with a hunter will shut down a mage like nothing else, so I don't think that will help at all. Again though, I was originally saying that a 20% ms is not necessary for frost mages at all.
Teams don't focus on killing the other teams offense largely because 1. its not necessary 2. It makes your offense's job a lot harder. Why would a new form of defense kill the opposing team's offense just because they have a 20% ms? If you wanted a defense that could kill offense its not hard, just put a dps class on d.
As for mage rogue, the rogue has wound poison and since its 2's I'm wound poison should always be up on the target you're focusing. Plus, Mage rogue teams are a cc+burst comp which means when played correctly in ideal situations there is extremely little healing done by the other side in the first place. A lot of times, if the other team survives the initial burst, you're in trouble anyway since Mage Rogue can't play endurance matches. I'm not tunneling in on one type of comp, you brought this comp up not me. Mage Warrior has the same problem as Mage Rogue except they have less cc >.>