More Haste General Tips Needed

[Roadwarrior]

So Haste>crit or crit>Haste for paladin i alredy stacked vers
[doublepost=1550219453,1550218088][/doublepost]And 1 more thing is a lvl 29 ret paladin willing to duel my tank i am on server silvermoon wanna see diffrence in strenght . So Will be logged in around 19u And Will wait at goldshire. Name : stamcrazy.

I stack haste because 1) it is fun 2) 1 second off heals can save anybody in a pinch 3) its the most damage you can do as a Ret in a non-farming capacity.

Hate gives you the most damage in PUGs. If your team is being farmed whether you stacked haste/Crit/ or Verse wont matter because you are being farmed... So in games that are evenly matched or you are winning... Haste just lets you do the most damage because you have no rotation gaps... its just constant Blades and Templar's with no gaps... that is far more damage with 167 strength than somebody with no haste at around 180-190 with 20% Versatility waiting on rotations and hoping for Art of War. If you could stack strength to 280 that would be a totally different story... but I think even if you go nutzoid you can hit 212 (maybe? including FLASK and burning a trinket slot on +8 strength).

I have a full Crit/Haste set with around 185 Strength 18% verse I think and it is clunky and slow and unfun. 1.5 second heals make it hard to actually save somebody that is being nuked... 1 second heals is a HUGE difference in actual game play. It isn't just about damage, its about overall usefulness.

If you are playing Ret and just trying to do Fury Warrior damage you are an idiot. You are a hybrid healer with a stupid good tool box. My number one consumable is mana potions so I can rattle off 8 heals in 8 seconds... I've honestly seen that win just as many skirmishes as hitting things.

What really kills a Ret is being holy locked by any arcane mage, because they have the firepower to kill you with in that small window regardless of your health or versatility... every other match up is winnable IMO if you have your tools up... but then you are also getting into a dueling situation which is not how you should judge anything... ever.

[doublepost=1550241979][/doublepost]

Taking back to back surges is different when they are 700 than when they are 800, forsue. And for warriors there are games that even with 3 twink heals you can barely charge in before getting melted even with a decent vers set, and i say it because in one of the only 29 wargames that have occured this xpac i was playing warrior and i couldn´t charge in without having leap to back up with 2900 stam 27% vers, and wargames are pretty much what a balanced bg output would look like.

I don't see how you can compare any wargame to a pug at all... even if the teams are all twinks (which never happens) they are still uncoordinated and uncommunicative... that is night and day ... charging in knowing you are going to have heals, is different than charging in and hoping you have heals... or charging in knowing you have heals and are just going to wrecks some ungeared trash.

 

[Dimitri]

I stack haste because 1) it is fun 2) 1 second off heals can save anybody in a pinch 3) its the most damage you can do as a Ret in a non-farming capacity.

Hate gives you the most damage in PUGs. If your team is being farmed whether you stacked haste/Crit/ or Verse wont matter because you are being farmed... So in games that are evenly matched or you are winning... Haste just lets you do the most damage because you have no rotation gaps... its just constant Blades and Templar's with no gaps... that is far more damage with 167 strength than somebody with no haste at around 180-190 with 20% Versatility waiting on rotations and hoping for Art of War. If you could stack strength to 280 that would be a totally different story... but I think even if you go nutzoid you can hit 212 (maybe? including FLASK and burning a trinket slot on +8 strength).

I have a full Crit/Haste set with around 185 Strength 18% verse I think and it is clunky and slow and unfun. 1.5 second heals make it hard to actually save somebody that is being nuked... 1 second heals is a HUGE difference in actual game play. It isn't just about damage, its about overall usefulness.

If you are playing Ret and just trying to do Fury Warrior damage you are an idiot. You are a hybrid healer with a stupid good tool box. My number one consumable is mana potions so I can rattle off 8 heals in 8 seconds... I've honestly seen that win just as many skirmishes as hitting things.

What really kills a Ret is being holy locked by any arcane mage, because they have the firepower to kill you with in that small window regardless of your health or versatility... every other match up is winnable IMO if you have your tools up... but then you are also getting into a dueling situation which is not how you should judge anything... ever.

[doublepost=1550241979][/doublepost]

I don't see how you can compare any wargame to a pug at all... even if the teams are all twinks (which never happens) they are still uncoordinated and uncommunicative... that is night and day ... charging in knowing you are going to have heals, is different than charging in and hoping you have heals... or charging in knowing you have heals and are just going to wrecks some ungeared trash.

It can compare by a lot, good teams will target any melee overextending and melt it through heals. It is even more important on hard games aka (games you are more likely going to lose), if you can prevent getting stomped, you might even get a win out.

 

[Tweakedirl]

I really wanted the haste dream to be real and put lots of effort into building my Warriors haste set which atm is about 31.61 haste 184 strength a 3.4 second bloodthirst cd and 1.14 GCD but the sad reality is that stacking vers is just better. MY vers set is 26% verse , which is almost = to a permanent zerker buff, its nuts. There is zero ambiguity with the best secondary to stack on 29 fury, its versatility. I dont play pally but with the current state of 29 retcompared to the glory days of early legion can you actually aafford to ignore flat damage in exchange for faster flash of lights?

 

[Roadwarrior]

I really wanted the haste dream to be real and put lots of effort into building my Warriors haste set which atm is about 31.61 haste 184 strength a 3.4 second bloodthirst cd and 1.14 GCD but the sad reality is that stacking vers is just better. MY vers set is 26% verse , which is almost = to a permanent zerker buff, its nuts. There is zero ambiguity with the best secondary to stack on 29 fury, its versatility. I dont play pally but with the current state of 29 retcompared to the glory days of early legion can you actually aafford to ignore flat damage in exchange for faster flash of lights?

Various ACTUAL things that effect RET in game:

Most Rets do not weapon swap... you should use 3. Anybody that does not swap is just wasting their time.

Fury generates its own haste and other melee classes are energy based... Paladin does not/is not. RET with no haste is just like playing ARMS where you are waiting forever for cooldowns and hoping white swings do their job... works just fine if you are farming a PUG I guess. Again, Fury is not a comparison to RET... you are comparing a Lamborghini to a Pinto. Arms is the comparison to RET. Fury is broken for many reasons, number 1 and 2 being Execute and stacking versatility does not gimp their damage... it makes it better.

Versatility also does not work correctly for a RET because of two major factors in the 29s... 1) you are not teir 1... and you are not going to stop a Rogue or a Warrior that gets on your face out in the open if you don't have Bubble - A warrior will just kill you and Deterrence pretty much > your entire character. 2) You are also not going to stop your death if you are targeted by 2 or more Glass Cannons. There are far more times where 1 seconds heals have saved me versus glass cannon than versatility ever did.

Zeal is the only talent worth taking... not because its good, but because the others ones are junk.

RET Paladin's number one problem in the 29s is having no EXECUTE ability. There are games where I do 80-90k, but I have about 10 kills... because its just damage... then some warrior with 40K has 22 kills... EXECUTE... too many Fury Warriors don't respect or understand how powerful Execute is, and how much the single one ability defines their entire character in the 29s.

I don't play wargames and I never will, so I can't speak about that. What I can speak to is that, again, I'd rather do a lot of damage and try to kill a healer instead of stack vers and stam and try to live... if the other team is stacked with Booms and MM... you are dead anyway... that is just how the 29s works. If I have a competent healer 5% verse is just as effective as 20% verse and I'm not actually s***ing on my overall DPS.

You don't need to be a rocket scientist to see that when you get on a healer with 36% haste and ~10% verse it's FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR more pressure on them than when you get on them with terrible zero-haste rotations and 20% versatility and some Critical strike... anybody that says otherwise has just not played with stacking haste... they just read the Fury Manifesto and built their RET to suit.

I try to off-heal any team for 33-50% of the damage I do any BG... that is what makes you an effective Ret... not swinging your **** around. Bad Rets don't off heal... I don't care how long they have been twinking or who thinks they are cool. 1 second heals makes this easy and very effective IMO.

Again, just my opinion.

 

[Dimitri]

Am glad someone else actually understands weapon swaps in this bracket; paladíns killing blows are pretty much boj and tv am sure it just needs timing, as with rogué or boomy, also when i was playing arms at the start of the xpac was even easier to get kills, not with execute but with ms and overpower pretty much even with slam all those being similar to ret spells, as arms execute has like a 24 frames animation delay so it is Just not instant as furys execute. Am saying get like 10-15% vers 2000-2100 stam Just for not being that glassy as ret is puré front line or a healer babysitter. And i think in pugs ret can pull out more than fury in Hard games, quick flasho, hoj, Bob, slow i also recomend using shield weapon swap i use it a lot and it helps a lot vs mm as now blocks got buffed and you can Block aimedshots, also for when a rogué or fury war is training you down.

As always my points are for helping.