Just some general class discussion.

[Snowjobs]

So at this point we have had about a month or so to try out some various specs and classes. This thread is basicaly just to discuss observations on how each class plays in the field and possible tips of tricks you have noticed .

Some me things I have noticed:

Demo Locks.
they can take the 10% damage reduc glyph and play front line as a fear bot .
demo leap into howl of terror is a huge for securing efc kills.
they are very strong when combined with a big hitting dps and healer in 3s.
very under rated IMO.

Prot warrior dps:
at first I thought they wouldn't be viable but they have lots of defensive CDs and their bleeds really can stack up some spread damage . I just can't see taking one over a arms warrior . thoughts ?

Hpally :
they have decent burst assist with holy shock (weaker than a rshaman lava burst though) and a very strong clense. It does poison and desiese an magic (ret paladin clense is better IMO though because they don't have to wory about dispelling a unstable aflic or a spriest dot. They have cc from talent choices so they really don't gain anything over ret there.
Denounce can be nice but is that realy enough of a reason to go holy over ret ?

Rdruid:
I'm determined to prove it viable as something other than a fc

Anyways if you have any ideas on a class or spec you have been itching to try let's discuss !!

 

[Adeimantus]

It's probably a l2p issue but I wasn't happy with arms survivability. Glyphed clap slows/bleeds a huge radius while you train something into the ground. I was quite surprised by the damage even if it's output is inferior to arms. It's probably on the whole worse than a well piloted arms warrior but I think it's viable.

I'm always a bit pissed when I have an HPal on my team as their heals are quite miserable. I'd take a ret every time over an HPal.

 

[Batts]

One ret(I'd actually like to see a good prot pally too!) is good for a team IMO to sync up kills with stuns and offheal a lot. With sader up their offhealing is pretty nuts. Hpallies bring like nothing a ret doesn't at this level, and are worse than other healers in terms of output. If it had BoP or Freedom etc, it'd make up for it a bit.

I really really enjoy my demo lock, dunno bout the 10% DR glyph over the succubus glyph, as you can't *really* stay frontlines even with it, at least in my experience with it. Meta form does bring armor to 30% though, and I had about 8k health unbuffed. I think demo is better used by supporting your heals with fearspam/double chaos wave roots, only going for healer fears when it's opportune. You can still petmove your succy behind enemy lines while invisible and nab good seduces when people don't expect it/as cross CC with a polymorph. -- added benefit is that glyphed imp is about your only actual source of contributing to kill dmg lol.

Arms survivability is great when you don't range your heals and switch to defensive stance at the first sign of being focused. I enjoy prot more than arms but I do think it's less effective in a mid comp. Good rend management blows deep wounds out of the water, and mortal strike is invaluable. Prot is a more forgiving and fun spec to play, though.

 

[Pattern]

Demo is interesting in 3s comp with a strong dps, the cc potential is so high that you can line up some sickening combo's (had a good time with that).

Only seen prot once, seemed ok but a good arms who can stance swap and keep rends up seems to whitewash prot imo.

As batts said, ret does everything hpal does imo while also being a soaker in frontline vs hpal shit output.

I could see an off healing kitty syncing bites for burst, but idk what spot it would take

 

[Batts]

Forreal tho lemme spell it out on paper as far as prot pallies are concerned.

Blinding light + hoj and speed of light -- 3 great tools, on top of a 15s cd ranged multi-target silence for disrupting heals.

Instant, off-the-gcd WoGs, powered by Guarded by the Light - Spell - World of Warcraft + 10%vers + healing seal -- and you have nothing else to spend holy power on. Mana regen is decently quick for limited flash of light offhealing too(probably when crusader procs for 100 more SP).

Bubble might cut your damage, but it doesn't stop cut your CC/heals/utility. Lay on hands is the biggest for prot too.

And the pièce de résistance -- Glyph of Consecration - Item - World of Warcraft
9s CD prot pally flare with no travel time.

I plan on eventually making one of my own... eventually. I have so many already though and I like demo lock's utility as well.
This would not be for people who like seeing their scoreboard dmg/healing or killing blows -- but it should be an excellent utility class.

 

[Brov]

How are WW monks?

 

[Batts]

Fists of Fury can kill people with procs up.... and stun everyone around the dead guy. Every 25 seconds. Wish it did less damage personally, can feel like an enhance shammy/feral at times. Damage outside of FoF is meh/decent.

Somewhat squish but decent offhealing and mobility(only boomy/rdruid and hunter are better I think), can dispel rogue poisons/DP, has an extra trinket, can karma EFC when pushing in for a bit more pressure(on top of FoF).

All around good class, dunno about taking one in premades -- Probably pretty easy to watch for and play around/focus down -- but I personally would.

 

[Stam]

I'm glad i'm seeing this - it's a pretty useful thread!

I've got a bunch of gear ready (some GF'd) and, as it currently is, am leveling a warrior with the aim of playing prot. I'm not concerned with topping charts (as I know that's usually reserved for Feral/BM/Hunters/whatever), but more about utility & control - with the ability to deal substantial damage. With that in mind, would I be wasting my time on a warrior? Is prot damage viable for pallies? I'd personally prefer to play the warrior, but I don't want to be useless..

Logically I can see that prot pallies have some awesome utility and off-healing etc, but I assume that comes at a cost of some kind...

Any feedback would be appreciated.
(I should mention I haven't played a 39 since BC...)

 

[Batts]

Warriors don't have much utility. Prot will more likely top the charts compared to arms(just spreading deep wounds), but arms has better meaningful damage/mortal strike debuff.

Prot pally does zero damage.

 

[Snowjobs]

Forreal tho lemme spell it out on paper as far as prot pallies are concerned.

Blinding light + hoj and speed of light -- 3 great tools, on top of a 15s cd ranged multi-target silence for disrupting heals.

Instant, off-the-gcd WoGs, powered by Guarded by the Light - Spell - World of Warcraft + 10%vers + healing seal -- and you have nothing else to spend holy power on. Mana regen is decently quick for limited flash of light offhealing too(probably when crusader procs for 100 more SP).

Bubble might cut your damage, but it doesn't stop cut your CC/heals/utility. Lay on hands is the biggest for prot too.

And the pièce de résistance -- Glyph of Consecration - Item - World of Warcraft
9s CD prot pally flare with no travel time.

I plan on eventually making one of my own... eventually. I have so many already though and I like demo lock's utility as well.
This would not be for people who like seeing their scoreboard dmg/healing or killing blows -- but it should be an excellent utility class.

Prot pally definatly has potential but you have to consider the 20% increased damage taken cause prot spec .

On te othe hand they have a lot of different tools for team play . The consecrate is nice but I may take a diff glyph . Their holy wrath can counter a demo lock leap or a sucubuss in the back casting seduce. Shield +interupt + stun + repentance can totaly lock up a healer for a long ass time. Non gcd heal is cute too.

Seems a little crazy atm but demo lock was suposed to be non viable as well.

i could see a prot pally repentancing out of a demo lock fear bomb on healers or a seduce .

 

[anatomyx]

I really really enjoy my demo lock, dunno bout the 10% DR glyph over the succubus glyph, as you can't *really* stay frontlines even with it, at least in my experience with it. Meta form does bring armor to 30% though, and I had about 8k health unbuffed. I think demo is better used by supporting your heals with fearspam/double chaos wave roots, only going for healer fears when it's opportune. You can still petmove your succy behind enemy lines while invisible and nab good seduces when people don't expect it/as cross CC with a polymorph. -- added benefit is that glyphed imp is about your only actual source of contributing to kill dmg lol.

tbh this kind of playstyle has no appeal for having on a team (from other players perspectives) and demo sounds way worse than ua

I know you like playing the spec but it sounds like all you really contribute to the game is being a CC bot and you do no damage outside of that which is really not good. there are other classes/specs that can do lots of CC and still do damage on top of it. the best peel in the game is killing someone, and if the "DPS" class you play isn't really capable of actually dealing meaningful damage then why bother, just seems like a wasted spot for the sake of playing an under-represented spec

 

[Shook]

Looks > Viability!

 

[Snowjobs]

tbh this kind of playstyle has no appeal for having on a team (from other players perspectives) and demo sounds way worse than ua

I know you like playing the spec but it sounds like all you really contribute to the game is being a CC bot and you do no damage outside of that which is really not good. there are other classes/specs that can do lots of CC and still do damage on top of it. the best peel in the game is killing someone, and if the "DPS" class you play isn't really capable of actually dealing meaningful damage then why bother, just seems like a wasted spot for the sake of playing an under-represented spec

If you were only cc'ing one person at a time I could see your point but having demo leap allows you to cc 3+ppl at once . Throw in a succy seduce in on a healer in the back.

When you you aren't doing big cc bombs I agree you are really just canceling out 1 person but those big cc bombs can help land kills and remove tons of preasure . You usualy get them about every 30 sec too

 

[Adeimantus]

The enemy team knows exactly what you are trying to do though. Healers and casters aren't going to be bunched like in PuGs for 3+ fears. I think anatomy is likely correct that losing a dps spot to a prot pal or demo is generally worse than just going with an affliction lock or mage. Doesn't seem like a forgone conclusion that demo is viable outside of uncontested pugs to me.

 

[Fancy]

The enemy team knows exactly what you are trying to do though. Healers and casters aren't going to be bunched like in PuGs for 3+ fears. I think anatomy is likely correct that losing a dps spot to a prot pal or demo is generally worse than just going with an affliction lock or mage. Doesn't seem like a forgone conclusion that demo is viable outside of uncontested pugs to me.

I honestly think Demo lock with aoe fear and good fear positioning is great in a team fight, although they don't do much damage they make back with some great cc.

 

[Batts]

The enemy team knows exactly what you are trying to do though. Healers and casters aren't going to be bunched like in PuGs for 3+ fears. I think anatomy is likely correct that losing a dps spot to a prot pal or demo is generally worse than just going with an affliction lock or mage. Doesn't seem like a forgone conclusion that demo is viable outside of uncontested pugs to me.

Have you ever actually watched a premade? People are just as bunched up, that's just how midfights work. Heals right behind ranged a bit behind melee - so everybody can be in range of what they need to hit. At worst a fearbomb will probably only hit 3 people, depending on where you aim. You can't really just run out of the way, either.

If you don't prioritize fearing even on UA lock, you're just an under performing spriest -- the dispel protection is nothing special compared to VT, your dots take longer to get up(and ramp agony) and more globals to maintain, along with having no real burst or direct damage.

Same deal with mages... if you use sheep 4 times a game and prioritize doing your mostly meager damage, you're being an under performing hunter.

I don't like the idea of a 5 hunter(the best, most mobile DPS with utility and CC), 1 rogue 1 FC 3 healer team mirror match. When you get into "not worth bringing" and start boiling down to "why not just stack ONLY best thing on paper" you've created a really stale metagame.

 

[Adeimantus]

Have you ever actually watched a premade? People are just as bunched up, that's just how midfights work. Heals right behind ranged a bit behind melee - so everybody can be in range of what they need to hit. At worst a fearbomb will probably only hit 3 people, depending on where you aim. You can't really just run out of the way, either.

If you don't prioritize fearing even on UA lock, you're just an under performing spriest -- the dispel protection is nothing special compared to VT, your dots take longer to get up(and ramp agony) and more globals to maintain, along with having no real burst or direct damage.

Same deal with mages... if you use sheep 4 times a game and prioritize doing your mostly meager damage, you're being an under performing hunter.

I don't like the idea of a 5 hunter(the best, most mobile DPS with utility and CC), 1 rogue 1 FC 3 healer team mirror match. When you get into "not worth bringing" and start boiling down to "why not just stack ONLY best thing on paper" you've created a really stale metagame.

I agree, to an extent people are naturally bunched. This can be mitigated with more thoughtful positioning, in particular when you know someone is ONLY there to get mass fears. For instance, you shouldn't be catching two healers and a dps in a fear. Running things like glyph of purify/maybe cleanse to make the landed fears less effective is a pretty powerful option too I think. My statement was assuming twink cup rules were being utilized. I don't like the idea of the hunter example either but that has no bearing on whether its true.

In my view, there is still a considerable difference between bringing a weaker dps class like mage with poly/slow utility and something like demo lock/prot with non-existent damage. The good aff locks I've seen can put up pretty good numbers while also being able to land clutch fears. I'd prefer if demo lock was viable because this bracket suffers from melee pablum, but I'm rather suspicious.