Is TW scaling really this bad?

[cletus]

So I took my first shot at tanking TW with an 11 Fury Warrior since the changes. I prepared by getting some more gear and swapping out Strength for secondary stats.

I went from ~107 Strength to ~70 and got my Crit and Haste up to ~25% and my Vers to 17/8%. I still had my old gear so I could prepare.

In a TBC dungeon trash has hundreds of health and bosses have ~2k. In the Gate of the Setting Sun, the elite trash had 2100 health w/ Strength gear (1600 otherwise) and the first boss was >8000 health with secondary stat gear. That's crazy. This isn't my favorite dungeon anyway but I ended up getting one shot by Sabotage. I know there's a mechanic to this but I tend to 5 box my own dungeons so I'm only really controlling one and have the rest on auto-follow. This gets more annoying with later expansions.

Anyway, Sabotage seems to do 4x 251 damage to the primary victim. That's more than my health (582). I can get more health but each Stamina point is only 3 health so I'd need more than +150 Stamina to survive this? Is that right?

Is this the new normal? Are the other MoP TW dungeons as bad? If so, there's really zero point in playing any of my twinks. Maybe that's a good thing. I can just unsub until Legion Remix.

Should I be going basically naked? is that the play? I've seen the chart someone helpfully prepared about health scaling with primary stat but it looks like even if I get my STrength to 30 or below, the health drop won't be significant enough to not get one shot.

 

[BANKONE]

People have been mathing the shit out of this

There’s a guide already out there I think

 

[parry10359]

So I took my first shot at tanking TW with an 11 Fury Warrior since the changes. I prepared by getting some more gear and swapping out Strength for secondary stats.

I went from ~107 Strength to ~70 and got my Crit and Haste up to ~25% and my Vers to 17/8%. I still had my old gear so I could prepare.

In a TBC dungeon trash has hundreds of health and bosses have ~2k. In the Gate of the Setting Sun, the elite trash had 2100 health w/ Strength gear (1600 otherwise) and the first boss was >8000 health with secondary stat gear. That's crazy. This isn't my favorite dungeon anyway but I ended up getting one shot by Sabotage. I know there's a mechanic to this but I tend to 5 box my own dungeons so I'm only really controlling one and have the rest on auto-follow. This gets more annoying with later expansions.

Anyway, Sabotage seems to do 4x 251 damage to the primary victim. That's more than my health (582). I can get more health but each Stamina point is only 3 health so I'd need more than +150 Stamina to survive this? Is that right?

Is this the new normal? Are the other MoP TW dungeons as bad? If so, there's really zero point in playing any of my twinks. Maybe that's a good thing. I can just unsub until Legion Remix.

Should I be going basically naked? is that the play? I've seen the chart someone helpfully prepared about health scaling with primary stat but it looks like even if I get my STrength to 30 or below, the health drop won't be significant enough to not get one shot.

drop some crit for some vers, you dont need to be above 17-18 percent crit

 

[cletus]

drop some crit for some vers, you dont need to be above 17-18 percent crit

I can't drop it that far, unfortunately. I checked my stats and they are:

• Crit: 66 (+21.11%, 26.11% total)
• Haste: 72 (+24.42%)
• Vers: 58 (+16.65%/8.32%)
• Mastery: 7 (+3.13%, 14.33% total)

Almost all my gems are +2 Haste / +2 Vers.. I do have 6 or so SL gems. 2 are Move speed an dhealing of course. The other four can be replaced by +2 Vers gems at the expense of Crit and Mastery but that's only going to get me +8 Vers, which I figure will barely crack 17%. I don't see that making a massive difference vs being on eshot.

People have been mathing the shit out of this

There’s a guide already out there I think

Yes, I've referenced that.

My point here is how it's supposed to play and feel and looking at a curve of Primary stat to +Health doesn't tell you that. I'm interested in people's experiences.

 

[Penster]

Yeah things are going to be more rough. Seems like (as a very broad and general assumption) people using the 57 primary stat window have been working out well. Soloing is still tough, but doable. Here's my set as of now: https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/character/us/moon-guard/chrisbreaux/
Still some obvious slots for upgrades but I've been having a blast regearing.

 

[Neorang@]

I got 0 problems on MOP TW with my fury with 89 str, maybe you need better gear

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/es-es/character/eu/cthun/teboosteo/

 

[parry10359]

Since you're effectively describing soloing them, then I think the simple answer is just yes, for true optimization you'll want to drop slightly more strength until you get down to 62 (thats the big breakpoint for 11 warrior) Several people are doing this by equipping Mail pieces with stats/slots that suit them. I'm not interested in doing it but it is min/maxing. I think this is potentially a waste of time because all blizz has to do is make the scaling take effect based on any primary stat, not just the class-usable one.

I don't feel like doing that for that and other reasons so I'm just doing less soloing, but even solo I haven't had a bad time this week (MoP).

I immediately got in a group in Gate after reading your post
one of my 11s has 94 strength still, didn't drop much
only has 2 gem-slot pieces, the rest are TW
crit 16%
haste 23.7%
mastery 11%
vers 24.4%


I wasn't soloing but i was way ahead of most of the party and it was still a breeze
weapons and trinkets and weap enchants still matter so

having baron sword (str but good proc) and or sul'thraze
both with lifestealing, is good stuff

having gruuk's evil eye now makes up for your lower crit
my other trinket is cannonball runner but basically i was just avoiding strength procs

No one shots have happened to me this week, I have 693 life
What a lot of folks have expressed, which seems to be true, is that some "oneshots" aren't even related to the new intentional tuning, but that doesn't mean they'll get fixed either

Blizz really has no incentive to fix things that punch people 10-15 real bad, because such a small group of the playerbase, and an unfavorable one in their eyes, hangs out in that range for any extended length of play; most players will level out of that space before a 1shot ever pesters them.

And I still recommend more baseline vers. Since you're tanking, the fact that it affects incoming and outcoming both makes it effectively twice as valuable as crit, AND thats before you even account for lifestealing scaling off it

 

[pizza_by_moonlight]

Since you're effectively describing soloing them, then I think the simple answer is just yes, for true optimization you'll want to drop slightly more strength until you get down to 62 (thats the big breakpoint for 11 warrior) Several people are doing this by equipping Mail pieces with stats/slots that suit them. I'm not interested in doing it but it is min/maxing. I think this is potentially a waste of time because all blizz has to do is make the scaling take effect based on any primary stat, not just the class-usable one.

I don't feel like doing that for that and other reasons so I'm just doing less soloing, but even solo I haven't had a bad time this week (MoP).

I immediately got in a group in Gate after reading your post
one of my 11s has 94 strength still, didn't drop much
only has 2 gem-slot pieces, the rest are TW
crit 16%
haste 23.7%
mastery 11%
vers 24.4%


I wasn't soloing but i was way ahead of most of the party and it was still a breeze
weapons and trinkets and weap enchants still matter so

having baron sword (str but good proc) and or sul'thraze
both with lifestealing, is good stuff

having gruuk's evil eye now makes up for your lower crit
my other trinket is cannonball runner but basically i was just avoiding strength procs

No one shots have happened to me this week, I have 693 life
What a lot of folks have expressed, which seems to be true, is that some "oneshots" aren't even related to the new intentional tuning, but that doesn't mean they'll get fixed either

Blizz really has no incentive to fix things that punch people 10-15 real bad, because such a small group of the playerbase, and an unfavorable one in their eyes, hangs out in that range for any extended length of play; most players will level out of that space before a 1shot ever pesters them.

And I still recommend more baseline vers. Since you're tanking, the fact that it affects incoming and outcoming both makes it effectively twice as valuable as crit, AND thats before you even account for lifestealing scaling off it

I'm in the middle of trying to optimize my fury twink as we speak, and found myself unable to loot any mail socketed pieces from normal TBC dungeons using Chromie Time. Personal loot on a warrior, so mail is off the table.

Is running the dungeon with a second shaman or hunter alt necessary, to then trade to my warrior?

 

[cletus]

I'm in the middle of trying to optimize my fury twink as we speak, and found myself unable to loot any mail socketed pieces from normal TBC dungeons using Chromie Time. Personal loot on a warrior, so mail is off the table.

Is running the dungeon with a second shaman or hunter alt necessary, to then trade to my warrior?

Your best option is to trigger legacy loot and then solo the dungeon. I'm unsure of the exact mechanism. I'll be testing this myself but it's either having a character above level do one of the following:

• Enter the dungeon
• Kill a mob
• Kill a boss

Once in legacy mode, the loot isn't personalized. I'm finding this necessary because the https://www.wowhead.com/item=178769/infinitely-divisible-ooze (as one example) isn't on a Warrior's loot table.

Normally in legacy mode, the bosses drop 2 pieces randomly split between those present. If there's only one person present (eg the other player zoned or logged out or left the party) then they get both. Note: these are completely random from the loot table so expect unusuable items and items from every armor type.

In this event you get FOUR (4) drops instead of 2 so once you're in legacy loot mode, you can solo the dungeon and get 4 drops per boss, which is fantasstic. I just got the Ooze on my first attempt today.

EDIT: confirmed. Just being in the dungeon with an 80 triggers legacy mode. Don't have to kill a thing. Of course you can speed things up by clearing to the boss you care about.

 

[pizza_by_moonlight]

Your best option is to trigger legacy loot and then solo the dungeon. I'm unsure of the exact mechanism. I'll be testing this myself but it's either having a character above level do one of the following:

• Enter the dungeon
• Kill a mob
• Kill a boss

Once in legacy mode, the loot isn't personalized. I'm finding this necessary because the https://www.wowhead.com/item=178769/infinitely-divisible-ooze (as one example) isn't on a Warrior's loot table.

Normally in legacy mode, the bosses drop 2 pieces randomly split between those present. If there's only one person present (eg the other player zoned or logged out or left the party) then they get both. Note: these are completely random from the loot table so expect unusuable items and items from every armor type.

In this event you get FOUR (4) drops instead of 2 so once you're in legacy loot mode, you can solo the dungeon and get 4 drops per boss, which is fantasstic. I just got the Ooze on my first attempt today.

That is completely fantastic info & news about the event, thanks a bunch Cletus! Grats on that Ooze!

Quick edit: I tested in Underbog. Only killed the first couple mobs on my 80, then brought my twink inside, and zoned my 80 out. Soloed the dungeon after, and I'm getting all 4 legacy loot drops on the twink.