Inc Wall of Text- History of Twinks- 19's
- Thread starter Rayekk
- Start date
Rayekk
OG
Thanks Soy- great detail- I'll do some digging on the exploits- I'm torn on covering them, as they are a "hot topic" but in a hisotrical record, you're right in saying they deserve a mention.
I'm not planning on covering the how it was done (at least not the specifics); moreover the items used- were they the Aldor/Scryer shoulders only, and the head inscription that came later from Shattered Sun rep? Where there more?
Also, I'm not too up on the mining bug; I do know the basics on enti's- a program bug on the two-hander that could hit for 274 dmg, right? (could it be enchanted too?)
Any other landmark exploits I need to cover?
I'm not planning on covering the how it was done (at least not the specifics); moreover the items used- were they the Aldor/Scryer shoulders only, and the head inscription that came later from Shattered Sun rep? Where there more?
Also, I'm not too up on the mining bug; I do know the basics on enti's- a program bug on the two-hander that could hit for 274 dmg, right? (could it be enchanted too?)
Any other landmark exploits I need to cover?
sweetbreads
OG
Great post!
This is a stupid point of clarification, but a pet peeve of mine. The term "twinking" is well older than everquest. I remember using it in the late 80s / early 90s as a synonym for munchkin in tabletop role playing. Here is a newsgroup post from 96 at least using the term (I never could find a reference older than that, but its clear from the post that its been in use for a while already):
http://groups.google.com/group/rec....0867f90ef318?lnk=gst&q=twink#0e920867f90ef318
Its an old FRPG term that means "someone that maximizes their character's power well above a normal character by obsessively acquiring stats, gear, and abilities, often through loopholes or exploits in the game system".
I would replace the "origins of the word 'twink'" title with something else. The section isn't really about that anyways. I would use "origins of twinking in WoW" or something else.
This is a stupid point of clarification, but a pet peeve of mine. The term "twinking" is well older than everquest. I remember using it in the late 80s / early 90s as a synonym for munchkin in tabletop role playing. Here is a newsgroup post from 96 at least using the term (I never could find a reference older than that, but its clear from the post that its been in use for a while already):
http://groups.google.com/group/rec....0867f90ef318?lnk=gst&q=twink#0e920867f90ef318
Its an old FRPG term that means "someone that maximizes their character's power well above a normal character by obsessively acquiring stats, gear, and abilities, often through loopholes or exploits in the game system".
I would replace the "origins of the word 'twink'" title with something else. The section isn't really about that anyways. I would use "origins of twinking in WoW" or something else.
Soy
OG
The Enti sword was a grey 2h sword that dropped from a level 73 elite in dragonblight. The sword was a glitch or program error where its item level was toned down to level 1, while still having the stats of a 73 grey weapon. ending up in massive damage from a 19.
The mining bug was another program error which in suppost to give 7 stamina (70 health) it gave 70 stam (700 health). This was a time where almost everyone abused this bug and wsg was unbalance because this was happening at the same time as the enti. So a 1500hp warrior with like 400 attack power could walk over and rend kill you.
The mining bug was another program error which in suppost to give 7 stamina (70 health) it gave 70 stam (700 health). This was a time where almost everyone abused this bug and wsg was unbalance because this was happening at the same time as the enti. So a 1500hp warrior with like 400 attack power could walk over and rend kill you.
Goner
OG
From what I understand the word twink in gaming originally came from the word tweak. I have no details on that though.
I guess all I could suggest is to add how premades have evolved over the years. Meaning everything from the set ups people used to the amount of organization in the brackets community.
Also theres the whole deal with the popularity of the ptr and twinking. I beleive the first ptr twinks participated in was me, dstone, and alcon dueling. Then the next one it really got stepped up to include a tournament (pwntage won) in the STV arena. Then within a few ptrs after that people were doing premades, all star games, and set up arenas on the ptr. This all happened during BC around the time that people were using heavy dodge...
I guess thats another thing you could include if you didn't.. how people could reach up to 80% dodge without exploits and somewhere around 95% with exploits.
I guess all I could suggest is to add how premades have evolved over the years. Meaning everything from the set ups people used to the amount of organization in the brackets community.
Also theres the whole deal with the popularity of the ptr and twinking. I beleive the first ptr twinks participated in was me, dstone, and alcon dueling. Then the next one it really got stepped up to include a tournament (pwntage won) in the STV arena. Then within a few ptrs after that people were doing premades, all star games, and set up arenas on the ptr. This all happened during BC around the time that people were using heavy dodge...
I guess thats another thing you could include if you didn't.. how people could reach up to 80% dodge without exploits and somewhere around 95% with exploits.
Rayekk
OG
Updated to reflect the mining bug, Enti's and the Aldor/Scryer & Shattered Sun exploits.
I appreciate everyone that’s given me more ways that the term “twinking” came to be, but as the wall of text is more of a history of the 19s, I’m not going to include them all. I have made some concessions (making it more wow-specific for one) but I don’t want it to get lost in the shuffle.
Also, should the intorduction of Arena's be covered?
I appreciate everyone that’s given me more ways that the term “twinking” came to be, but as the wall of text is more of a history of the 19s, I’m not going to include them all. I have made some concessions (making it more wow-specific for one) but I don’t want it to get lost in the shuffle.
Also, should the intorduction of Arena's be covered?
sweetbreads
OG
That's my understanding too.
I don't think you should, but I do like that you changed the section title to clear it up a bit.
Rayekk
OG
Soy said:
I'm not familiar with this as an advantage- wasn't that just a title & tabard?
Or did it cause bad blood or something?
*UPDATE*
Ah- I did some research- You used to be able to buy them with just gold and honor, but now they need marks from WSG and AB, placing them firmly out of reach for the 19s. While this sucks on a prestige level, I don’t see it as an ability/gear overpower grandfathering feature like the shoulder/professions, so I’m excluding it.
Thanks for the tip though!
Goner
OG
Cross realm BGs did exactly what you would have expected them to do. Mainly made queue times shorter and the community alot larger.
It was actually a really interesting time to be twinking during though. Because during that time we had no BG forums. So there really was no way of knowing who was all out there. After a while some of us did try to use the realm forums and pvp forums to try and figure out what guilds and who the top guilds were in our BG. But still there was tons of guilds and players that didn't read the realm forums so for months we didn't know if we were the top guild around (turned out we were).
As far as cyclone goes, we ended up using Daggerspine realm forums for our place for the top twinks to start talking and getting organized. There really wasn't too much flaming. It was mostly just a discussion about who was the best around (players and guilds). CL was mostly there from the very beginning trying to figure out what horde guilds were willing to play us in 10v10s. Actually turned out for a while the only one that was, was also on Crushridge and we had already been playing them for months.
Also during this time, there were items that really were status symbols. Most people playing then didn't necessarily know the best set up when they originally made their twink. So the twinks that managed to get the best items like fishing gear and talbar really stood out as top twinks.
It was just before xrealms that battlegroundforums had started. That site really was a huge part of making twinks and gear set ups mainstream. Having a place like that where all twinks could discuss the best gear options really took twinking from something people just did without any thought to be more based on obtaining the perfect gear set up for all situations.
Use whatever you want from that. I know its more then you want for one little section. But that period was probably my favorite in twinking.
It was actually a really interesting time to be twinking during though. Because during that time we had no BG forums. So there really was no way of knowing who was all out there. After a while some of us did try to use the realm forums and pvp forums to try and figure out what guilds and who the top guilds were in our BG. But still there was tons of guilds and players that didn't read the realm forums so for months we didn't know if we were the top guild around (turned out we were).
As far as cyclone goes, we ended up using Daggerspine realm forums for our place for the top twinks to start talking and getting organized. There really wasn't too much flaming. It was mostly just a discussion about who was the best around (players and guilds). CL was mostly there from the very beginning trying to figure out what horde guilds were willing to play us in 10v10s. Actually turned out for a while the only one that was, was also on Crushridge and we had already been playing them for months.
Also during this time, there were items that really were status symbols. Most people playing then didn't necessarily know the best set up when they originally made their twink. So the twinks that managed to get the best items like fishing gear and talbar really stood out as top twinks.
It was just before xrealms that battlegroundforums had started. That site really was a huge part of making twinks and gear set ups mainstream. Having a place like that where all twinks could discuss the best gear options really took twinking from something people just did without any thought to be more based on obtaining the perfect gear set up for all situations.
Use whatever you want from that. I know its more then you want for one little section. But that period was probably my favorite in twinking.
Goner
OG
Well arenas were released in that prepatch before BC. So we had I think a few weeks (maybe over a month) to do arenas before we went through all the changes that BC brought. Arenas were great because it was just something besides wsg that we could do. I think the absolute best part of it was that for the first time you could fight your own faction. Before arenas being released it was well established which alliance guilds were better then which horde guilds (vice versa). But for the first time we could see which were better from the same faction.
During that time CL set up alot of 5v5s against alliance guilds. The main set of games I remember doing was against Team Awesome (fonys guild at the time). That set of games actually extended into BC. Of course the second we found out about clefthides we rushed and got our 10 man them (while we were also helping someone grind rep to get nethercleft as soon as possible). Anyways one night we did games against Team Awesome again and we brought in 5 people with clefthide before they even knew twinks could use it... fun times.
As far as 2v2s and 3v3s I think most of cyclone took it pretty casually. Most people just queued solo and queued with a guildie and had fun. I don't think this was the case in every battlegroup. But in cyclone 2v2s didn't really get competitive til people start rerolling and xfering guilds. Cyclone still remained more based around wsg.
During that time CL set up alot of 5v5s against alliance guilds. The main set of games I remember doing was against Team Awesome (fonys guild at the time). That set of games actually extended into BC. Of course the second we found out about clefthides we rushed and got our 10 man them (while we were also helping someone grind rep to get nethercleft as soon as possible). Anyways one night we did games against Team Awesome again and we brought in 5 people with clefthide before they even knew twinks could use it... fun times.
As far as 2v2s and 3v3s I think most of cyclone took it pretty casually. Most people just queued solo and queued with a guildie and had fun. I don't think this was the case in every battlegroup. But in cyclone 2v2s didn't really get competitive til people start rerolling and xfering guilds. Cyclone still remained more based around wsg.
shanker
OG
from my experience on Mannoroth, the wotlk pre-patch set a fire to players who were serious twinks, but it also hurt the casual twink. many twinks were going into BGs and didn't know why certain players had up to 1000+ more HP than they did, or how they were getting 2 shotted by warriors, etc.
players quit twinking in BGs to get their gathering up, started leveling a player to 80 to get BoA items, much of this thinned out players, premades became near impossible to get going and all came down to luck of the draw pugs.....at least on my BG.
Blizz's and actions and inactions, along with grandfathering has hurt twinking bad on my server, many players were on hold too long to wait and see what blizz was going to do and when they where going to do it. the statement that blizz will not hinder or help twinking is far from true. we have some players that won't BG until hunters scopes are fixed. on the PTR it shows blizz is addressing this, but when? another 2-4 months down the road?
although 7 of my players where affected by changes on patch 3.1, i applaud the patch. Blizz imo, needs one more sweeping patch to correct all the BC enchantible items in 19 and 29 brackets, or require all BC enchants to require the player to be 35+ and the game will be totally cleaned up
players quit twinking in BGs to get their gathering up, started leveling a player to 80 to get BoA items, much of this thinned out players, premades became near impossible to get going and all came down to luck of the draw pugs.....at least on my BG.
Blizz's and actions and inactions, along with grandfathering has hurt twinking bad on my server, many players were on hold too long to wait and see what blizz was going to do and when they where going to do it. the statement that blizz will not hinder or help twinking is far from true. we have some players that won't BG until hunters scopes are fixed. on the PTR it shows blizz is addressing this, but when? another 2-4 months down the road?
although 7 of my players where affected by changes on patch 3.1, i applaud the patch. Blizz imo, needs one more sweeping patch to correct all the BC enchantible items in 19 and 29 brackets, or require all BC enchants to require the player to be 35+ and the game will be totally cleaned up
Adt
OG
Rayekk said:
when Battlegrounds first came out, the top of the brackets were x0. in the post it seemed like you went straight from Battlegrounds being introduced to talking about level x9 twinks. but there was a good chunk of time where x9 was not the top of each bracket, for sure. i remember leveling my alt when battlegrounds first came out and getting into the 31-40 bracket and being totally annoyed by the level 40s running around on their mounts.
does anyone else remember this to be true?
Twinkytoes
OG
Great post, very intertaining and informative. I was through all of that 
Good job man!
Good job man!
shanker
OG
there are issues they had back then that are similar to recent issues/problems blizz has had.
one was AV, players below level were being seen in the BG, also a 40 if he got the AV marks and 800gold for the frost wolf howler (now costs only 50 marks) they were able to ride to the mount. this was discovered when some 60 players who didn't have epic mounts were getting smoked when riding around. not sure if this was a issue with the war mounts also from PVP vendor and was probably happening on the alliance side too. blizz didn't have the mount flagged for requiring epic riding training. from what i understand players were able to be summoned into AV the same way it was done in some hi-end instances and blizz had to address both of those issues.
when my rogue was at 59 twink level i spent 2 months last summer earning all my 70 S2/guardian gear. to my amazement there were alot of pre-BC 60's with T2/3 gear and many with legendary weapons that never loaded BC in this bracket. besides them occasionally mentioning the days when AV's could be near endless compared to today, they mentioned back when one could mine, herb and fish in AV. when i asked fish? i was told that fishing was good in AV and rare items/epics even could be fished up, but that was ended. one player said at times you would go into a AB and there was a macro announce (this is a fishing BG, if you want to PVP que for another AV) reading some of the back and forth talk reminds of some the recent complaints about WG on wow-fourms, with players mining and herbing while WG is going on and lo-level twinks in WG prior to a hot fix by Blizz
when i asked why? many of these 60's didn't want to bust those players with top notch 60 gear. so they kept some players on a WOW account and transferred rest to a WOW/BC account to move those on. reason why is AV has mobs that give XP over time and one would bust to 61 on a BC account.
once called geared, they are now twinks. plus at times if you PVP in the 60-69 brackets for WSG/AB/EOTS they appear, they are far from weak, especially the palidans.
one was AV, players below level were being seen in the BG, also a 40 if he got the AV marks and 800gold for the frost wolf howler (now costs only 50 marks) they were able to ride to the mount. this was discovered when some 60 players who didn't have epic mounts were getting smoked when riding around. not sure if this was a issue with the war mounts also from PVP vendor and was probably happening on the alliance side too. blizz didn't have the mount flagged for requiring epic riding training. from what i understand players were able to be summoned into AV the same way it was done in some hi-end instances and blizz had to address both of those issues.
when my rogue was at 59 twink level i spent 2 months last summer earning all my 70 S2/guardian gear. to my amazement there were alot of pre-BC 60's with T2/3 gear and many with legendary weapons that never loaded BC in this bracket. besides them occasionally mentioning the days when AV's could be near endless compared to today, they mentioned back when one could mine, herb and fish in AV. when i asked fish? i was told that fishing was good in AV and rare items/epics even could be fished up, but that was ended. one player said at times you would go into a AB and there was a macro announce (this is a fishing BG, if you want to PVP que for another AV) reading some of the back and forth talk reminds of some the recent complaints about WG on wow-fourms, with players mining and herbing while WG is going on and lo-level twinks in WG prior to a hot fix by Blizz
when i asked why? many of these 60's didn't want to bust those players with top notch 60 gear. so they kept some players on a WOW account and transferred rest to a WOW/BC account to move those on. reason why is AV has mobs that give XP over time and one would bust to 61 on a BC account.
once called geared, they are now twinks. plus at times if you PVP in the 60-69 brackets for WSG/AB/EOTS they appear, they are far from weak, especially the palidans.
Rayekk
OG
Okay- I think I should clarify something- this history is primarily for the 19s bracket (as that's the experience I can pull from) and any mention of other brackets are simply for generic background. I do appreciate the insights on the other brackets, but unless it directly affects the 19s I’ll most likely not use it.
Adt- so you know when the change from x0 to x9 took place? And other than drive twinks up a bracket, did it have any affect?
I’m still thinking about the addition of 1.12 (Cross-realm BGs ) and 2.0.1 (pre BC Arenas patch), so look for that change soon.
And while it may not seem like they’re sticking to it, Blizzards official stance is that the will no condone or condemn twinking, so other than a possible slight word change, the statement stays.
Thanks again everyone.
*UPDATE*
Info on Areans, Cross-realm BG's and inscripionist off-hands (and they're removal) have been added.
Adt- so you know when the change from x0 to x9 took place? And other than drive twinks up a bracket, did it have any affect?
I’m still thinking about the addition of 1.12 (Cross-realm BGs ) and 2.0.1 (pre BC Arenas patch), so look for that change soon.
And while it may not seem like they’re sticking to it, Blizzards official stance is that the will no condone or condemn twinking, so other than a possible slight word change, the statement stays.
Thanks again everyone.
*UPDATE*
Info on Areans, Cross-realm BG's and inscripionist off-hands (and they're removal) have been added.
shanker
OG
will not condone or condemn twinking, did they said this? it's a generic legalize type statement and it won't go against anything they have done. if they actually said this, no one could hold them accountable them for anything
will not hinder or help twinking, from what i understand this is what they said? this is also open to wide interpertation. IMO based on WOW history, mistakes, gear nerfs/adds/buffs, etc. this is not true, that i will stand behind.
i will give credit to them on not being to stop all exploits, but granderfathering does not help twinking and taking 4-5 months to fix it definitely hinders twinking
sorta like they nerfed +100hp enchant to chest to help making twinking more fair yet hinder it at the same time by leaving +150hp available to players as low as level 1.
drayner's post of they care.....they don't care, awhile back definitely showed how they help/hinder twinking
will not hinder or help twinking, from what i understand this is what they said? this is also open to wide interpertation. IMO based on WOW history, mistakes, gear nerfs/adds/buffs, etc. this is not true, that i will stand behind.
i will give credit to them on not being to stop all exploits, but granderfathering does not help twinking and taking 4-5 months to fix it definitely hinders twinking
sorta like they nerfed +100hp enchant to chest to help making twinking more fair yet hinder it at the same time by leaving +150hp available to players as low as level 1.
drayner's post of they care.....they don't care, awhile back definitely showed how they help/hinder twinking
shanker
OG
Adt said:
i have tried many searches with no luck trying to find info the brackets being 11-20, 21-30, 31-40, 41-50, and 51-60...perhaps. blizz may have changed it fast on beta/PTR? many classes get powers at x0 levels that may have totally outclassed anyone in their bracket entering at low-levels.
11-20 rogues with poisons, hunters and warriors DW weapons, etc
21-30 rogues have kidney shot, warriors intercept, etc
31-40 yeah mounts would be a issue with only 40's having them
41-50 ??? can't think of any
51-60 this would be a major problem with 60's having all endgame spells/abilities. even the best vanilla-wow greens/blues that a 51-59 could equip would leave them way outclassed by T2-3 epic geared 60's. plus the issue of 100% mounts vs 60% mounts
reading stuff from 3 years ago, one thing i did find interesting was talk of que times prior to patch which allowed BGs to have mixed realm players. prior to this que times may have been up to 4 hours and as high as 8 hours. there is also talk of players being 20 or above in 10-19 WSG. i can see this to be quit common and overly possible given que times that long.