I know. I know that Fiery is better.

cooperation

OG
SF/SF, SF/CB, CB/CB. Any way you slice (lawl) it, dual fiery is the #1 enchant combination for rogues. I've heard it every time someone brings up the question when talking about rogues. I know this, I've been shown the numbers, and I recognize this fact. I just can't shake the feeling, though, that for reasons of AP, crit, and dodge, a dual Agility setup is better. So I'm asking you numbers folks out there to show me. What's the PPM rate of Fiery? Why put it in the OH, when your chance to hit with it is reduced? How much crit%, dodge%, and DPS increase does the 30 agility from dual agility provide? Is there any relevance of a fiery/15 agility set? Is a dual agility set practical for FCing? (Yes, I know that rogues don't make the best FCs, but in pugs, when surrounded by skill-starved hunters and an assortment of perplexingly untwinked characters, it might be necessary; and I pug for the most part, because I'm on at weird times.) If not, what? If those of you who are theoretically inclined would be so polite as to show me what a rogue would gain (and lose) from dual fiery as opposed to dual agility, I would be eternally grateful.



Also: is Wingblade any good? It has the second highest DPS of any sword after Shadowfang, but only has 5 AP as opposed to the 12 AP of Cruel Barb. Is there relevance to this weapon, or is it only any good up until a character obtains enough Shadowfangs/Cruel Barbs that it is no longer needed? Again, data would be lovely. :)
 
I dont personally play rogue, well My first twink was an alliance 19 gnome rogue with shadowfang and 9k kills, but I havent played it in years.



I hear that for horde toons, the Wingblade is a decent option for rogue / rogue fights or duels.



And yes I have heard that Fiery Fiery is the best Burst dps option for a 19 rogue, Im not sure . But I think I remember IAccidentallyTwink Posting a detailed Number crunch on the topic, I would ask him about it.
 
Offhand weapons BIS

1st.)shadowfang

2nd.)Battleworn Thrash Blade

3rd.)Wingblade

4th.)Cruel Barb

5th.)Assassins Blade



Yea, I'd say wingblade is ok.



30agi is worth



4.85% chance to dodge

4.07% chance to crit

30 Attack Power

80 Armor



As of today @ level 19



-fixed typo
 
i use CB/WB dual LS and it works wonders for me. The proc has never saved my ass, but you do notice that you can take a few more hits, and it damages as well. With my low crit %, fiery doesn't seem worth it.
 
Fiery is better.

15 Agi is trash.

Fiery gives 4+ DPS.

15 Agi gives 2 DPS.

If you don't have imp SS, 15 Agi is better.

If you don't have imp SS, respec and use Fiery.
 
I'm going to have a go at the number crunching:

I'll be analyzing base stats and upgrades on chardev, using my view of a best-in-slot rogue without BoA's. 1130 hp, 19,86% crit, 220ap, hit capped before weapon enchants. Shadowfang (27% fiery proc) main hand, cruel barb (28% fiery proc) offhand. 2/8/0 spec. There's going to be some simplifications, but this should give a general idea.



Assuming 0,3 sinister strikes per second.

Assuming 6 PPM on fiery.

--> this leads to 0,084 fiery procs per second with sinister strike (0,3*0,28)

--> and 0,08 fiery procs per second with white swings on both weapons (after the miss penalty on white swings)

Assuming no crit chance on fiery

Assuming 34% base dodge, 3% more dodge per 15 agi (chardev fails with dodge chance on 19)



main hand: 33,5 dps before enchants

offhand: 23,5 dps before enchants

sinister strike: 100,5 damage, 30,2 dps before enchants and crits



fiery/fiery

white dps after crits and misses: 54,6

fiery dps: 0,244*40 = 9,8

sinister strike dps: 36,2

total dps against 0% armor: 100,6

total dps against 30% armor: 73,4



armor+dodge mitigation: 52%.



fiery/agi

white dps after crits and misses: 57,3

fiery dps: 0,164*40 = 6,6

sinister strike dps: 37,6

total dps against 0 armor: 101,5

total dps against 30% armor: 73,0



armor+dodge mitigation: 55%.



agi/agi

white dps after crits and misses: 60,2

fiery dps: 0

sinister strike dps: 39,0

total dps against 0 armor: 99,2

total dps against 30% armor: 69,4



armor+dodge mitigation: 58%.



This is as far as I can get.



edit: corrections

edit: added 30% armor targets
 
i use thiefs blade with crusader am i good
 
Fiery MH/Fiery OH



Or agility freaks



Fiery MH/Agility OH
 
You're forgetting that Fiery is unaffected by armor. F/F Wins.
 
So is dodge and crit chance worthless? I mean, sure Fiery may do maximum DPS, but there is little to no premade activity on good ol' Stormstrike. Keeping this in mind (and remembering that I may not get my own heals very often, because I'm not obsessive enough or willing to pay an extra $15 to dual box), would I not be better served by getting a 15 agi sword coupled with either another 15 agi, a LS or a +5 weapon damage dagger for defense, balance, and ambushin' purposes, respectively
 
cooperation said:
So is dodge and crit chance worthless? I mean, sure Fiery may do maximum DPS, but there is little to no premade activity on good ol' Stormstrike. Keeping this in mind (and remembering that I may not get my own heals very often, because I'm not obsessive enough or willing to pay an extra $15 to dual box), would I not be better served by getting a 15 agi sword coupled with either another 15 agi, a LS or a +5 weapon damage dagger for defense, balance, and ambushin' purposes, respectively
Click to expand...



5 DPS > 2 DPS and minimal crit, the dodge is completely worthless.
 
Perhaps I'm on the unlucky side of the math and proc gods...but over the course of several years of testing off and on- my dps goes to total shit with dual fiery /shrug
 
Nit said:
Perhaps I'm on the unlucky side of the math and proc gods...but over the course of several years of testing off and on- my dps goes to total shit with dual fiery /shrug
Click to expand...



its cause you rolled dwarf ><



your white dps takes a hit, but your overall dps gets a big boost
 
Nit said:
Perhaps I'm on the unlucky side of the math and proc gods...but over the course of several years of testing off and on- my dps goes to total shit with dual fiery /shrug
Click to expand...



Then you're doing something terribly wrong.
 
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