Hunter Pet (BT?)
- Thread starter Cthreepo
- Start date
Indexfinger
Veteran
I use Brokentooth on my main, great for caster killing. Gonna use RFK boar for my 39 tho. Its best all around pvp imo and its harder to kill which is nice cuz rezzing pet sucks.
Dramatized
Legend
Imo BT will always be the best pet in a competitive game. As hunter, aside from focusing EFC, your prio targets should always be the casters and BT synergizes the best with that. If you're not min-maxing though it doesn't matter too much.
Indexfinger
Veteran
Some casters have push back negation. Cats are also easily CC’d, always by magi as you wont be speccing BM. Boars charge and stun win out from what ive read and experienced. Nothing like stunning a rogue. A 3rd option i used to 39 with back in the day is wind serpent. The lightning breath gets around armor and it can still hit target when nova’d. Dont think you can go wrong with any of these choices tho.
Dramatized
Legend
fair points but I kinda disagree. mages don't have ice barrier in 39s (have to rely on mana shield and get drained) to avoid pushback, warlocks have nothing. priest/pala will avoid most of the pushback - true, also shaman with eye of the storm. Still, having been on the receiving end of BT attack speed on my priest, it's godly annoying even if only 30% of the attacks give pushback. Also I don't think it's true cats get more CCd than other pets really, if anything prowl + dash are two good counters against cc.
Leaving the pushback aspect aside I think the case for cat over other pets also is strong. the utility provided by prowl + dash (especially if nelf) is superior to that of boar charge (it's not a stun btw). The charge is defo nice vs rogues/warriors but imo hunters have enough tools to deal with those two classes anyway (pvp trinket breaks stun/slow, antivenom/stoneform/orc racial, scatter/deterrence/imp wc/counterattack/FD+trap/flare/hunter's mark). FC druids can just shift the the charge without much trouble.
as for wind serpent i agree its nice with non-physical ranged dmg, i however heard it can't cast lightning breath while moving or some shit? not sure if true but wind serpent defo a solid pet. imo BT > WS (given its not buggy) > boar but all three works good
Outofspace
Sogeking / Deeps
This is mostly wrong. Let's start with the Mage - Mana Shield prevents any damage getting through so it doesn't matter how fast your pet attacks. Warlocks are the one case where you will get some mileage out of BT, this is true. All that's really left are healers with pushback resistance.
Do you have a 39 Hunter? You haven't commented on the fact that cats are extremely squishy and die much faster than boars. It's an easy thing to ignore if you aren't actually playing a Hunter; with a cat you can either spend a lot of time rezzing your pet and refilling or just give up and leave it dead. Prowl sucks because of the slow, you can use Dash but now you've nerfed Dash and used the CD. If you want to hide your pet just dismiss it.
Nothing is superior to Boar Charge, which also buffs the things next attack, giving you a bigger alpha strike. On top of that you get a stout pet that can actually survive on it's own. You didn't even mention using it on Priests, which is one of the most crucial applications, being that they can dispel Conc and usually run at you to land a Fear. Also, getting a shift out of a Druid for zero Mana is solid gold.
The idea that Hunters have 'enough' tools to deal with melee also seems like a thin analysis. That's like saying Viper is 'enough' to deal with any caster. Believe me you don't have enough tools vs a competent Rogue who can Prep or a Disarming Warrior who fears at the right time. And of course it's not about 1v1 anyway, Hunters are usually engaging multiple targets at once and that extra root from the Boar is priceless.
If I had to pick a runner up it would probably be Windserpent, which is the best pet vs other Hunters for it's damage and range. It totally shuts down Cheetah and forces the engagement and it's harder to fear since it's further away. Yes it stops moving for a moment to cast LB, it's really not a problem. Still though, it's super squishy and people know it - it gets slapped around hard. Personally I can't stand to play with a pet that is killed that easily, I have both WS and BT and every time I run them it's night and day in terms of uptime compared to boar.
Dramatized
Legend
wowowowow lets unpack this
"Mana sield prevents dmg so attack speed doesnt matter" yes this is true and I didn't mean to portray it any other way. My point is: by having BT you're more likely to force the mage to pop mana shield compared to having a boar hitting the mage. So the mage is basically left with a choice: 1) pop mana shield with viper ticking while pet + ranged damage is soaking mana from the shield or 2) don't pop mana shield and never get a cast off because of the pushback. If mage chooses 1) he's oom in 10 second, if mage chooses 2) he's not gonna be able to cast anything but rank 1 frostbolts. Boars have 2x as slow attack speed as BT, right? Just means the mage wont find himself in the dilemma above, instead he'll just freecast poly on you without having to waste any mana.
I didn't address it directly no, but implicitly I did by saying cats have better utility with prowl + dash. Don't take this the wrong way but if your pet is dying over and over it's probably not a pet issue but rather a player issue in that it sound like you're not micromanaging pet abilities and pet positioning. If your pet-playstyle consists of just sending your pet into 3 warriors - then yes boar is probably better due to its tankyness.
And again you display that you just don't know anything about pet management by saying "prowl sucks because of the slow". You should obviously bind cancelaura prowl, and whenever necessary you just cancel it and your pet isn't slowed anymore. And there are situations where you want your pet to be prowled, for instance when you send it on EFC druid in mid and you don't want the pet to be visible to his teammates because it would get ripped in seconds. By having it follow him in prowl you can both keep track of the enemy druid + not worry about anyone killing it.
Again, if you *need* your pet to survive on "its own" you're simply not managing your pet well enough. I hate to say it but if Priests usually "run at you and land a fear" you're just way out of position; if you engage with a priest and allow him to get 8 yards close to you that's just poor positioning and/or poor judgement when to pick a fight. Like i don't even understand how I'm having an argument with someone who feels like he needs boar charge in order to not get feared by priests.
If you can't disengage from a rogue or warrior 1v1, I'm sorry but that again sounds like more of a player issue to me. Hunters hardcounters rogue in ever possible way and warriors you can just trap and cheetah away. And yes, my point is that it's not about 1v1s to begin with - you just need enough tools to disengage from midfarming rogues or warriors and the hunter toolkit (without boar charge) does that fine.
Once again, if your pet ends up dying you might wanna take a look at yourself before you universally declare that BT or WS can't survive for shit.
"Mana sield prevents dmg so attack speed doesnt matter" yes this is true and I didn't mean to portray it any other way. My point is: by having BT you're more likely to force the mage to pop mana shield compared to having a boar hitting the mage. So the mage is basically left with a choice: 1) pop mana shield with viper ticking while pet + ranged damage is soaking mana from the shield or 2) don't pop mana shield and never get a cast off because of the pushback. If mage chooses 1) he's oom in 10 second, if mage chooses 2) he's not gonna be able to cast anything but rank 1 frostbolts. Boars have 2x as slow attack speed as BT, right? Just means the mage wont find himself in the dilemma above, instead he'll just freecast poly on you without having to waste any mana.
I didn't address it directly no, but implicitly I did by saying cats have better utility with prowl + dash. Don't take this the wrong way but if your pet is dying over and over it's probably not a pet issue but rather a player issue in that it sound like you're not micromanaging pet abilities and pet positioning. If your pet-playstyle consists of just sending your pet into 3 warriors - then yes boar is probably better due to its tankyness.
And again you display that you just don't know anything about pet management by saying "prowl sucks because of the slow". You should obviously bind cancelaura prowl, and whenever necessary you just cancel it and your pet isn't slowed anymore. And there are situations where you want your pet to be prowled, for instance when you send it on EFC druid in mid and you don't want the pet to be visible to his teammates because it would get ripped in seconds. By having it follow him in prowl you can both keep track of the enemy druid + not worry about anyone killing it.
Again, if you *need* your pet to survive on "its own" you're simply not managing your pet well enough. I hate to say it but if Priests usually "run at you and land a fear" you're just way out of position; if you engage with a priest and allow him to get 8 yards close to you that's just poor positioning and/or poor judgement when to pick a fight. Like i don't even understand how I'm having an argument with someone who feels like he needs boar charge in order to not get feared by priests.
If you can't disengage from a rogue or warrior 1v1, I'm sorry but that again sounds like more of a player issue to me. Hunters hardcounters rogue in ever possible way and warriors you can just trap and cheetah away. And yes, my point is that it's not about 1v1s to begin with - you just need enough tools to disengage from midfarming rogues or warriors and the hunter toolkit (without boar charge) does that fine.
Once again, if your pet ends up dying you might wanna take a look at yourself before you universally declare that BT or WS can't survive for shit.
Outofspace
Sogeking / Deeps
Yeah it's a player issue ha. That's honestly hilarious. It would be nice to able to talk about these things without devolving to personal attacks. If you don't think I can play Hunter then yeah don't waste your time in this conversation, but I'm going to carry on assuming you can be reasonable here.
Everything you've mentioned has been very WSG centric so I'm going to leave aside the fact that in AB you should be dual node guarding. Hopefully we can at least agree that it doesn't matter how good you are at micro, a pet with more HP and Armor is going to survive more. Even with Starcraft level APM, you can't somehow make a cat live longer than a boar. You have to be more protective of your pet to keep it alive, basically leaving it at your side more, withdrawing it from fights earlier, etc.
I like to be more aggressive with my pet, and I think the more time it spends harassing enemies the better. I don't find a pet very useful if it has to remain by my side most of the time. Maybe that's just a difference in play style but at a certain point yeah, a boar will have caused more disruption than a cat due to the gap in time they spend interacting with the enemy.
Dramatized
Legend
You asked me if I had a 39 hunter, clearly implying I couldn't possible have played one given how clueless I seem about them, no? Then you complain about me lowering the conversation's standard...
And yes my POV is probably too centered around WSG since I don't play AB unless forced to. I realize my last reply came off more "learn to play" than I intended and you're right in that all else equal a boar will probably survive longer than a cat but I just feel like it's impossible to measure given that you can't just look at pure hp/armor numbers and ignore the utility provided by prowl and dash.
Outofspace
Sogeking / Deeps
That was not my implication. I said, "You haven't commented on the fact that cats are extremely squishy and die much faster than boars. It's an easy thing to ignore if you aren't actually playing a Hunter; with a cat you can either spend a lot of time rezzing your pet and refilling or just give up and leave it dead." Experience is important but I personally think people have valuable opinions even if they don't play a class, and was asking honestly so that I could best tailor a response.
Regarding Prowl/Dash, I'm still unsure on exactly what situations you find it so useful. I suppose the one you described where you send it after a Druid is nice, but I'm not convinced you couldn't do pretty much the same thing with a boar. I send mine after Rogues, Druids, and other stealthed Nelfs all the time, out them and return alive.
Dramatized
Legend
I'll list a few that comes to mind.
One is when you're carrying the flag on horde/ally roof and you see on your tracking that enemies inc. You can then kite from roof to graveyard without the risk of enemies detecting your pet on banana (when you drop down from roof your pet will run down banana, into flagroom). That way the enemies have no idea if/when I commit from roof to gy. Sure the same can be done with dismissing your pet but you don't always have time for that.
One is, and it relates to what I said earlier, general CC protection. If your pet can't be seen until it actually starts hitting the enemy, it can't be CCd as easily - druids can't hibernate from 30 yards, mages can't r1 frostbolt, warlocks can't fear from 20 yards etc.
One is sending your pet in stealth on other hunters while they have cheetah active - that way they can't pre-cancel cheetah before taking damage. This is especially useful when another hunter is chasing you, that way he'll literally run into your stealthed pet.
One is if you're nelf and you wanna set up a surprise attack you yourself can sit in shadowmeld and your pet can prowl. Often if I realize my team won't be able to kill EFC in mid I'll try get to enemy roof before him and then smeld + prowl on top of roof. When my team starts pushing banana it's common that EFC stays back deep on roof and I'm able to open on him alone. Also I can wait on ally ramp for enemy druid to approach and then trap him as he autoruns up ramp (i don't play with scatter so that makes the element of surprise from smeld + prowl is very valuable).
Scrubhuntin
Grandfathered
dismiss pet.. you have plenty of time. stealthed pet isnt reaching someone anytime fast so half the time your pet will just be walking around stealthed trying to catch up to whoever you sent it to. sorry I played with BT primarily on my first hunter and soge is right in that your pet gets killed far faster and more often than boar. Yes it is a testament to how annoying it is to casters, but i'd venture to say me having mana and being in the fight is more annoying than sitting off to the side rezzing a pet 17 times a bg.
not saying anybody has to switch off pets because having multiple pets = multiple types of utility usage imo. Just saying in terms of on paper theory craft and actual in game experience are always two very different things.
not saying anybody has to switch off pets because having multiple pets = multiple types of utility usage imo. Just saying in terms of on paper theory craft and actual in game experience are always two very different things.
Dramatized
Legend
you two make it sound like BT is made out of glass while boars have some matrix type survivability. Since melee won't be the ones killing the pet, armor is largely irrelevant (at least for cats because of dash). Boars have a hp modifier of 1.04; cats have a modifier of 0.98. Are you telling me that the 0,06 hp modifier is what makes you not having to ress your pet 17 times each bg?
My BT dies once every 10 game because I don't go mongo with it for no reason but rather use it selectively; pets do so little damage in classic anyway so speaking of some "uptime" from a damage point of view is useless. If your pet ends up dying way more than you expect you're just playing too aggressively with it.
you're trading dash + prowl + claw + 1.0 atk speed for 1 sec root (useless vs BoF btw) and some marginal pet survivability.
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