How would you balance PvP

[Clöåk]

Not saying that removing shot-on-the-run wouldn't make for less silly animations and adress part of the problem, but seeing the way MoP is going (no more minimum range, no more Guns for PC Gnomes) I don't see this happening, no matter how many top-Arena teams contain Hunters.

Wait...what? So they're removing melee classes best (reads only) advantage against Hunters in PVP? Great...

 

[Shft]

Well noodle, you aren't gonna kill any good healer except ...lol..... a druid without an interrupt unless your bite crits. Second, how fair is it when my regrowths hit 180s with an SoJ as balance? like ffs that's so useless

 

[Damaku]

thanks shfthappens for that concise list of class changes. if everybody could contribute something like this or even for their own class what troubles them vs. others then we would have a really good perspective to start suggesting changes.



i don't think a 30% damage reduction is necessary for warriors. we are already getting a 5% nerf for fury in 4.3 lets see how that goes first.

(i am obviously biase though).

 

[Lithogen]

[font=times new roman,times,serif]I think the separation of PvP and PvE would fix a lot of things. That and get some developers who play the game instead of viewing things in a bottle and relying on pure data. Sometimes you gotta get your hands dirty and see for yourself.[/font]

 

[Shft]

thanks shfthappens for that concise list of class changes. if everybody could contribute something like this or even for their own class what troubles them vs. others then we would have a really good perspective to start suggesting changes.



i don't think a 30% damage reduction is necessary for warriors. we are already getting a 5% nerf for fury in 4.3 lets see how that goes first.

(i am obviously biase though).

Idk they can pretty much global me as a druid. 30% may be too high, but they definitely need a damage nerf to go along with any change to their ability to stay on target.

 

[yasueh]

3 words:



Open Source WoW.



The players would do in a month what Bliz have been unable to for years.

 

[Eliot]

To fix paladin just make exorcism have a CD of ~3 seconds until a higher level, nerf heals a bit, and decrease HoJ stun a bit.



Maybe for hunter make it so that you can't "run and gun" until you learn it at a higher level.

 

[Lithogen]

3 words:



Open Source WoW.



The players would do in a month what Bliz have been unable to for years.

[font=times new roman,times,serif]it kinda already is. All you need to do is set up your own private server, then go in and edit things. The only problem is that it's hard to find a private server that isn't ran by a biased admin and wants to nerf what he didn't like in WoW into the ground. Then you have the group that wants to "tinker" without a plan and screw up what doesn't need fixing.[/font]

 

[Tinkerton]

Wait...what? So they're removing melee classes best (reads only) advantage against Hunters in PVP? Great...

So far, yes. As it makes 'sense' if they (de facto) remove the melee weapon slot for Hunters (and Missile/wand slot for other classes) this will likely go live, it just remains to be seen wether Hunters keep Disengage etc. despite of no real reason for it anymore.



But frankly this topic is a bit stale, TI did an expansive suggestion for low-level PvP about half a year ago (ask Kore). Of course theorycrafting has its merits, but I'm 98% sure Blizz will just say (if it would lead to a Blue answer in the first place - so far they avoid answering questions about real issues like the plague) that Cataclysm will...er, I mean, MoP will fix it and so everybody should just buy their Hopium like good little lemmings.



Open Source WoW... there are rumors about Titan: http://blogs.raiders...an-speculation/



EDIT:

as far as 'game cure' goes: they would improve imo the game a lot by lowering the minimum level of non-Instance Quests by 5 levels.

That way ppl could pick up Quests that have some challenge in them, people could finish zones with their mandatory linear Quests without 'out-Greying', and the impact of Heirlooms would be less, without them having to change much . As a bonus, that should allow for the Stonetalon Headgear for Hordies at 20.



(ideally, they'd get rid of Heirlooms, noding XP and other death-by-XP mechanics, and sell XP-Elixers in an item shop that accepts both cash and Justice Points for the 'end-cap ASAP'-crowd)

 

[24nubsdie]

So far, yes. As it makes 'sense' if they (de facto) remove the melee weapon slot for Hunters (and Missile/wand slot for other classes) this will likely go live, it just remains to be seen wether Hunters keep Disengage etc. despite of no real reason for it anymore.



But frankly this topic is a bit stale, TI did an expansive suggestion for low-level PvP about half a year ago (ask Kore). Of course theorycrafting has its merits, but I'm 98% sure Blizz will just say (if it would lead to a Blue answer in the first place - so far they avoid answering questions about real issues like the plague) that Cataclysm will...er, I mean, MoP will fix it and so everybody should just buy their Hopium like good little lemmings.



Open Source WoW... there are rumors about Titan: http://blogs.raiders...an-speculation/

no reason to disengage? i would certainly like to disengage to stop taking damage from melee classes.

also about low level pvp i do not think any mmo have ever perfectly balanced pvp before e.g warhammer spam of crowd control.

 

[Arknoodle]

Well noodle, you aren't gonna kill any good healer except ...lol..... a druid without an interrupt unless your bite crits. Second, how fair is it when my regrowths hit 180s with an SoJ as balance? like ffs that's so useless

Yes this is true, but lets be honest, how many good healers are there? Honestly, and in BG's I'm not trying to down healers I'm there to put an assload of pressure on them so they can't heal anyone else

Problem is druid heals are so stupid OP at endgame they have to be UP for us.



FB crits ftw. <3

 

[yasueh]

[font=times new roman,times,serif]it kinda already is. All you need to do is set up your own private server, then go in and edit things. The only problem is that it's hard to find a private server that isn't ran by a biased admin and wants to nerf what he didn't like in WoW into the ground. Then you have the group that wants to "tinker" without a plan and screw up what doesn't need fixing.[/font]

Well you can't really do it with the small sample of just 1 server (especially private/not from a baseline), but if you logged combat in BGs for all the realms, you would be able to construct a very accurate picture of which abilities, used by which classes, give them an advantage over certain other classes.



You could even simulate how the changes you might make would have affected all those fights, before doing something as stupid as making them active on the servers, when they could simply be too much.





If you put class balancing into the hands of the sort of people who are behind 3rd party apps like RAWR or WoWCardioRaid, they could do amazing things with the data they can collect for PVP too.



At the moment they can't make any fixes (like they can improve PvE by telling people exactly which spec/gear/etc. is best for a specific purpose), because they can't do anything to change class balance, and have no interest in doing it for a small number of private servers.

 

[Noxal]

just get rid of hunters in this game already



they've had soooo many chances to fix hunters in this game, and they have fucked it up every single time. they just completely redesigned the hunter class for this last expansion, and sure enough, they're STILL imbalanced at low levels, and STILL garbage in endgame pvp



just give up already. nobody likes hunters at any level. get rid of them

YES!

 

[Arknoodle]

Shift, Why do you say Druid heals are underpowered? Joo wrong bro.

 

[Deadvulcano]

[...]

If you put class balancing into the hands of the sort of people who are behind 3rd party apps like RAWR or WoWCardioRaid, they could do amazing things with the data they can collect for PVP too.

This. Basically, the development team needs to learn math. The amount of data they have should statistically narrow down changes for EVERY level range.



-But don't remove huntards. Everyone would realize how ridiculously overpowered mages are.



Anyways blizzard can't do it with this system. For their sake I hope that Titan follows gw2 into the next generation. Always sad to see talent get absorbed into business and controlled by selfish personalities.

 

[IllyBillyn]

It's really not hunter damage that is the problem. If our damage was cut 50% we would still kite melee to death without being touched, and we are currently not able to dps down a healer of equal gear except by lining up scatter and intimidation or a pet ability.



The problem with hunters is the ability to maintain our damage at fairly high levels while moving, and our massive kiting ability. WoW is designed around the idea that ranged classes are all supposed to kite melee, and that the lowered damage done while kiting is very approximately equal to the damage done by a melee during the time he is on the caster. As a hunter, our damage while kiting is absurdly high, and our kiting ability is too strong. Both of these would need to be addressed to balance hunters.



I'd reduce kiting ability by pushing disengage back until a higher level. Alternatively, I'd take the cooldown off concussive shot but give it a 1.5 second cast time. This would make kiting a little more like a frost mage, where we have to stop and cast in order to continue kiting.



As for reducing damage while kiting, removing moving autoshot would be plenty. Another alternative would be reducing baseline focus regen to 0 rather than 4 focus/second, making it imposible to keep using shots while kiting.

I totally agree. Alternatives that also wouldn't significantly affect PvE damage (important if Blizz is actually going to think about it) but would balance the class somewhat for lower level pvp

1) reduce the range on concussive shot to 20 -- the long range on this effect is way OP for controlling movement across midfield

2) increase miss chance to 25% for moving shots (this is not the best solution for f2p so long as eye patch available or ally only, but would force some overall tradeoff between hit and dmg)

 

[Preeztess]

Nuff said.

 

[Clöåk]

So far, yes. As it makes 'sense' if they (de facto) remove the melee weapon slot for Hunters (and Missile/wand slot for other classes) this will likely go live, it just remains to be seen wether Hunters keep Disengage etc. despite of no real reason for it anymore.

I saw the news on the front page shortly after that post (I don't read the front page much as you can tell). Taking away the melee slot & removing min range makes a lot more sense than what I originally thought. So if I'm understanding that correctly, no more melee for hunters, but no more throwing knives for me (as an example)? Lame. That's fine for 98% of the time, right up until you find yourself in a situation where you need it. Ugh.



I don't see them removing disengage though, without any melee, Hunters would need it more than ever.

 

[Ðoom]

in next expansion the hunters will loose their weapons and that probably means that if F2P twinks still exsists then in my case i'll loose

6 agility

6 stamina

8critt rating

^ that is not much but it might do something.



But IMO you whine to much about hunters being OP "ofc they are" but still no one forces you not to play one... but the 30% increased dmg with explosive shot is retarded.



-Hunt

 

[Monkman]

in next expansion the hunters will loose their weapons and that probably means that if F2P twinks still exsists then in my case i'll loose

6 agility

6 stamina

8critt rating

^ that is not much but it might do something.



But IMO you whine to much about hunters being OP "ofc they are" but still no one forces you not to play one... but the 30% increased dmg with explosive shot is retarded.



-Hunt

If you don't want to get facerolled by a team of 10 hunters, you are forced to roll one. Yes, 10 hunters would be quite rare, but I've been in plenty of games with 6, 7, even 8 hunters on one side.



I played a game on my holy priest against at team with 6 hunters, 3 paladins and a rogue. Needless to say we lost 0 - 3, because the hunters can conc shot anyone running across mid til his 5 other hunters catch up and kill us while we cant get close (we only had 1-2 hunters).



Saying "no one forces you to NOT play a hunter so quit whining" is just ignorant. It's not the fact that we aren't forced to NOT play one, it's the fact that we are at a severe disadvantage for choosing not to roll one because of how OP they are.