EU+US How NOT to form and run a twink guild

[Zatox]

I've seen this fairly often. It's usually the half dozen or so people who start thinking they're l33t (lol) and don't bother to cultivate the newer or less known people in the guild. As long as they have enough to get their little premade going they don't care - like they can't stand to take some losses helping out others, or not topping meters every match. Or the GM and officers are MIA most of the time, or don't respond. And comms/voice? Haha

And let's be honest, some of them like hiding the fact that they're using various scripts/hacks with their buddies.

If you thought Rated is bad, IME twinks are some of the most self-centered, insular twats in the game.

While I understand what you're saying, it's not a good players job to make all the bad players around them good.

When I first started WoW, much like anyone else, I was awful. There were like 15 abilities by the time you were level 19 and so many other little things you had to learn that most players that started ~3-5 years ago never really had to experience in the current games state. You know what pushed me to get better? Elitist players.

They were the best the bracket had to offer and even though they were assholes to new comers and bad players, that's who I aspired to be like. I paid attention to them, studied their gameplay habits. Watched their YouTube videos, watched their YouTube videos again. Watched MORE YouTube videos, but players from high lee brackets or end game. I learned to distinguish the traits in their gameplay that made them good. I strived to emulate that, started refining my own gameplay.

Over time, I got better, and they recognized me for that by not treating me like shit, they accepted me.



The point here is that, it's not OUR job to make you(or anyone) a better player. That's YOUR job. Follow in the footsteps of all the good twinks that came before you, and stop expecting a handout from the people who took the steps necessary to get where they are today.

 

[Kismet]

Not to pick on you specifically as I do not fancy harassing new members but what is holding you back from stepping up?

You too @Walrusbreath ?

I'm pretty much never playing WoW on a regular basis. I have been playing since BC so as you can imagine there isn't a ton drawing me into playing WoW erry day. I come for a period of time and love twinking but eventually it will get a bit stale and I'll find something else to play. Not really reliable but maybe guides are the best way to help new players long term?

The point here is that, it's not OUR job to make you(or anyone) a better player. That's YOUR job. Follow in the footsteps of all the good twinks that came before you, and stop expecting a handout from the people who took the steps necessary to get where they are today.

If you want an army you have to train them or lose. If we want a larger community we all need to help out

 

[Walrusbreath]

While I understand what you're saying, it's not a good players job to make all the bad players around them good.

When I first started WoW, much like anyone else, I was awful. There were like 15 abilities by the time you were level 19 and so many other little things you had to learn that most players that started ~3-5 years ago never really had to experience in the current games state. You know what pushed me to get better? Elitist players.

They were the best the bracket had to offer and even though they were assholes to new comers and bad players, that's who I aspired to be like. I paid attention to them, studied their gameplay habits. Watched their YouTube videos, watched their YouTube videos again. Watched MORE YouTube videos, but players from high lee brackets or end game. I learned to distinguish the traits in their gameplay that made them good. I strived to emulate that, started refining my own gameplay.

Over time, I got better, and they recognized me for that by not treating me like shit, they accepted me.



The point here is that, it's not OUR job to make you(or anyone) a better player. That's YOUR job. Follow in the footsteps of all the good twinks that came before you, and stop expecting a handout from the people who took the steps necessary to get where they are today.

It's not a matter of "handouts" or getting a free ride and not putting in effort. We all know you only get better as a player with practice on a class or spec and XP in matches. No one can do that for you.

It's simply having a guild where members are active and willing to do the normal things that guilds do - like grouping up to get better or faster q's, answering questions, mage ports to central hubs to set their hearth, enchants or pots etc. that are difficult to find or buy, and so on. Normal guild stuff, not necessarily carries or training a rank noob into some great player.

They act like they don't want new people to get well-geared and learn; it might challenge their little hierarchy that they've set up for themselves.

Allyb - I'm talking about the older or existing guilds that post here from say AP or BH. As for stepping up, I made a guild on AP months ago after quitting AP Twinks, mainly for guild perks on my own toons not specifically to recruit new members. If I got new people fine; if not no biggie. I wasn't much invested in twinking during WoD since I was playing endgame/Rated more. Now I'm F2P atm.

BTW, I have to say their GM Timeforsaper is/was a decent GM. I still have a few friends there, but it was the clique of asshats (like have been described in this thread) that ruined that guild IMO.

 

[Kismet]

We have an entire "Guides" section. http://xpoff.com/forums/guides.97/
Guides are also stickied in each in subforum.
Granted, some of the guides may not be up to date but they are very close.

The challenge is, many people want others to do things for them rather than step up and do things for themselves or for others. Now, I am saying that what is happening in your case.

Definitely already aware of guides

What exactly do these players want done for them? Does stepping up mean making yet another guild for 29's or attempting to rez guilds where no one is ever online? Because <GG Twinks> is dead most of the time, I also asked another guy about his small twink guild which was more or less his bank tab. That person also told me about <Holy Crit> which again no one was online. And does anyone recruit server side? or just wait for people to find this site or somehow spark their own motivation to make a twink?

Doesn't really sound like more guilds to group people up is the answer unless said guild is truly striving to be the best. Also sorta hard to be a great GM without a 110 server side for farming mats, bags, etc, agreed?

 

[Maievh]

So, is there any somewhat active guilds around on The Maelstrom EU? Looking for one

 

[Walrusbreath]

I know what you're saying re the first part, but you always try to turn things on their heads to blame some imaginary "responsibility" meme. On one hand, you say the days of people joining together in decent, cooperative guilds (like MMORPGs have always been) is "long gone"; on the other it's the fault of those who don't like to do things for themselves. Can't have it both ways. You sound like you take your cues in life from Fox News.

What I think has changed: the tiny attention span/phone mentality and extreme narcissism that we didn't have so much of in the first years of WoW, when you got into MMORPGs for the adventure and the long-term playstyle. Meeting other players, doing things together was considered a fun way to spend your game time. Which meant that you'd have to consider other's needs as well as your own. Depth and achievement, not "the world revolves around MY navel...waaaa" and hiding behind the screen like someone who'd rather send a text/picture than dial and talk to a real person.

Because nowadays relating and interacting is too hard, right? It's more effort to tell someone in Trade where the vendor is, how to get to Pandaria, or what's the best stat for his spec, than to fuck off and Google it, noob?

When the biggest MMORPG starts putting selfies in the game, and the Lead Class Dev plays WoW PvP on a goddamned Wacom tablet with a pen (not a mouse), you know things have gone down the sewer. That's not lack of responsibility per se - it's dumbing down the game, self-centeredness and voyeurism.

 

[Dreams]

You know what pushed me to get better? Elitist players.

I had the exact same mentality when I first started twinking. In fact my story very closely resembles yours.
But in my experience at least 95% of players simply don't have that mentality. They don't get driven to get better simply by not being the best.
You can try to force that mentality onto people or you can try to explain it to them all you want, but (again - in my experience) it simply doesn't work. If they weren't like that from the beginning they won't ever be.

So in a perfect world I would agree with you that "it's not a good players job to make all the bad players around them good", but the world ain't perfect.

 

[Zatox]

I had the exact same mentality when I first started twinking. In fact my story very closely resembles yours.
But in my experience at least 95% of players simply don't have that mentality. They don't get driven to get better simply by not being the best.
You can try to force that mentality onto people or you can try to explain it to them all you want, but (again - in my experience) it simply doesn't work. If they weren't like that from the beginning they won't ever be.

So in a perfect world I would agree with you that "it's not a good players job to make all the bad players around them good", but the world ain't perfect.

Yeah I'm aware it doesn't work like that for everyone, and my post probably comes off as harsh. I'm not saying to not give advice if nicely asked, but it's not a good players job to take time out of their day to teach players the most basic of concepts(like awareness).

Several times over the years, I've considered writing up a guide on the actual mechanics of being a good player. But ive never felt like it'd be worth all the effort, because like you said, most people just don't get it.

 

[Kageroo]

Yep.. Most of them just dont care and play game for fun, even if they lose 90% of BGs...

When I used to play World of Tanks I was statistically better than 99,5% people on server. I introduced few friends to this game and tried to teach them about map awareness, what to do, what not to do, etc... They just did not care and wanted to play the game even if they loose 60% of battles with really bad stats. Majority of players in this game sucks, so it was not only my friends. Pretty sure it is same in WoW, people just dont care....

Not everyone is elitist, more like only few % of people are elitists and rests are scrubs who dont care...