Horde EZ mode.
- Thread starter Nuster
- Start date
Aradiel
Legend
Mail is balanced. Obviously alliance mail wearers use the eyepatch, they need the hit. Horde mail wearers get more hit on wrist and boots. If both are in BoAs, and horde use Demon Band rings, both are hit capped, and all stats are very similar. If you're talking about your average lazy noob, then I have seen people on both sides without items in every slot, without mounts, with res sickness and without a clue. Horde regularly have half their team hunters, just as alliance do.
Again, balancing this game at level 20 is not really a priority for Blizz. While I'm sure they knew people would start playing 20s and only 20s, their primary goal is making money. The free unlimited trial is to get people interested in the game and making them money, nothing more. They want new players to have an enjoyable experience, sure, but they also want to leave them wanting more. As for previously disillusioned players that gave up the game for whatever reason, this gives them a chance to come back to the game, and possibly decide to start paying for it again. That is the goal. Not creating a sub-class of permanently non-paying users that will never make them a cent, even if they knew such people would be an unintended consequence.
Maybe horde just don't like to fish. Four alliance characters on these forums have a sea turtle. Zero horde do.
Again, balancing this game at level 20 is not really a priority for Blizz. While I'm sure they knew people would start playing 20s and only 20s, their primary goal is making money. The free unlimited trial is to get people interested in the game and making them money, nothing more. They want new players to have an enjoyable experience, sure, but they also want to leave them wanting more. As for previously disillusioned players that gave up the game for whatever reason, this gives them a chance to come back to the game, and possibly decide to start paying for it again. That is the goal. Not creating a sub-class of permanently non-paying users that will never make them a cent, even if they knew such people would be an unintended consequence.
Maybe horde just don't like to fish. Four alliance characters on these forums have a sea turtle. Zero horde do.
Shft
Legend
I <3 fishing. Personally I would prob have the turtle by now If I hadn't rerolled AP. I DO NOT regret the reroll though. Got a LFH on 2 guys this sunday. One within the first half hour, and one within the last 8ish minutes. While some others gave up halfway in like they always do, I reap the benefits.
Also: my new nickname is the Luck Machine, if you're horde you probably know why
Also: my new nickname is the Luck Machine, if you're horde you probably know why
Nuster
Legend
If you looked into my math on the first post you might have noticed that the gear between the two classes are pretty similar. I kept asking myself how did chardev come up with a 20 agility increase for the Rouge and only 10 for the hunter. The difference in raw agility is only 9 so I dont know if chardev is messed up or if I am missing something but that should really only be 12-13 agility for Rogue. This would change the numbers a little bit for the crit (2.55%-1.53%) and dodge chance (3.86%-2.32%).
I will reflect this in the original post.
I will reflect this in the original post.
Nuster
Legend
Jdoring said:
I have made the googles for 2 or 3 of my f2p toons and can say I will never make them again. Alchemey or Inscription offer more stat points and 10-15 min of farming herbs grants you enough mats to last quite awile.
Inscription gives 5 to stamina and 5 to agility/intellect/spirit/strength
Alchemy gives 6 to stats? i think with mixology and 12 to strength? Not to mention if you have the swiftness potion recipe. (my rogue has this and keeps at least 2 stacks on him all the time.)
Nuster
Legend
Aradiel said:
I dont ever expect 20-24 bracket to be balanced and I dont think anyone else does. We play with what were given, thats cool with me. Nothing makes me happier then playing the underdog and earning my wins.
Off topic: Adriel, your toon is Kale? Thats some pretty sweet old school gear you have (no sarcasim). I love the mace I remember earning that on my very first ret pally way back when. However to go with the oldschool gear you need to ditch the /afk macro and go with the /bubblehearth macro. /grin
lloydganks1
Legend
i actually registered another account on this website because reading through this thread made me cringe so ****ing hard.
the faction gear imbalance at 20 does not apply to BiS slot pieces. the faction gear imbalance at 20 applies to the average "twink". as someone pointed out previously in the thread, the issue is that any random idiot can make an alliance twink, get flat-out superior gear that is LITERALLY HANDED TO YOU THROUGH INSTANCE QUESTS, and proceed to battlegrounds with a massive advantage.
this is why every. single. pub. game. in. the. 20. bracket. is imbalanced in favor of alliance. it has become a self-fulfilling prophecy in which the tidal wave of faceroll has gradually built enough momentum to reach the point where would-be "twinks" are rolling alliance not only for the inherent gear advantage, but specifically because the "twink" ratio is so skewed in favor of that faction.
you don't see every single battleground containing 90% alliance ret paladins and hunters because they can wear eyepatch. you see every single battleground containing 90% alliance ret paladins and hunters because these toons resulted from the above-mentioned self-fulfilling prophecy: these players want to play overpowered classes, so they roll ret paladins and hunters. these same players want to play on an overpowered faction, so they roll their "twinks" on the side that already has a massive advantage in every game. (these same players also want to have superior racials, so they all roll human. if you ever want a laugh, start keeping track of the % of alliance players in battlegrounds who are human). and thus you have the current make-up of this bracket. it's that simple, guys.
i'm tired of seeing this discussion (both gear and faction imbalance issues) go back and forth with the same idiotic, empty arguments. i've seen some people that i otherwise really respect repeating some pretty stupid shit about what "they think" are the "real problems" in this bracket. i'm sorry, but if you can't understand that this is how this bracket's faction imbalances work, you are an idiot, and that's just the way it is. and you guys can go ahead and ban me again for saying it, since apparently it's not OK to call people out for being complete morons, but it's OK to repeatedly make stupid, blatantly trolly 24 threads and not get your IP banned.
- cotus
the faction gear imbalance at 20 does not apply to BiS slot pieces. the faction gear imbalance at 20 applies to the average "twink". as someone pointed out previously in the thread, the issue is that any random idiot can make an alliance twink, get flat-out superior gear that is LITERALLY HANDED TO YOU THROUGH INSTANCE QUESTS, and proceed to battlegrounds with a massive advantage.
this is why every. single. pub. game. in. the. 20. bracket. is imbalanced in favor of alliance. it has become a self-fulfilling prophecy in which the tidal wave of faceroll has gradually built enough momentum to reach the point where would-be "twinks" are rolling alliance not only for the inherent gear advantage, but specifically because the "twink" ratio is so skewed in favor of that faction.
you don't see every single battleground containing 90% alliance ret paladins and hunters because they can wear eyepatch. you see every single battleground containing 90% alliance ret paladins and hunters because these toons resulted from the above-mentioned self-fulfilling prophecy: these players want to play overpowered classes, so they roll ret paladins and hunters. these same players want to play on an overpowered faction, so they roll their "twinks" on the side that already has a massive advantage in every game. (these same players also want to have superior racials, so they all roll human. if you ever want a laugh, start keeping track of the % of alliance players in battlegrounds who are human). and thus you have the current make-up of this bracket. it's that simple, guys.
i'm tired of seeing this discussion (both gear and faction imbalance issues) go back and forth with the same idiotic, empty arguments. i've seen some people that i otherwise really respect repeating some pretty stupid shit about what "they think" are the "real problems" in this bracket. i'm sorry, but if you can't understand that this is how this bracket's faction imbalances work, you are an idiot, and that's just the way it is. and you guys can go ahead and ban me again for saying it, since apparently it's not OK to call people out for being complete morons, but it's OK to repeatedly make stupid, blatantly trolly 24 threads and not get your IP banned.
- cotus
Spryness
Legend
lloydganks1 said:
You got banned for saying a ton of incorrect things as if they were right constantly in antagonistic tones.
Horde have had the advantage in every other twink bracket I've been in, especially with grandfathered gear, until recently. People still rolled mostly alliance then as well, even when the horde's racials were far superior for PvP (20-second fear/charm immunity for undead when humans had slight steath detection passive and weapon skill on maces/swords).
While I agree with ease of acquisition being a problem with random PuG battlegrounds, I strongly disagree with your attitude towards the people talking and comparing horde differences in this thread.
lloydganks1
Legend
Spryness said:
this is just flat-out not true, sorry. it has *never* been the case that "people mostly rolled alliance" in twinking brackets. it has *never* been the case that "horde have had the advantage in every bracket until recently". i don't even know where you would get this completely bogus information other than straight up making it up in order to attempt to make an (imaginary and incorrect) point.
attitude has nothing to do with facts and reality. i got banned for telling people that they're factually wrong, and asking them to stop posting factually wrong things, just like you posted the above factually wrong things.
the biggest asshole in the world who tells the truth is still a more valuable individual than the nicest person in the world who spreads falsehoods. for better or for worse, this is how the world works.
Spryness
Legend
lloydganks1 said:
Level 10s: Wingblade - Item - World of Warcraft, Well Crafted Long Bow - Item - World of Warcraft
Level 19s: Runic Darkblade - Item - World of Warcraft
Level 29s: Windstorm Hammer - Item - World of Warcraft
I can only imagine that you haven't twinked during vanilla or Burning Crusade so that your reference point isn't as far back. That's fine, but I request you stop stating things that are wrong so factually.
lloydganks1 said:
Both of those people are won't be as effective as a nice person that tells the truth, or the asshole that think he knows the truth.
lloydganks1
Legend
uhhhh....i've been twinking since vanilla, all right. you can ask around if you want.
you just gave 4 completely random examples, out of literally probably over 50 faction-only or grandfathered items in those brackets in question. including listing runic darkblade, but not glacial stone. yeeeeaaahhhh.....honestly can't tell if you're trying to troll me or not. if so, consider it a successful troll.
either way, just stop posting in this thread, please.
you just gave 4 completely random examples, out of literally probably over 50 faction-only or grandfathered items in those brackets in question. including listing runic darkblade, but not glacial stone. yeeeeaaahhhh.....honestly can't tell if you're trying to troll me or not. if so, consider it a successful troll.
either way, just stop posting in this thread, please.
Spryness
Legend
lloydganks1 said:
There are many other examples of horde items that strongly outweighed alliance counterparts. Level 10 leather belt, 29 caster robes, other caster BC enchantable weapons... the list is huge. With the exception of Runic Darkblade (which made you lose Dartol's Rod going Glacial Stone), the items in question made the classes that were top even better and were easy enough to acquire. Same as the eyepatch today.
Feel free to explain away alliance advantages in those brackets that outweigh those items during their respective eras.
Good try. Stay small.
Atychiphobia
OG
lloydganks1 said:
Everyone say that, you probably don't even have proof that you twinked since vanilla. And please be more nice to people.
lloydganks1
Legend
Hiidden said:
i dunno what "proof" i could offer other than the testament of myself and other players, sorry. if you've got any suggestions, let me know. maybe the below info will help you out in that regard.
spryness:
Crescent of Forlorn Spirits - Item - World of Warcraft here's the alliance counterpart to windstorm. horde also had another 35+ 1-handed axe with no stats which was useful for silly things like spellsurge but nothing else
Inferno Robe - Item - World of Warcraft i'm assuming you're referring to this horde caster robe, which was only fire damage for several years before being changed to spell damage, and even then provided zero other stats
Steelarrow Crossbow - Item - World of Warcraft this was originally available only to alliance hunters and was arguably the most powerful twinking item in the game (maybe this will "prove" that i've twinked since vanilla? lmao)
Goblin Rocket Helmet - Spell - World of Warcraft here is a another random example of an extremely powerful item that was only available to alliance players in the 29 bracket
there has never been a factional gear or population imbalance in the 19 or 29 bracket in the entire time i've played this game. if you ran into one when you twinked in these brackets, it's probably because your realm or battlegroup had a pop issue, not because either side had inherently superior racials or gear options (and certainly not to the extent that alliance does in this current 20 bracket).
i had a 29 alliance warrior, 29 alliance warlock, two 29 alliance hunters, 29 horde mage, 29 horde druid, 29 horde hunter, 29 horde rogue, 29 horde paladin, 19 horde shaman, 19 horde hunter, and 19 alliance mage. again, i can tell you from personal experience that there was simply no superior faction in terms of gear or population, at any point, in either of these brackets.
we're getting off-topic; the issue here is not the past, but rather that the current factional TWINK imbalance is ruining the 20 bracket. i have an alliance 20 in this bracket as well, and it's disgusting how easymode it is on him due to our players outgearing and out-class'ing the horde every single game (and frustrating on my horde characters). the first step is to admit that we have a problem (alcoholics anonymous style) and recognize the causes.
lloydganks1
Legend
oh, and i forgot the most classic "factional imbalance" of them all - alliance having paladins and horde having shamans in vanilla. i'll have to give you the nod on that one - as an exclusively alliance player at that point in time, we did in fact have a significant advantage having pallies in our 29 10v10s while horde teams were stuck with shamans only. our dwarf priests also gave us a powerful advantage in those games.
hell, i may actually be inclined to agree with you that there was an inherent factional imbalance for twinks in vanilla - but it was on the side of the alliance, not the horde.
hell, i may actually be inclined to agree with you that there was an inherent factional imbalance for twinks in vanilla - but it was on the side of the alliance, not the horde.
Spryness
Legend
lloydganks1 said:
The writing style of your posts has changed.
About those items: The Crescent was terrible for anything besides an off-hand or giving paladin/shaman an option for +healing to weapons on alliance eventually. Wingstorm Hammer, however, was usable by all healing classes with the addition of having decent enough top-end to justify a main hand use. I faced a lot of people with those with grandfathered mongoose and +healing back in BC and the difference was huge.
I definitely twinked in vanilla, but I don't think I got into twinking until after the normalization change. I do remember 60 hunters using that green, though, although I don't know how much that bow affected 29s. If you were around during that time, how did that weapon affect the bracket?
Level 10 hunters/rogues that weren't horde were knowingly lowering their DPS by lots. They were the strongest classes.
In regards to the topic, the original poster is displaying the difference in stats between horde and alliance without hard-to-get BiS to illustrate exactly the point that made you create a second account. Tinkerton had already replied with exactly what you had said, except without aggression. I see little reason for your outburst except for maybe making an incorrect assumption on the meaning of the name of the thread, in which case you were upset for the wrong reason. This thread supports your claim and no one is refuting it. Just what are you mad about?