Gearing for Ret?

[Roadwarrior]

Tired of playing ezmode classes, want to give Ret a try:

• Anybody have a link to a geared Ret?
• Strength > Vers > Effective Health > Crit > Haste? - Haste seems to give almost zero serious reductions to timers?
• Thoughts?

 

[Dcm]

I only have experience with 20 ret, however, I wouldn't rule haste out. Crit for ret seems shit tier tbh especially since it's only x1.5 in pvp. Vers is still undoubtedly the best, but I would go Str > Vers > Haste.

I'm on my phone right now so I can't give a link to any armory or to at least swap to ret gear and link mine (even though I'm lvl 20), but as far as gear, combatant claymore is a really solid choice, and then aurora off pieces. Of course get 2 weapons for crusader swap.

Engi goggles are good, and gnomer ring is something I'd consider too (depending on how much you value the high vers over strength from any pieces you can get).

GL
[doublepost=1540241145,1540241027][/doublepost]Sorry, I kinda forgot to mention my reasoning for haste.

Ret thrives in that their off heals are really good, and haste is beneficial toward that

 

[Imnotabelf]

Something I've noticed on my level 20 ret is the downtime in rotation. HP generation at these levels is a bit slow, which is why I like haste so much.

My preferred set up at 20 is strength > haste = vers

 

[Lightfall]

playing ret before wake of ashes is ZZZZ in my opinion but would agree with the notion of str>vers>haste

 

[Roadwarrior]

What are you thinking about for Haste as a %, 10%, 15%?... the gear choices for haste/vers are a bit rough and I don't want to gimp Strength/Versatility by taking too much Haste at their expense?

 

[Dcm]

What are you thinking about for Haste as a %, 10%, 15%?... the gear choices for haste/vers are a bit rough and I don't want to gimp Strength/Versatility by taking too much Haste at their expense?

Well for the set I'm thinking, I wouldn't personally try and sacrifice anything for haste. Basically what I'm saying is if you get aurora off pieces before adaptable, cool, use that, but I'd use adaptable over aurora, but aurora over quickblade

As for what @Imnotabelf is mentioning for his preference, he'd be better to elaborate. I never heard of a haste = vers set, not saying it's wrong, but seems interesting.

 

[ohti]

ret is ezmode

if you want a real challenge play warlock or something ig idk everythings ez

 

[Roadwarrior]

ret is ezmode

if you want a real challenge play warlock or something ig idk everythings ez

I don't know about that. I won't argue that Ret/Warlock/Elemental Shaman/Feral are at the bottom of the shit pile. I just don't like Warlock, it takes three times the skill as other classes for half the damage at the 29s.

Even if you are full Affliction you are just pressing more buttons to do half the damage of some kid jumping around like a jackass on his dual wield Huntard dotting shit up, acting like he is good. "I'll sick my demon dogs on his ass!" or "I like big GREEN BOLTS"... get the fuck out of here the other specs are just trash damage, I don't care if you are Jesus playing with full Grandfathered swag... trash.

 

[Grimzee]

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/bleeding-hollow/Pheta
He's been theorycrafting his ret for abit now and this is where he's at and he's fairly competive

 

[momus]

max out haste/stam>verse>crit(just get it w/e it comes naturally 10% at least)
ignore str, use weapon swap for crus procs
this is the best set for rbgs, its totally different for arenas and wgs though

 

[ohti]

I don't know about that. I won't argue that Ret/Warlock/Elemental Shaman/Feral are at the bottom of the shit pile. I just don't like Warlock, it takes three times the skill as other classes for half the damage at the 29s.

Even if you are full Affliction you are just pressing more buttons to do half the damage of some kid jumping around like a jackass on his dual wield Huntard dotting shit up, acting like he is good. "I'll sick my demon dogs on his ass!" or "I like big GREEN BOLTS"... get the fuck out of here the other specs are just trash damage, I don't care if you are Jesus playing with full Grandfathered swag... trash.

I haven't queued my ret much since legion but from the number of ret bgs i've done at 20 it seems to tear, idk

i think every spec has its place. when i'm inviting ppl to queue with me i'll save a warlock a spot over every other spec just for a cookie and some fears

low dmg ≠ trash
its all about the utility bruu

 

[Sabo]

20% haste gives you an extra cooldown every 6 seconds and puts CS's cd to 3 seconds.
0.2 haste * 1.5s = 0.3s
1.5s - 0.3s = 1.2s
6s window / 1.5s GCD = 4 cds
6s window / 1.2s GCD = 5 cds
You'll still have a "dead spot" in the opening if you use ExSen, but I just heal something there.
I know this type of build conflicts the status quo, but I play it and it's at least worth mentioning.

 

[Imnotabelf]

Well for the set I'm thinking, I wouldn't personally try and sacrifice anything for haste. Basically what I'm saying is if you get aurora off pieces before adaptable, cool, use that, but I'd use adaptable over aurora, but aurora over quickblade

As for what @Imnotabelf is mentioning for his preference, he'd be better to elaborate. I never heard of a haste = vers set, not saying it's wrong, but seems interesting.

The reason I prefer haste is due to the gaps in a ret paladin's rotation. It's not very fluid since you can't maintain holy power generation at level 20 - 29 very well (you might hit a wall where all of your HP generating abilities are on cooldown).

But this is the way I see things since I am playing on a 20. At 29 you do get Art of War which does make Ret a much more viable option.

 

[Vandiir]

20% haste gives you an extra cooldown every 6 seconds and puts CS's cd to 3 seconds.
0.2 haste * 1.5s = 0.3s
1.5s - 0.3s = 1.2s
6s window / 1.5s GCD = 4 cds
6s window / 1.2s GCD = 5 cds
You'll still have a "dead spot" in the opening if you use ExSen, but I just heal something there.
I know this type of build conflicts the status quo, but I play it and it's at least worth mentioning.

Unfortunately your haste to hasted CD math [hasted CD=CD*(1-h)] is not correct. To see why, what does your math say if a character has 100% haste instead (or 110% haste, or any haste greater than 100%)? If a character has 100% haste (which is the same as being 100% faster, or in other words being twice as fast), a 1.5 sec CD will be hasted to .75 sec, not to 0.0 seconds or to negative seconds for haste>100%.

Instead, [hasted CD=CD/(1+h)], where h is your haste % in decimal form [like 25% <-> .25].

Spoiler to understand why if you're curious on the derivation, or where this comes from.

As hinted by the word "faster", haste references speed, and the units of speed is in the form of U/t, where U is some unit and t is a unit of time. When one says A is, say, 35% faster than B, that means A's speed is 35% greater than B's speed, or (A's speed)=1.35*(B's speed). And in the context of CDs and GCDs, that speed can be seen in the units [CDs used per time period], or CDs/time. And with a 1.5 s GCD, we have 1 GCD per 1.5 sec, or [1 CD]/1.5s.

And what do we mean by a GCD being h% faster than a 1.5 sec GCD? By saying that a hasted GCD's CD/time speed is h% greater than the other, or
[1 CD]/t=(1+h)*([1 GCD]/1.5), which simplifies to 1/t=(1+h)/1.5, or t=1.5/(1+h)

Thus, 1.2=1.5/(1+h) => 1+h=1.5/1.2=5/4=1+.25, or 25% haste, instead of 20%, to have 1 additional GCD every 6 sec.

Also, to reduce a 6.0 sec CD (like crusader strike) to 3.0 sec [which is twice as fast as a 6.0 sec CD] requires 6.0/3.0=2=1+1, or 100% haste. 20% haste will reduce a 6.0s CD to a 5.0s CD instead.

[EDIT: corrected some numbers]

 

[Roadwarrior]

Unfortunately your haste to hasted CD math [hasted CD=CD*(1-h)] is not correct. To see why, what does your math say if a character has 100% haste instead (or 110% haste, or any haste greater than 100%)? If a character has 100% haste (which is the same as being 100% faster, or in other words being twice as fast), a 1.5 sec CD will be hasted to .75 sec, not to 0.0 seconds or to negative seconds for haste>100%.

Instead, [hasted CD=CD/(1+h)], where h is your haste % in decimal form [like 25% <-> .25].
Thus, 1.2=1.5/(1+h) => 1+h=1.5/1.2=5/4=1+.25, or 25% haste, instead of 20%.
Also, to reduce a 4.5 sec CD (like crusader strike) to 3.0 sec requires 4.5/3.0=3/2=1+.5, or 50% haste instead [20% haste will reduce the 4.5s CD to 3.75s~either 3.7s or 3.8s], which is also the haste needed to reduce a 1.5 sec GCD to a 1.0 sec GCD.

One extra thing to note as well is calculated haste CD in WoW tooltips will only tell numbers down to the .1 sec digit, and it'll round numbers to a .1 digit number.

That makes Haste a lot less impressive compared to just going Weapon Swap Strength/Versatility beats

 

[tence]

The reason I prefer haste is due to the gaps in a ret paladin's rotation. It's not very fluid since you can't maintain holy power generation at level 20 - 29 very well (you might hit a wall where all of your HP generating abilities are on cooldown).

But this is the way I see things since I am playing on a 20. At 29 you do get Art of War which does make Ret a much more viable option.

This has been the case for ret paladins at low levels for a while now. There will be times when you cant really do anything but look pretty and that's ok. Effective ret play is about saving holy charges, timing burst with other classes/hoj at key moments, and tossing out heals. Its unique in its ability to fill multiple roles without being super op at either of them but still being effective given the right circumstances (a team of all casters or ranged will tear a ret apart with kiting). If you want to spam buttons and use templar's verdict constantly or spam abilities 24/7 play another class to get your ADHD fix. Ret is about using your tools at the right time to land the kill or return. Or you could just play an op class and turn your brain off.

 

[Roadwarrior]

Side note: what is a good weapon swap macro? I tried set swapping, but sometimes it just does not work or errors out.

 

[Imnotabelf]

This has been the case for ret paladins at low levels for a while now. There will be times when you cant really do anything but look pretty and that's ok. Effective ret play is about saving holy charges, timing burst with other classes/hoj at key moments, and tossing out heals. Its unique in its ability to fill multiple roles without being super op at either of them but still being effective given the right circumstances (a team of all casters or ranged will tear a ret apart with kiting). If you want to spam buttons and use templar's verdict constantly or spam abilities 24/7 play another class to get your ADHD fix. Ret is about using your tools at the right time to land the kill or return. Or you could just play an op class and turn your brain off.

Like I said - this is my point of view and preferred set up. I'm not looking to "spam abilities" or get a fix or whatever other crap - I wouldn't have made a paladin my main for as long as I have if I wanted that.

And I definitely don't misunderstand the role that a ret paladin has, doesn't mean you can't find ways to maximize efficiency.