Faction Balance
- Thread starter Donteventrii
- Start date
Willyshatner
Legend
Gladiator?
Thank you.
Daydra
Legend
allahkazam said:
I think the primary thing to avoid is any sort of over abundance of some particular classes/specs. There are ways we can do that without being abrasive or taking away from peoples enjoyment.
Too many hunters in a particular wsg does take away from the game.(that I think we all agree on)
Offering hunters a sincere invitation to an alternate class to hop on IF they see the numbers are getting out of hand is one solution. Making use of the 49 que list is another. Discouraging new twinks from rolling a hunter is also not a bad idea. Our seasoned players being the first ones to set an example of swapping toons is helpful. I think attacking someone over thier class choice will in most cases likely yield responses we won't really like.
The problem isn't soley with hunters either. The same sort of issues can hold true with say 4 rogues in a game. In that case, if you are on one of the rogues it wouldn't hurt to hop on an alt if you have it available. Anyways if being mindful of team composition becomes common place, I think we will all benefit.
Keeping it in mind that these are pug games we are queing into also might be something we should start stressing more. Give the games time to iron out before calling the night a wash or raging on vent/forums.
Sorry if I had played a part in derailing the discussion at all, however I think some amount of light humor is needed around here!
The topic is an important one and one we should and can address but lets work together with it.
@roudy - yay glad to hear you are going that route
allahkazam
Legend
Also for what it's worth, I'm retiring my druid for now. I have no gold and no high level on Winterhoof anymore so supporting a twink there isn't feasible. Rolling an alliance 29 to replace him on Boulderfist. Probably will be ready to play in a month or two because I start things and never finish them.
Franchi
Legend
Willyshatner said:
Presenting an opinion and having a discussion is not trolling.
Legitimate discussion does not require the use of the report feature to avoid responding to your opponents, does not involve intentionally drawing people into bannable offenses, and does not require you to ignore the numbers/statistics and facts involved. Willy does all of those things Therefore willy is a troll and will always be a troll in my opinion
Hunters
Most cc in the bracket, yes it's not spamable like sheep is but it is something you can put up on 3 targets at a time this is CC not slows/roots but legitimate cc and one of them does not share dr with the other 2.
best dps in the bracket, this is something that is indisputable.
top 3 movement/escape in the bracket.
Best range in the bracket.
zero cost always up (on single target) slow in a bracket where no one has a dependable gap closer
longest range in the bracket
Ability to do all of this on the move.
ill give you that they have a clunky resource mechanic.
If the stumps in wsg had LOS i wouldn't bitch about hunters. but because they do not and because the fences and hills can be shot through the only los in wsg is the huts and the basses.
I also notice that every time i see the alliance stacking hunters you get on your druid or don't play willy. so while you insist that hunters are fine and it's a l2p issue your actions say otherwise.
What the hell about that do you deny willy?
yes yes just about everyone can always be doing something a little better but your response of out skill the hunters is retarded, yes most of them are horibad and the horde walks all over most of the unskilled hunters at 29, that does not change the fact that they are overpowered beyond belief at 29.
Oh that's right your counter is "You have victory rush hunters don't have a self heal" so warriors are over powered hunters are fine.
When was the last time you enjoyed a game against 4 hunters willy?
Even when i win one the entire game is just frustration.
allahkazam
Legend
Hunter is an easy class to play but still requires ability to play at a high level. The sad part is you can hardly tell if someone is good at hunter or just another random hunter. Hunters who disengage into hills or scattertrap targets with a full battery of warlock dots on them are obviously bad. It's easy to roll up a conc shot on something in mid and start firing away at them. It's harder to be an asset to your team outside of raw damage output. Just about anything in this bracket can train a target that isn't getting healed. That isn't unique to hunters. The gulch has been a shooting gallery for as long as I've played WoW so it shouldn't really be anything new. Stacking more than 2 of any class isn't healthy for the bracket. I'd honestly prefer 1 hunter per side every game if they weren't mid farmers or terrible.
If conc shot was on the same CD it always was and was only 3 seconds like it used to be untalented this entire argument would be null and void. It's the only part of hunters I really find to be unfair and I doubt anyone would really disagree on that. Perma concussive shot needs to go.
If conc shot was on the same CD it always was and was only 3 seconds like it used to be untalented this entire argument would be null and void. It's the only part of hunters I really find to be unfair and I doubt anyone would really disagree on that. Perma concussive shot needs to go.
Willyshatner
Legend
I've never reported anyone because I don't want to have a discussion with them. I've only ever reported people who a) resort to insulting me directly for whatever reason, or b) use profanity that's directed towards me, in a way that bypasses the filter. You can believe what you want to, but I am not trying to troll anyone. Perhaps if you and others had /ignored me, or stayed on topic within the discussion at hand, no one would have been reported. I guess I shouldn't expect others to take responsibility for their actions....
I play whichever toon I feel like playing. In games Tuesday, there were 2-3 hunters all night on alliance, and I played Willy most of the night. I also specced my priest shadow for a few games. I don't tend to log specific toons in response to any number of hunters. However, Feral druids and to an extent enhance shamans both counter hunters. Being able to sit on them in close combat greatly reduces the amount of damage they do.
I am not in denial about what a hunter is capable of doing. What I keep trying to point out is that hunters aren't nearly as powerful as you perceive them to be, and any issues with hunters in the bracket stem from the fact that there is very little coordination or communication in our games, ESPECIALLY on horde. I pointed out in the other thread here that Hunters don't do any damage when they are CCed or focused. I pointed out that healers can't heal a hunter when the heals are CCed or focused. Far be it for me to expect people to use the tools they have at their disposal to make light work of hunters (which would be the case if people actually used the tools at their disposal).
I mean seriously, how much effort does it take to stick together in a group? How much effort does it take to get in vent? How much effort does it take to call out what's going on in games? If you need a peel, call it? If you need heals, call it? If you need a dispel, call it? If a target needs to go down, call it? If a hunter is free casting @ 41 yards on people, call it out and do something about it? Since cata launched, this kind of stuff simply isn't happening in games. On average we have maybe 6 people on our team in vent, and maybe 2 people making any sort of calls. Where's the other 4 people at? How come 8/10 people can't be more vocal?
You don't have to be a Gladiator to counter hunters with rudimentary game play mechanics. You just have to be smarter than your keyboard.
Taking something I said about general class balance, out of context, doesn't mean anything.
I enjoy every game I play in, regardless of how many hunters are on the other team.
Why are you getting frustrated? It's just a game.
Franchi
Legend
wow willy seems i remember you stating quite clearly on the wow forums that you reported any offensive language. but oh darn you got that thread deleted.
The only reason i don't just ignore you is you constantly spew garbage about hunters being fine. sorry that i don't want that to go un-refuted.
And no of course pretending to be a new player to the bracket while posting on your six year old sons account about how much fun you are going to have rolling a hunter is not trolling, we are just delusional to think it is.
ROFLMAO
so how exactly do you counter 3 hunters running in a pack around mid with 2 healers willy? if it was 3 warriors with heals it would be easy, hell 3 of any other class with healers in attendance would be easy to counter or evade, hunters not so much.
As daydra has said these are pug games, the fact that most of us are in vent cannot make up for the 4 or so who will not get in vent and even if they did the impact of them getting in vent would be minimal when dealing with 3+ hunters such as last night. More people being vocal clogs up the vent channel during call outs, generally speaking one person per group (offense and defense) calls out focuses and cc targets, and everyone calls out who they are CCing or if they need a peel. Against the current crop of hunters this is enough, against skilled and fully geared hunters it will be a joke.
And trying to involve Victory rush and recuperate in a class balance discussion at 29 as anything other than a line item at the bottom of the page is a joke, kinda the point i was making about your previous trolling.
And you just happen to accidentally play a stealth class in so many of them. P.S. I can understand why you don't think conc shot is a problem, you also play the only class who can make themselves immune to it with an insta cast. The rest of us eat it, we can't call out for a dispell, we cant stealth past it we eat it.
I chose to play a role that is and always will be the easiest link in the chain for the other team to break and win. I would love to let someone else do it but only one other person currently playing 29s will. Hunters make my job infinitely harder, not harder in an OK i need to get better at planing my routes kinda way, not harder in a i need to get better at the individual fights kinda way, but harder in the why the hell do I even try department. So willy feel free to roll an fc play a few games and then say you don't get frustrated with the number of hunters. Especially when these are players who have played twinks before.
in closing, where is the ignore poster feature here?
Daydra
Legend
Willy cautious on your responses. If you want to have an indepth chat that goes back and forth perhaps vent would be a better option.
I understand some of the points you are making and even agree to a certain extent but the manner that they come across is negative. I can talk to you a little more about it sometime. I just don't want to see an important thread overtaken by people firing tit for tat information that will come off as silly to a random bypasser.
Problems Solutions Discussion Compromise
and before you argue that you are simply discussing the matter consider if you are trying to force your opinion or if you are laying things on the table for consideration by others. <3 not picking on you Franchi you tone it back a notch too!
I understand some of the points you are making and even agree to a certain extent but the manner that they come across is negative. I can talk to you a little more about it sometime. I just don't want to see an important thread overtaken by people firing tit for tat information that will come off as silly to a random bypasser.
Problems Solutions Discussion Compromise
and before you argue that you are simply discussing the matter consider if you are trying to force your opinion or if you are laying things on the table for consideration by others. <3 not picking on you Franchi you tone it back a notch too!
Willyshatner
Legend
Yeah I am done responding to Franchi. It's quite clear that he doesn't want to have a discussion. Ironic that he calls me a troll when everything he says is an inflammatory comment specifically designed just to get me to respond.
As far as the topic goes at hand goes, I am not trying to shove an opinion on anyone. I fully understand that these are pug games, and that people aren't going to treat them like rated BGs. However, we are all trying to speak in terms of things that will improve the quality of games, and getting in the public vent that's posted each game, communicating the things that are important, and being able to coordinate will greatly help. I understand it isn't going to happen overnight, and that's okay. Putting that out there as a topic for discussion is by no means a bad thing. If we can talk about it and come to some sort of solution to the problem, we can greatly benefit in the same way that rated BG teams benefit: we can begin to improve our chances of winning games.
As far as the topic goes at hand goes, I am not trying to shove an opinion on anyone. I fully understand that these are pug games, and that people aren't going to treat them like rated BGs. However, we are all trying to speak in terms of things that will improve the quality of games, and getting in the public vent that's posted each game, communicating the things that are important, and being able to coordinate will greatly help. I understand it isn't going to happen overnight, and that's okay. Putting that out there as a topic for discussion is by no means a bad thing. If we can talk about it and come to some sort of solution to the problem, we can greatly benefit in the same way that rated BG teams benefit: we can begin to improve our chances of winning games.
Daydra
Legend
Noone's argueing against vent. It's useful and improvements can continually be made on the manner its used while in games. Vent won't soley correct or prevent problems but its a tool that can be used.
So far it seems like most agree -
Vent is pro use it, Learn how to call out cc targets more effectively to adapt to unbalanced feeling games(which would be everyone stepping up their game on teamwork)
Cross faction toons is beneficial to bracket. Larger guilds that have the ability to assist players with this should step up.
Encouraging hunters to have an alt and composition awareness isn't a "bad" thing. (compromise between hunter/no hunter arguements?)
Discouraging new twinks from rolling classes that could potentially be harmful to the bracket in large quantities isn't a "bad" thing.
Use 49que list as a heads up to what and who is online so that we don't set ourselves up for 4 hunter game.
Additionally?
So far it seems like most agree -
Vent is pro use it, Learn how to call out cc targets more effectively to adapt to unbalanced feeling games(which would be everyone stepping up their game on teamwork)
Cross faction toons is beneficial to bracket. Larger guilds that have the ability to assist players with this should step up.
Encouraging hunters to have an alt and composition awareness isn't a "bad" thing. (compromise between hunter/no hunter arguements?)
Discouraging new twinks from rolling classes that could potentially be harmful to the bracket in large quantities isn't a "bad" thing.
Use 49que list as a heads up to what and who is online so that we don't set ourselves up for 4 hunter game.
Additionally?
Willyshatner
Legend
Pretty much sums up how I feel about things.
Daydra
Legend
Oh I do have one additional....
I would like to find someone to step up to co-ordinate arena/wargames monthly on dragonmaw. You don't have to be in <Lost the Batteries> but we will provide guild support to it.
What is needed is basically someone with some free time, who can be "not nice" in a respectable manner, and broad class mechanics knowledge.
I have a strong feeling that some people simply need a comfortable time to ask questions and hear feedback on area's for improvement.
I wish I had the time to commit to keeping something regularly going however I often times don't know what my schedule will be. I also suck at being mean and lack some basic knowledge of various classes that I'm hoping doing this will help me to improve as well. If you are interested just grab me and we can chat in vent about some thoughts on how to pull it off in a way that will effectively improve teamwork along with individual play.
I'd want it to be fun too! So if you are a debbie downer you need not apply I miss arena's! This would at least potentially give us something like the skirmishes.
I would like to find someone to step up to co-ordinate arena/wargames monthly on dragonmaw. You don't have to be in <Lost the Batteries> but we will provide guild support to it.
What is needed is basically someone with some free time, who can be "not nice" in a respectable manner, and broad class mechanics knowledge.
I have a strong feeling that some people simply need a comfortable time to ask questions and hear feedback on area's for improvement.
I wish I had the time to commit to keeping something regularly going however I often times don't know what my schedule will be. I also suck at being mean and lack some basic knowledge of various classes that I'm hoping doing this will help me to improve as well. If you are interested just grab me and we can chat in vent about some thoughts on how to pull it off in a way that will effectively improve teamwork along with individual play.
I'd want it to be fun too! So if you are a debbie downer you need not apply
I miss arena's! This would at least potentially give us something like the skirmishes.Oknobpolisher
Legend
Agreed, Day and Willy.
I also agree with the hunter-limited idea, as opposed to hunter-less. Yes, they may hit hard, but so do other classes. With teamwork and coordination, they'll only be a minor obstacle.
I'm not a fan of vent since I generally can type pertinent information as quickly as it could be verbalized. I don't believe I'm allowed in vent anymore, right? At any rate, I think "EFC west side" and "Our FC tun" conveys anything I'd need to know.
Off topic, it's pretty amusing to read these progressively unstable posts. A few of you can calmly post with logic and state facts, while many others respond with a plethora of unstable insults and verbal diarrhea.
I.E, the visual interpretation:
versus
.
I also agree with the hunter-limited idea, as opposed to hunter-less. Yes, they may hit hard, but so do other classes. With teamwork and coordination, they'll only be a minor obstacle.
I'm not a fan of vent since I generally can type pertinent information as quickly as it could be verbalized. I don't believe I'm allowed in vent anymore, right? At any rate, I think "EFC west side" and "Our FC tun" conveys anything I'd need to know.
Off topic, it's pretty amusing to read these progressively unstable posts. A few of you can calmly post with logic and state facts, while many others respond with a plethora of unstable insults and verbal diarrhea.
I.E, the visual interpretation:
Ohai
OG
Honestly by not taking willy's opinion seriously (because he may or may not have trolled or reported in the past), you may as well be trolling Franchi.
Also I find our EU moderator to be funny, hopefully he doesn't lock MORE threads here because... I specifically came here to keep the drama off the more active 29s threads. I'm not posting on the Bnet forums anymore except for very minor things.
@Kow and Amy I'm personally sorry for wronging you in any way, and I'm certain neither of us want to play in shitty games, so lets just work together and beat up on the alliance for a while, K?
Also I find our EU moderator to be funny, hopefully he doesn't lock MORE threads here because... I specifically came here to keep the drama off the more active 29s threads. I'm not posting on the Bnet forums anymore except for very minor things.
@Kow and Amy I'm personally sorry for wronging you in any way, and I'm certain neither of us want to play in shitty games, so lets just work together and beat up on the alliance for a while, K?
Franchi
Legend
Here is the thing ohai,
who links vent info horde side at the start middle and end of every match? oh that's Franchi.
who has actually taken the time on several occasions to teach people how to play better? oh that's Nastay.
who has been asking homer and others over and over and over to join vent??? oh that's Franchi as well.
who tries every gimmick in the book including advertising "Girls in vent" to get people to join? That's Franchi as well.
What exactly has willy brought to the table other than constantly countering with "just get more in vent" or "learn to play better" and saying "IT"S A TRAP" when i advertise vent info? Oh that's right NOTHING. So his only counter is the things we are already actively doing.
Willy put your money where your mouth is. If you want more people in vent why don't YOU link the vent info? If you want to see better play from people why don't YOU stay up 2 hours after games teaching people efficient target swapping and how to make modifying focus macros? When we had a thread up about 29 macros what did you post in it????
Rather than go on your "hunters have rights to" and "L2p" campaign why don't you step up to the plate on all the rest of it???
Willyshatner
Legend
Franchi, are you really that desperate to troll me? Nothing I have talked about in this thread has anything to do with people needing to spam vent more, or people needing to teach others how to play. In fact, nothing I said was even directed at you. Everything I have said thus far is a general 'this is what could stand to be improved' and it isn't a matter of me stepping up and doing it. I get in vent. I do communicate. I do help others with their characters, including answering 'how to play' questions if they have them. I post vent info when no one else does, however most of the time someone beats me to it.
I don't see what's so difficult for you to understand about the things I say. All I know is that you're really reaching here with that post.
I don't see what's so difficult for you to understand about the things I say. All I know is that you're really reaching here with that post.