Faction Balance

[Donteventrii]

Because 39s have gone dormant, many of their community would now like to enjoy 29 games with us. I welcome this. More skill and activity in the bracket will always be welcomed. But two things need to be addressed, and I hope everyone can voice their opinion (Willy, keep yours concise.)



1. Another thread mentions 11-12 rerolls from 39s to 29. These players are all presumably very good at overall gameplay and teamwork. If they queue up en masse, I doubt that the Horde Pug will be able to field counter it. They might be able to, and it will be made evident after 1-2 games.



Over the last few months, if games were one sided, 29 vets would switch to the underdog faction to help balance. My concern is that because you are all rolling Alliance, and because you want to play together, you will have no Horde toon to hop on to help us balance. Games will be shit, you guys will get bored and leave- the last thing I and others want to happen.



My suggestion- start working on Horde toons right away. 29 twinks can be decked out in less than a week. If you all do it together, it might even be fun to level through BGs/Instances. When 29s games get lopsided in the Alliance favor, 3 of you could log over to Horde to challenge the other 3 of your guild that is playing Alliance. It's win-win for EVERYONE!



2. 29s have enjoyed Hunterless (not Hunterfree) as a result of our discouraging them in every game we see them in. We point them to the facts- Hunters dumb down the game and make it less fun for clothies and even leather wearers to play. Queueing on Hunters causes weaker players to develop a "well if the other team is queueing Hunters, I guess they aren't discouraged. I need to play a Hunter just to compete" mentality. And so we get stuck on a negative feedback loop.



29 vets (minus Broshot, because he is a weak minded person, and Lrig, because he just doesn't give a ****) have realized this fact. They rerolled new toons, and joined our call for a reduction in Hunters among new players. When DH Alliance sport add to the Hunter fire, it forces our resolve to waver. We start getting grumbles of "well we should just queue up on our Hunters to counter theirs". None of us actually want this, but they feel like their back is against a wall, and if the DH folks won't respect our wishes, to hell with it.



So again, I will please ask Rubikz and all future 29 twinks to NOT roll a Hunter.



Cheers, I'll see you all in games.

 

[Willyshatner]

(Willy, keep yours concise.)

Y u got 2 bring me in 2 this?





1.If DH 39s are rolling alliance 29s I see nothing wrong with that. Many of us on horde are sitting out every other game atm because there just aren't enough alliance to counter balance horde as it is. One night recently, a lot of the horde regulars were rolling their alliance characters for the night, while other horde regulars weren't even queuing, and those of us left on horde were actually getting quick pops into every single game, which was a nice change from the norm. I don't see an issue with more alliance tbh.





2. Hunterless? Hunterless = 'without hunters.' I see your argument against hunters as two fold. On the one hand, you don't want Veterans (good players) on their hunters, because they 'know better.' Then you don't want newer folks queuing on their hunters because 'they're scrubs.' This leads me to ask who's left to legitimately play on their hunter? I hope you aren't trying to say that by telling everyone that they can't play their hunter for X reason (which is a negative action that most will take negatively and react negatively towards) you are somehow reducing the hunter population to an 'acceptable number.'





I would much rather see all that negative energy (which isn't accomplishing what you think it is) better spent getting people to use vent, coordinate with others in game, and use teamwork above all else. Neutral/objective minded players like myself won't be so quick to agree that hunters are a problem when we don't even have the basic fundamentals of what makes games good, happening in our BGs. People not in vent, people not communicating while in vent, and people not exercising teamwork are probably 100x more detrimental to the quality of games than a few hunters here and there.

 

[Donteventrii]

In response to 1: I see no problem with more Alliance. I just want to make sure games are balanced skill wise so that everyone can enjoy them. It isn't enjoyable for anyone when one faction dominates the other all night long. You can put the burden to get better on the bad team, but the fact remains that it's just wishful thinking. Instead, we can be proactive and have some of the more dominant faction balance it out by playing with the underdogs.



In response to 2: Hunterless= less hunters, that's why I said (not Hunterfree). Veterans shouldn't play them because we KNOW Hunters make low level pvp less fun for other classes. Getting the vets to reroll is a good example for the newbies who want to play Hunters. Discouraging Hunters HAS led to a reduction in their number. Recent support on Alliance side has realized at least a 200% increase in their number. It's detrimental to the bracket. Discouraging Hunters is something that made us an attractive alternative to Hunter-heavy 19s and 39s.

 

[Ohai]

I just want to say sorry here in this post, you guys in doomhammer are doing a good thing by coming to the bracket, and getting shit because of one hunter. I just hope you know why its being said, and what we're trying to avoid.



That said, alternate faction toons are a really good idea, and most of the existing 29s have them. I hope you guys consider rolling, you can go 1-20 in like 2 hours if you give yourself a trial invite and duelbox while questing.



After that I'm sure if you ask around people would be happy to use the real-id feature to group with you and get you runs on horde side.

Lrig, because he just doesn't give a ****)

Lrig has a horde rogue that he hops on occasionally though, so even he has another toon, xfaction, to swap to.

 

[Draui]

I just want to say sorry here in this post.

I was the healer during the turtle. =(



I recently came back to WoW, hearing that 29s were going again. I was told Alliance needed help. I LOVE playing for the losing side, it is much more rewarding to have to earn a win, than to be given one. I finished my Alliance toons first, hoping for better/balanced games. I offered to fund twinks, take in existing/lost WR Alliance players, and even paid for xfer's to get good players in <emotional>.





However, last night was not fun... It was dirty, disgusting gameplay. I appreciate the numbers that DH is bringing, but it needs to be said that games would not have gone the same way if Alliance had no hunters, regardless of the skill 39s are bringing to the green side of WSG. I honestly do not know how many Hunts DH is bringing to the table, but the Hunts that were on, were not fun to play with. They were incredibly rude, and had no sense of the 29s bracket community. (May have just been Haxity)



Basically, if this persists, do some of us Alliance players need to faction change to horde to even out games? I can finish my horde twinks and whatnot, but I am getting random 29s asking for guild invites that just xfer'd. Should we send new players to Horde or Alliance?

 

[allahkazam]

The idea also would be to do this quickly while you can still instance group over realid to quickly be run for gear. I only have an 82 warlock horde side but I'd be glad to run anyone for gear they need.



I've also talked to Rubikz in game about the whole shitstorm I seemed to set off.



Chasing you guys off is the last thing I want personally. I've only been actively playing now for a couple weeks but games have been fun. More competition is obviously going to mean more fun and more games and a more active bracket. We're already adding another night apparently which means we need to be active and take steps to help keep the bracket growing. I think seeing this many rerolls at one time is a great opportunity to push the bracket up a notch in terms of getting games and getting more high quality players in games. I hope you all consider all of this and agree to roll a horde twink to keep faction balance good. Stomping the same tired people game after game will only serve to make players not want to play, which I believe is the opposite of what everyone wants.

 

[roudy]

i looked into rolling something horde side but the i lack the friends/boa's to make it easy, all my friends in game and real life who play are die hard endgame raid fans so for now if alliance is steamrolling ill just not que....

 

[Draui]

i looked into rolling something horde side but the i lack the friends/boa's to make it easy, all my friends in game and real life who play are die hard endgame raid fans so for now if alliance is steamrolling ill just not que....

It isn't THAT bad. And any other dps that queues might take a place of a hunter. Please play. We are a twink bracket. We have drama, but it'll settle soon. Very few people are here to actually troll the bracket. And the ones that are, are terrible.

 

[roudy]

It isn't THAT bad. And any other dps that queues might take a place of a hunter. Please play. We are a twink bracket. We have drama, but it'll settle soon. Very few people are here to actually troll the bracket. And the ones that are, are terrible.

the drama wont stop me from playing ill just avoid the forums, limited gold on a new realm to try and roll a 29 is what makes me avoid it, just about every class needs a few peices of boe gear and with limited playtime i dont want to roll another dk to farm for my 29.....ill eventually get around to it when wife/kid aggro lessens

 

[Willyshatner]

In response to 1: I see no problem with more Alliance. I just want to make sure games are balanced skill wise so that everyone can enjoy them. It isn't enjoyable for anyone when one faction dominates the other all night long. You can put the burden to get better on the bad team, but the fact remains that it's just wishful thinking. Instead, we can be proactive and have some of the more dominant faction balance it out by playing with the underdogs.

To be fair, since Detox moved on, Alliance has been rocking hunters in multiples, and for the most part seem to lack a lot of good players. Many of the games we've played since June have been complete steamrolls by Horde, and i think that Horde are covered in terms of skill. What needs to happen now, is people making a conscious effort to play better through communication, coordination, and teamwork.

In response to 2: Hunterless= less hunters, that's why I said (not Hunterfree). Veterans shouldn't play them because we KNOW Hunters make low level pvp less fun for other classes. Getting the vets to reroll is a good example for the newbies who want to play Hunters. Discouraging Hunters HAS led to a reduction in their number. Recent support on Alliance side has realized at least a 200% increase in their number. It's detrimental to the bracket. Discouraging Hunters is something that made us an attractive alternative to Hunter-heavy 19s and 39s.

When you add 'less' to a word in the English language, it signifies 'without' something. Ex. Regardless > without regard. Fearless > without fear. List words ending with less 'Hunterless' isn't a real word, but if it were, it would mean, without hunters.





Now, I understand that you don't like hunters. I understand why. I also understand that you have issues controlling your feelings in general, and you come across as negative the majority of the time. Other players, who also tend to feel negatively towards hunters, are more likely to be fueled by your negative sentiments, and that isn't good for the bracket in general. I play(ed) 39s, and I can tell you they didn't have 'hunter problems' unless you count the games where they didn't have any hunters and they were hard up for defense on their FC. In the 39s, most people were aware that too many of any class is a bad idea, so they try to avoid class stacking anything. Most games I was in had two hunters or less in the entire BG, and it was fine, even though hunters are more powerful @ 39 than they are @ 29.



Granted, Hunters don't get flare or frost trap @ 29, but they would still make a great defensive DPS in our games, if people were willing to play them that way. As it is, there are too many other problems still within the bracket for anyone to be concerned about hunters specifically. Negative attitudes being a big one. Teamwork, coordination, communication, and general aptitude being another. I would love to agree that hunters themselves ruin games, but as I discussed with Franchi, I don't have the data to support that claim. Too many situations where a hunter is blowing people up, are 1v1s, which world of warcraft just isn't balanced around. Too many situations where hunters are called OP, there just isn't any focus fire, CC, or healing being applied correctly.





When you have an FC being escorted by 3 people, and one hunter is spamming him with conc shot, that isn't hunters being OP. That's 3 people being ridiculously bad and doing nothing to peel/support the FC properly. I can't stress enough that Hunters are perfectly fine in the right context, and that I don't want to see anyone shunned because they play a hunter. That type of negative behavior is far more detrimental to the bracket than anything else. Just ask 39s if you don't believe me.

 

[Donteventrii]

Concise...

 

[Franchi]

willy be trollin again.

 

[Willyshatner]

You wanted to have the conversation, stop complaining about how it pans out.

 

[Franchi]

You wanted to have the conversation, stop complaining about how it pans out.

Ladies and gents new to this discussion/issue/bracket, Willy is the jackass that drew all the trolls in in the first place by repeatedly trolling and reporting threads to deletion.



this is twink info willy, most players here have a wee bit of exp with low lvl hunters, most of them are going to agree that having more than 2 per side lessens the quality of games.



so stop trolling and take your quasi logical skill/balance argument back to the wow forums where it earned you a forum ban for TROLLING that you used your sons account to circumvent. You then repeatedly lied about this and reported anyone who called you out on it while pretending to be a new player in the bracket who we were being mean to by requesting he play anything but a hunter. How you have avoided a lifetime ban there is beyond me and further prof that the mods do not investigate the reports.





Please leave willy, it is entirely your fault that we no longer post on the wow forums, grats on killing the public image of a bracket, grats on getting on ignore from better than 60% of the bracket, Grats on using an issue that was SETTLED long before you came back to bring all of this about, also grats on that pro necro ban you managed to dish out after you specifically asked a player to bump that thread.



you are the all time pro forum troll we acknowledge that.





Now shoo the adults are talking.

 

[Daydra]

Anyone wanting a cross faction toon hordeside or an alternate toon to a hunter can pst <Lost the Batteries> on Dragonmaw horde for an invite. We have gear, enchants, and goodies available. We have mains to assist with runs and agm. We are also a very easy going lively group with amusing gchat and some decent numbers online for game nites.

The invite's out there, I'd like to avoid any decline in recent activity.

 

[Franchi]

Anyone wanting a cross faction toon hordeside or an alternate toon to a hunter can pst <Lost the Batteries> on Dragonmaw horde for an invite. We have gear, enchants, and goodies available. We have mains to assist with runs and agm. We are also a very easy going lively group with amusing gchat and some decent numbers online for game nites.

The invite's out there, I'd like to avoid any decline in recent activity.

Remember folks we can also use real id to run people across server, and in light of my recent transfers to dragonmaw i will be assisting people there instead of on my home server of ursin.



If you are worried about a lack of boas or anything gear related read this wonderful thread by Fiur



http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2416111699



also take a look at daydra one of the best healers in this bracket, she only has one boa and only recently acquired it.

 

[Daydra]

I've been playing boaless from the get go (just got enough honor for my mace finally) and i can honestly say if you know the class and play it well lacking some minor stats will not suddenly make you suck.

 

[yoube]

Daydra, I am contemplating bringing my horde shamling over there if you will have meh. I promise to bring a couple packs of batteries so you guys can have happy fun time.

 

[roudy]

are resto druids any good at all in this bracket? i have a lvl 13 druid on dragonmaw horde but i want to roll a healer(ive always played as dps) worth doing or should i roll hpaly?...i know its kind of off topic but if im rolling a new twink it will be some form of heals

 

[yoube]

I would advice going the holy pally route. That is unless you are a glutton for punishment and want to add the druid to your warrior.



edit - or you could be a boss and roll a resto sham like the cool kids do