F2P 19s
- Thread starter Hardc0re
- Start date
mighty
Legend
first off, i really wish that f2p wasn't considered a subset of the 20-29 bracket on this forum. if f2p was in its own section, threads like this wouldn't seem to undermine the good work that the 20 community was doing, and there would probably be less trouble with 24s.
i wish we could talk about geared 19 or 14 f2p without it needing to detract from what the 20s are building. i read the 14 and 19 forums, but they can't relate to most of the issues that affect f2p. we f2p players have more in common than our differences, regardless of level, but there are enough challenges in the 20s that any alternate approach is taken as a challenge and responded to with anger and derision.
yeah, actually i saw quite a few names i knew from lurking in the 19 forum. saw alot of waw tawent and pizza hut guild tags.
i was just stating what i personally saw when playing 20s. this was NOT on aerie peak, so you may have enough twink 20 community on the nightfall battlegroup to improve the situation.
in the bloodlust battlegroup, i would get into a wsg with my f2p paladin and there would be about 15 lvl 20s in quest gear with 800-900 health who all gathered in mid to be slaughtered by a couple of fully twinked 24s. then there would be me and one or two other geared 20s in dungeon gear, trying to get a little coordination. many games would turn into gy camping, sometimes by both sides. when nobody was carrying the flag and 24s were camping both graveyards, i would just afk out. in all fairness, not all games were that way, but the ones that were ruined it for me.
i would love to break this down into sloppy self-serving napkin math!
the f2p player has a distinct disadvantage against the p2p toon. the difference in profession caps gives the p2p player at least a 5% advantage. BiS for f2p loses another 10% of the stats available to p2p. enchantments are the real kick in the pants. with correct gearing and twink enchants, the p2p player has at least a 35% stat advantage. with this disadvantage, i need to practice my skills and pick my targets carefully. i will never make a good flag carrier for my team, but have to be content with a support role.
now we look at the 20-24 bracket. p2p would have the same 35% stat advantage IF you were the same level. but the sad fact is that most p2p players are full twinks who also have four levels on you. four levels worth stats. four levels worth of skills. four levels worth of gear choices. the p2p 35% advantage has turned into something like a 70% advantage.
if your geared 20 f2p can one-on-one with the 24 p2p twinks, i am impressed. i am not that good. i need to narrow the advantage gap to compete.
i wish we could talk about geared 19 or 14 f2p without it needing to detract from what the 20s are building. i read the 14 and 19 forums, but they can't relate to most of the issues that affect f2p. we f2p players have more in common than our differences, regardless of level, but there are enough challenges in the 20s that any alternate approach is taken as a challenge and responded to with anger and derision.
dragonsblood said:
yeah, actually i saw quite a few names i knew from lurking in the 19 forum. saw alot of waw tawent and pizza hut guild tags.
C O T U S said:
i was just stating what i personally saw when playing 20s. this was NOT on aerie peak, so you may have enough twink 20 community on the nightfall battlegroup to improve the situation.
in the bloodlust battlegroup, i would get into a wsg with my f2p paladin and there would be about 15 lvl 20s in quest gear with 800-900 health who all gathered in mid to be slaughtered by a couple of fully twinked 24s. then there would be me and one or two other geared 20s in dungeon gear, trying to get a little coordination. many games would turn into gy camping, sometimes by both sides. when nobody was carrying the flag and 24s were camping both graveyards, i would just afk out. in all fairness, not all games were that way, but the ones that were ruined it for me.
iaccidentallytwink said:
i would love to break this down into sloppy self-serving napkin math!
the f2p player has a distinct disadvantage against the p2p toon. the difference in profession caps gives the p2p player at least a 5% advantage. BiS for f2p loses another 10% of the stats available to p2p. enchantments are the real kick in the pants. with correct gearing and twink enchants, the p2p player has at least a 35% stat advantage. with this disadvantage, i need to practice my skills and pick my targets carefully. i will never make a good flag carrier for my team, but have to be content with a support role.
now we look at the 20-24 bracket. p2p would have the same 35% stat advantage IF you were the same level. but the sad fact is that most p2p players are full twinks who also have four levels on you. four levels worth stats. four levels worth of skills. four levels worth of gear choices. the p2p 35% advantage has turned into something like a 70% advantage.
if your geared 20 f2p can one-on-one with the 24 p2p twinks, i am impressed. i am not that good. i need to narrow the advantage gap to compete.
Druiddroid
OG
Vaught said:
there's a lot of 19s that are as good as 29/39s, but most of them quit WoW
Druiddroid
OG
mighty said:i would love to break this down into sloppy self-serving napkin math!
the f2p player has a distinct disadvantage against the p2p toon. the difference in profession caps gives the p2p player at least a 5% advantage. BiS for f2p loses another 10% of the stats available to p2p. enchantments are the real kick in the pants. with correct gearing and twink enchants, the p2p player has at least a 35% stat advantage. with this disadvantage, i need to practice my skills and pick my targets carefully. i will never make a good flag carrier for my team, but have to be content with a support role.
now we look at the 20-24 bracket. p2p would have the same 35% stat advantage IF you were the same level. but the sad fact is that most p2p players are full twinks who also have four levels on you. four levels worth stats. four levels worth of skills. four levels worth of gear choices. the p2p 35% advantage has turned into something like a 70% advantage.
if your geared 20 f2p can one-on-one with the 24 p2p twinks, i am impressed. i am not that good. i need to narrow the advantage gap to compete.
What 24s are running around in exp-on BGs with that good of gear? Maybe some 85s leveling their toon through, and even then they won't have BiS, they'll just have the BoA's
The reason people do f2p is to be level 20 in exp on so that there are scrubs on the battlefield. Even if you find some random 24 with BoA's, chances are they are terrible PvE baddy.
Druiddroid
OG
Eritheas said:
LOL I thought the purpose was to be in exp-on bgs
now the whole idea of f2p sounds retarded
dragonsblood
Legend
Eritheas is correct once you hit 20 on a f2p twink your xp is turned off automatically. the 24's everybody complains about have turned their xp off as well.
mighty
Legend
C O T U S said:
i hear you. i just started 2 new toons on AP. a belf pally and a draenei shaman. they will both go straight to 20 and skip wsg to queue only ab. i agree with your posts in several other threads that ab doesn't encourage the same kind of abuses because of the different layout and goals. my comments are still true about twink 24s vs geared 20s, regardless of the bg. and the queue times for ab are a bit troubling.
what i don't get is your insistence that queueing ab is the ONLY solution to the problems in the 20s. ab is one option with its own advantages and disadvantages. xp-off to play another bracket is another option. yasueh has talked about making an add-on to enforce gear limits in wargames, but has gotten only negative reactions on the forum. i would think that we could all explore different ways of improving f2p instead of attacking other people's ideas.
Druiddroid said:
f2p 20s are in the xp-off 20-24 bracket, so the 24s there have paid to xp-off and have appropriate gear. here are some serious twink 24s exploiting the current scene:
Bracketruinr @ Arthas
Yim @ Duskwood
Jawsome @ Kael Thas
Colläteräl @ Spirestone
Swagl @ Arthas
Kó @ Firetree
there are even organized guilds of 24s
MUCKA MAD BOYS
Ridin On Twenty Fours
iaccidentallytwink
Guild Master
mighty said:first off, i really wish that f2p wasn't considered a subset of the 20-29 bracket on this forum. if f2p was in its own section, threads like this wouldn't seem to undermine the good work that the 20 community was doing, and there would probably be less trouble with 24s.
i wish we could talk about geared 19 or 14 f2p without it needing to detract from what the 20s are building. i read the 14 and 19 forums, but they can't relate to most of the issues that affect f2p. we f2p players have more in common than our differences, regardless of level, but there are enough challenges in the 20s that any alternate approach is taken as a challenge and responded to with anger and derision.
yeah, actually i saw quite a few names i knew from lurking in the 19 forum. saw alot of waw tawent and pizza hut guild tags.
i was just stating what i personally saw when playing 20s. this was NOT on aerie peak, so you may have enough twink 20 community on the nightfall battlegroup to improve the situation.
in the bloodlust battlegroup, i would get into a wsg with my f2p paladin and there would be about 15 lvl 20s in quest gear with 800-900 health who all gathered in mid to be slaughtered by a couple of fully twinked 24s. then there would be me and one or two other geared 20s in dungeon gear, trying to get a little coordination. many games would turn into gy camping, sometimes by both sides. when nobody was carrying the flag and 24s were camping both graveyards, i would just afk out. in all fairness, not all games were that way, but the ones that were ruined it for me.
i would love to break this down into sloppy self-serving napkin math!
the f2p player has a distinct disadvantage against the p2p toon. the difference in profession caps gives the p2p player at least a 5% advantage. BiS for f2p loses another 10% of the stats available to p2p. enchantments are the real kick in the pants. with correct gearing and twink enchants, the p2p player has at least a 35% stat advantage. with this disadvantage, i need to practice my skills and pick my targets carefully. i will never make a good flag carrier for my team, but have to be content with a support role.
now we look at the 20-24 bracket. p2p would have the same 35% stat advantage IF you were the same level. but the sad fact is that most p2p players are full twinks who also have four levels on you. four levels worth stats. four levels worth of skills. four levels worth of gear choices. the p2p 35% advantage has turned into something like a 70% advantage.
if your geared 20 f2p can one-on-one with the 24 p2p twinks, i am impressed. i am not that good. i need to narrow the advantage gap to compete.
Don't forget that there IS in fact a skill cap. If both players are at the same skill level there's absolutely no way to win.
Hardc0re
Legend
iaccidentallytwink said:
But that actually never happens. You can make tier lists based on gear or class, and tier lists are usually accepted in games because they count players in the same skill level. But, in truth, it's impossible. We aren't machines, there's no way we can be of the same skill level. There are always some f2p twink killing p2p twinks, as there are Dhalsims killing Yuns in SSFIV AE
This actually ADDS fun instead of taking it off, well, I love hard games, I don't like easy-mode stuff.
And in my experience at 19s, I can tell you most twinks there suck! It's really fun how those 1500 HP rogues really keep trying to kill my 950 HP druid, and 90% of the time I'm able to kill then. It seems to me that most of the 19 players are really bad, or I'm getting extremly lucky in my WSG queues.
I'll admit that you can't play any class in f2p 19. I think melees for instance are out of question. But casters, hunters and healers are good enough to make you have loads of fun. But well, I'm using a free account in a paid MMORPG, so I accept the restritions and I deal with it, I manage.
Druiddroid
OG
Hardc0re said:Well, it's still free
Join us on 19 as well if you still think it's retarded
I quit WoW months ago
Druiddroid
OG
iaccidentallytwink said:
duh
but people are poor and can't pay 15 dollars a month
C O T U S
Legend
Hardc0re said:But that actually never happens. You can make tier lists based on gear or class, and tier lists are usually accepted in games because they count players in the same skill level. But, in truth, it's impossible. We aren't machines, there's no way we can be of the same skill level. There are always some f2p twink killing p2p twinks, as there are Dhalsims killing Yuns in SSFIV AE
This actually ADDS fun instead of taking it off, well, I love hard games, I don't like easy-mode stuff.
And in my experience at 19s, I can tell you most twinks there suck! It's really fun how those 1500 HP rogues really keep trying to kill my 950 HP druid, and 90% of the time I'm able to kill then. It seems to me that most of the 19 players are really bad, or I'm getting extremly lucky in my WSG queues.
I'll admit that you can't play any class in f2p 19. I think melees for instance are out of question. But casters, hunters and healers are good enough to make you have loads of fun. But well, I'm using a free account in a paid MMORPG, so I accept the restritions and I deal with it, I manage.
agreed 100%. the thing is, and what a bunch of us have said already, is that this is *more* true at f2p 20 than it is at f2p 19. there are more classes which are playable at 20, the playing field is much more level, and there is still just as much (if not more) scope for skill to shine.
i have no doubt that you're good enough to compete at f2p 19. what we're saying is that you would have a better time doing the same thing at 20. don't listen to the whiners - f2p at 20 is actually pretty damn balanced, other than hunters, which are just as big of a problem at 19 (if not more).
Spryness
Legend
Hardc0re said:There are always some f2p twink killing p2p twinks, as there are Dhalsims killing Yuns in SSFIV AE
Someone must've seen NCR9 Daigo vs Filipino Champ. Made me weep. Ono even apologized to the crowd at Evo 2011 about AE's balance issues.
I entirely agree with everything you said. Even the best 24 twink hunters are about on par with my 20 F2P hunter despite the gear/enchant differences and that hurdle is a bigger one than just enchants/gear. What you're doing is more akin to running a 20 warrior, and no one hates on people for doing that despite the self-handicap.
Starup
Legend
Tbh lvl 19 is actually bad in f2p. I mean the least you guys can do is support that f2p bracket. F2P 19s can be just as fun as f2p 20s. To me the difference is very very minor. And the only reason why queuing for AB is good is because its easier to use LoS and WSG's GY got nerfed hard.
roudy
OG
Spryness said:
i actually play a 20 prot warrior but im p2p so my enchants are slightly better so i seem to do ok, i still hate hunters >.<
and i do mean slightly, i didnt go all out becuase i didnt want a huge advantage over everyone, just wanted to have a chance against the 5 hunters who seem to que every game