Explain Haste Cap please

[Edmuir]

Hey gang,

I recently started a Blood DK at Lv 13. Not my idea, I borrowed it from Beti's Excellent 10s guide. Anyway, it seems that in so many posts and armories, I see people suggesting that you cap Haste at 24.5. Is that the point that diminishing returns really kicks in? Is this a general standard for all Haste builds or what?

 

[Kaxle]

Stats, aside from mastery which goes off points instead of %, hit the first DR tier at 30% I think.

The 23.5% you see thrown around is from Beti's guide and is based on math for MW monk. It was included in the warrior section as a way to show that its good for them as well since it lowers the gcd allowing you to press WW again sooner but they didn't want people to just hard stack haste so the 23.5% acts like a limiter to remind people to look at other stats as well. Outside of those two classes I'm not sure that % is relevant.

 

[mirrorbender]

Diminishing returns start at 30%, but its only 10% on points beyond that until 39%, it's really not that big a deal. If you really want to stack a stat, you probably still want to keep stacking at 90% value (hell, if you get to 39%+ you probably will want 80% value too).

The actual haste cap is 126%. The other big limit is that the minimum global cooldown is .75 seconds, which is at 100% haste. This GCD cap doesn't apply to specs that use energy, they have a static 1 second global cooldown.

I'm not sure why 23.5% would be a breakpoint, even on MW monk. I would be interested in an explanation of the logic behind that.

 

[Dethshock]

Diminishing returns start at 30%, but its only 10% on points beyond that until 39%, it's really not that big a deal. If you really want to stack a stat, you probably still want to keep stacking at 90% value (hell, if you get to 39%+ you probably will want 80% value too).

The actual haste cap is 126%. The other big limit is that the minimum global cooldown is .75 seconds, which is at 100% haste. This GCD cap doesn't apply to specs that use energy, they have a static 1 second global cooldown.

I'm not sure why 23.5% would be a breakpoint, even on MW monk. I would be interested in an explanation of the logic behind that.

Same. I have no idea why people toss around the 23.5%

My fury warrior I went crit to the full 35% and haste to 30% then stacked str. (I use true stat) addon shows where DR is for your level. If i recall, Crit is 94 points and haste is 88. Either way, I took them both to the cap.

Can't say I notice anything major but it is what it is.

What I do know is people need to stop assuming all ilvl 30 gear with slots > anything else. The slot gear is good to get you to the caps and for the speed/health regen, then after that, gear for what's actually best and adjust gems as needed.

That's my 2 cents *shrug*

 

[ghank]

I made a 10 druid haste twink (120%) back in the day and I think I could get 2 to 3 wraths out in a second. They didn't hit super hard but I'd have like 6 of them in the air at a time. You have to press the cast button a LOT. It's pretty fun at first then tiring after a bit lol.

 

[Zly]

I made a 10 druid haste twink (120%) back in the day and I think I could get 2 to 3 wraths out in a second. They didn't hit super hard but I'd have like 6 of them in the air at a time. You have to press the cast button a LOT. It's pretty fun at first then tiring after a bit lol.

I probably hated you! My lvl 10 rogue had 120% dodge, couldn't be hit. But, spells can't be dodged

 

[Sponsor]

Stats, aside from mastery which goes off points instead of %, hit the first DR tier at 30% I think.

The 23.5% you see thrown around is from Beti's guide and is based on math for MW monk. It was included in the warrior section as a way to show that its good for them as well since it lowers the gcd allowing you to press WW again sooner but they didn't want people to just hard stack haste so the 23.5% acts like a limiter to remind people to look at other stats as well. Outside of those two classes I'm not sure that % is relevant.

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This is the answer, OP.

Ignore all other replies.

To be able to chain 1 Whirlwind perfectly into a 2nd Whirlwind, requires you to decrease your global cooldown by a certain amount of Haste. That amount of Haste is 23.5%.

Period. Only useful for MW monks and WW spamming Warriors.

We know you can go higher% with Haste, that's not the point.

 

[mirrorbender]

This is the answer, OP.

Ignore all other replies.

To be able to chain 1 Whirlwind perfectly into a 2nd Whirlwind, requires you to decrease your global cooldown by a certain amount of Haste. That amount of Haste is 23.5%.

Period. Only useful for MW monks and WW spamming Warriors.

We know you can go higher% with Haste, that's not the point

So this is not correct. You're contradicting your own sources. Kaxle is saying that 23.5% is just a good number that reminds you not to tunnel vision on haste (which is fair), not some kind of actual breakpoint. The discord post screenshotted is saying that 23.5% is specifically applicable to MW monks, and that a different calculation would need to be done for WW warriors. And yet somehow what you got out of that is that 23.5% is a magic breakpoint that does apply to warriors spamming WW?

On top of this is the fact that 23.5% doesn't even make sense as a breakpoint for monks, the duration of SCK scales with haste exactly the same as the GCD. You are never going to be able to spam it faster than the duration.

It might be possible to get your GCD low enough to spam whirlwind faster than you can complete the previous whirlwind, but I'm not sure even then if that would result in canceling the first whirlwind or if it would just start overlapping. In any case, even if that breakpoint exists, it's not at 23.5%. I have tested at ~35% haste and you are still getting 6 hits per cast.

 

[Sponsor]

So this is not correct. You're contradicting your own sources. Kaxle is saying that 23.5% is just a good number that reminds you not to tunnel vision on haste (which is fair), not some kind of actual breakpoint. The discord post screenshotted is saying that 23.5% is specifically applicable to MW monks, and that a different calculation would need to be done for WW warriors. And yet somehow what you got out of that is that 23.5% is a magic breakpoint that does apply to warriors spamming WW?

On top of this is the fact that 23.5% doesn't even make sense as a breakpoint for monks, the duration of SCK scales with haste exactly the same as the GCD. You are never going to be able to spam it faster than the duration.

It might be possible to get your GCD low enough to spam whirlwind faster than you can complete the previous whirlwind, but I'm not sure even then if that would result in canceling the first whirlwind or if it would just start overlapping. In any case, even if that breakpoint exists, it's not at 23.5%. I have tested at ~35% haste and you are still getting 6 hits per cast.

I'm gonna try and put it in simple terms for you: you're wrong.

Listen to the numbers that have been tested and developed for the past 2 expansions. You're still not getting the reason behind 23.5%. We've literally explained it twice to you and you just refuse to see the math. That's on you. Don't you dare say I'm contradicting my source. Fuck.

I'm done explaining this. Goodnight. I am too tired for this shit lol.