[EU - 39] - what about a short term league ? Ideas before getting to it.

Hey guys.



The 39 bracket is living again, but …

… it certainly lacks some sort of competition to get really working on long term. We need to get some people log on their twinks more often, so we need to put some interest in the twinking experience.

And let's be realistic, organizing a tournament sounds quite impossible (the twink is rarely a main character, people often play it when they don't have anything better to do on their 80), an unofficial tournament will be subject to random catastrophies, misunderstandings, changes of mind, rage quitting and it's just a one day thing. So … since organizing one seems really hard, organizing two seems impossible, I thought we should try it in a different way.

I was thinking about creating something new ! Here are the basic ideas i'd like to work on.



We could make some sort of short-term league going on on Blackout for 39s.



Requirements :



- a few 2v2 or 3v3 teams

- people who gather and write information (registration, screenshots and results) - they'll probably have to give their realID to all players (but we'll see)

- people who write the rules and organize the games.



How does it work ? (this is just a basic example of how it could work, everything is subject to changes and improvement, of course)

Basically it will look like a football league (except our league will last 4 days over a month)



- Some forum threads should be created first : a thread for rules, a thread for registering(teams should register at least 48 hours before league starts), a thread for real-time results and screenshots, a thread for the ratings, a thread for comments, we can also make thread for people looking for mates.

- We set a fixed day each week (let's say sunday), at fixed hours, "official matches" will start (this will all depend on everyone's free time). Matches will depend on the number of teams playing (I think if we get at least 8 teams it can be really nice, but number of teams will not be limited i guess).

- Once the games start, someone will post results and screenshots on the related forum thread.

- This will last 4 days/month (one day/week).

- Each team gets to play against every other team (one or several times, it will depend on the number of registered team)

- Games will be "Best of 3" - Winner gets a certain amount of points

- At the end of the four days, a winner is declared.

- Each month we will decide if the next league will be for 2v2s or 3v3s.

- While the league is playing, other teams can register for the next one (one month later then).





Why organizing it this way ?



- A short-term event like this one looks really easier to put on, since it gives us several days to organize some games with a few teams.

- One month is a short period, if some people don't make it time for registering, they won't have to wait long before a new league starts (registrations for next league will be open while current league is on).

- It's an event that can be repeated and it can become a kind of "fil rouge" (or benchmark) for 39s to hold on to. It should give the bracket something concrete, people will want to improve, find new team mates. Rage quitting will be a lot limited of course since it won't depend on a one night event (we will have leagues every month, if somebody is not happy or failed somewhere there, he/she can just register for next months and get the chance to get it right).

- It can be intense, it should bring more people on long term.

- One night per week events like this will give people time to play as they like every other day of the week.

- On a longer period, we will get to know each other's in game characters and create a more solid community.

- This way of organizing things should allow people who are not interested in arenas not to get bothered queuing with someone just to keep the bracket alive. And it should give some kind of honoring reward to players who only play for arena PvP (and queue BGs just to keep bracket alive :p)

- This will also create new topics and variations.

- It should also keep 39s alive when Cata comes out (one night/week is easily free-able, specially if there is some interest in playing 39)



What we really need :



- Some real rules written down (about registration, games timing, game mode, team comps, specially for people who have more than one char etc).

- Somebody who will be a sort of 'referrer' in case of misunderstanding, misleading or something.

- Somebody who gathers registration information

- Somebody who organizes the games

- Somebody who gathers real time info and screenshots and post it on forums

- Somebody who modifies the rating and declares the winning team at the end of the 4th night :)

- Ventrilo (?)

- And players of course !!!



Still lacking some sort of price for the winner (other than eternal glory, ofc), we'll have to figure something out.





Basic rules :



- Arena rules

- League will last 4 nights over a month (one night per week)

- Team must be registered at least 48h in advance

- Games will be played on pre-fixed nights (let's set sundays for example)

- Info will be sent to 1 or 2 guys who will place it where it belongs (forum threads).





Every idea in this thread is subject to changes and improvements. It cannot/should not be done by a single person. If somebody out there who has some organization skills is interested in this kind of idea (i was thinking about Eloc, Incorrupto, Zay, Scarborough, Grounding, or everyone who's interested), just make contact in game or through forum. We set a day, go on skype or vent and start something concrete. I think we have enough people interested in arenas to get some event like that going on.

Work has not begun, I'm still just trying to gather some ideas and information to get it concretely done.



Then if all this looks like shit or impossible to make, just let me know what you think.



Share your ideas, suggestions, or opposition if you have some.

Please, dont let this thread die by lack of answers, kill it if you want, but give reasons why it should or shouldn't work, thanks :)



Also, i'm more than willing to let other people create this, maybe people who are most known or who have nice organizing or GM skills, with more influence, so let me know if somebody is interested in making it happen (with or without me). I'm a better player than organizer (ask my opponents, oh no you can't they're already dead :p)



Cøwa.
 
Sounds like a really cool idea man. I would be up for helping in some way. Count me in ;) Even though I probably won't be able to play if it is on a Sunday due to work commitments I don't really mind lending a hand. 39 is still close to my heart.
 
it doesn't have to be on sundays. It can be any other day we decide, plus we would have a whole week to play the games that could not be played on sunday.

I will get in touch with you in game as soon as i get somebody else as well, and we'll figure things out on how to organize such a thing :)



EDIT : I've already been contacted by Incorrupto, Scarborough, and Mortox who seem really interested in lending a hand to this project. I know i can easily get in touch with Eloc as well, and people in Highwav that are having nice ideas as well (Grounding, Ero). This is starting to sound serious. I hope we can all meet on skype/vent soon to discuss all this.

If everything goes as i imagine (i'm seriously taking this project as something 39 bracket can hold on to), we can have something starting next month. So start looking for your mates out there.

and Thx to the guys i named in this post for contacting me so soon :)
 
I really like the idea of this, I think more games per month though however!
 
Since i got whispered quite a few times about this "league" and know for sure there will be at least 6 teams willing to participate, I already started to write down some rules and steps to follow (it's still a draft). I'll post new thread as soon as possible. I would like it to start next month. Just need to figure out a few things still (like the scoring rules and a way to organize the matches).



Remember that the basic idea is really simple : at some precise moment of the week, some arenas with fixed comps will be "rated", and at the end of the competition ( 1month, 2 weeks, ... ?) the highest rated team is the winner.



Stay tuned.
 
After those discussions, i sorta figured out a way to get our League going. If everything goes as good and fast as i hope, it could start next month.

I still need some "officers" to help me gather real time information during the games. So if somebody's interested in being (with me, of course) a sort of referrer, just tell me. I would be glad to have somebody helping me there, even for games organization (queues, having the right game, etc).

Here is an example of how it should work with 8 teams (ofc this will be re-adapted according to the number of enlisted teams)



General Info



Start : Octobre 3rd 2010 / End : October 24th 2010

Registrations until : October 1st 2010 at 23:59 (London Time)

Game mode : Best of 3

Rules : standard arena rules, each game is a "Best of 3". I decided not to forbid any item (Dazzling sword, death ray, …) it's better for less QQ. People who can't use what they have will just not want to participate. And people who don't have what they'd like are most likely to participate anyway. And let's not forget that gear is not everything, and RNG is not to be underestimated. But nothing forbids teams or people to arrange for not using any particular item (it should be in private though, and before the game starts)

Teams : just for example 8 (let's call them A, B, C, D, E, F, G and H)

Day : just for example Monday



Scoring



Victory = 3 points

Defeats = 1points if 1 victory in the Bo3

0 points if 0 victories.



If there's a draw at the end of the league between highest rated teams, Winner will be declared after a "Best of 3" direct game



So, games will be :

A vs B / A vs C / A vs D / A vs E / A vs F / A vs G / A vs H

B vs C / B vs D/ B vs E/ B vs F / B vs G / B vs H

C vs D / C vs E/ C vs F / C vs G / C vs H

D vs E / D vs F / D vs G / D vs H

E vs F / E vs G / E vs H

F vs G / F vs H

G vs H



=> 28 games, each in a Bo3 !



Calendar

Games should start at 18:00 until 21:00 (server time) ( So players can queue for BGs after the games)



October 3rd

A vs B - Bo3

C vs D - Bo3

A vs E - Bo3

G vs H - Bo3

B vs C - Bo3

D vs E - Bo3

F vs G - Bo3



October 10th

B vs D - Bo3

B vs G - Bo3

E vs G - Bo3

F vs H - Bo3

A vs D - Bo3

C vs H - Bo3

E vs F - Bo3



October 17th

A vs C - Bo3

B vs E - Bo3

C vs F - Bo3

D vs G - Bo3

E vs H - Bo3

A vs F - Bo3

D vs H - Bo3



October 24th

A vs G - Bo3

B vs F - Bo3

C vs G - Bo3

A vs H - Bo3

B vs H - Bo3

D vs F - Bo3

C vs E - Bo3



Each team will play 2 games during 3 days, and 1 game during 1 day. The following list shows the number of games per week. Every week, one or two teams will just have 1 game to play (this will happen just once in a month for each team) :



A = 2-1-2-2

B = 2-2-1-2

C = 2-1-2-2

D = 2-2-2-1

E = 2-2-2-1

F = 1-2-2-2

G = 2-2-1-2

H = 1-2-2-2



Each additional idea or advice is most welcome and will be carefully read, and maybe used.





If i don't get any negative answer to this post, i will create the "Official" threads will be posted on forum asap.

This is gonna take quite a lot of work, so any volunteer is welcome (gathering info in real-time during the games, making sure the right teams are dueling, keeping score records etc …)



If this whole thing doesn't work out, it won't be a problem, at least we'll have tried to put up something nice :)
 
Imo its over a too long time and it's may not be enought games. Soo you play 4-6 games every sunday (if there is 8 teams). Is it enought with Bo3? Is it enought games to be able to turn the tide? In some cases it is enought, but all 80 tournaments is Bo5 and if also depend on how many teams that attend but it's something to think about.
 
As we play 4 days each month, we have to make 4 schemes.



So if:

x = number of days played

n = number of teams



We have to divide number of matches played by every team by number of days we play. Each team will play n-1 matches (all teams less itself) and we will play x days, so: (n-1)/x . If x=4 and n=8, each team will play 7/4 = 1'75 matches per day. This is what Cowa said, but this is not the only case. As we divide by 4 then we have 4 cases. If n=9, 8/4 = 2 . If n=10, 9/4 = 2'25. And if n=11, 10/4 = 2'5.



An example of different number of teams would be this:



n=8

A = 2-1-2-2

B = 2-2-1-2

C = 2-1-2-2

D = 2-2-2-1

E = 2-2-2-1

F = 1-2-2-2

G = 2-2-1-2

H = 1-2-2-2



n=9

A = 2-2-2-2

B = 2-2-2-2

C = 2-2-2-2

D = 2-2-2-2

E = 2-2-2-2

F = 2-2-2-2

G = 2-2-2-2

H = 2-2-2-2

I = 2-2-2-2



n=10

A = 2-3-2-2

B = 2-2-3-2

C = 2-3-2-2

D = 2-2-2-3

E = 2-2-2-3

F = 3-2-2-2

G = 2-2-3-2

H = 3-2-2-2

I = 3-2-2-2

J = 3-2-2-2



n=11

A = 3-2-2-3

B = 3-3-2-2

C = 2-2-3-3

D = 2-3-3-2

E = 3-2-3-2

F = 2-3-2-3

G = 3-2-3-2

H = 2-3-3-2

I = 3-3-2-2

J = 2-2-3-3

K = 3-2-2-3



I haven't set up a calendar because this post would be too long, but it's not very difficult to set up.



Also I wanted to say that if we're more than 12 teams we should play an all vs all round where each team has to play at least 15 games and then calculate their win/loses % (wins / games played). After this we could do 2 things:

1.- 9 teams pass to next round and we play "cowa style", like we were talking or

2.- 8 teams pass to next round and we play like a "play-off" (1v8, 2v7, 3v6, 4v5)



Another classification system we could do is like blizzard does at 80 lvl. We set up some days and hours, then registered teams can play as many games as they want and rating would be the wins/loses %.
 
Thanks Eloc and Intentalo for your suggestions and for formulating a general calculus.



To be honest i think that starting with a Bo3 will be the best solution, since we don't know how many people are interested. Plus, having a League going on is a commitment, so, for a start, the shorter it is, the better chances we have a successfull project. This can be changed to Bo5, if it works.



I don't know if we'll manage to have more than 12 teams. I'll be surprised. But if we do, then I suggest we stick to Intentalo's ideas, and we all work on a nice game planning.



Later i'm gonna write down the "General League info thread" as well as the "Registration" thread.

Mortox and Intentalo, please inform your guildies (so that everyone knows about the project and can register if they want, here on TI). I will do the same for Highwav (or Eloc, if you want and if i'm not online). I'll also try to get in touch with twinks from Blackout (Sapped cows cant go moo, for example, or the isolated twinks out there). I'm pretty sure Hewett reads this thread, i'm not too worried about him being informed.

After the threads are published, it would be nice if GM's or Officers try to gather some info about the day most people are likely to play.



If anyone has other ideas, just share them ;)



thanks again all of you out there for your work and support. It really makes me want to try to keep working on it with all of you.
 
Hello everyone.

I've been contacted by several players (each of them is very good btw) who wanted to help, and they all did (ideas, advices, …). And we're gonna try it out next month, on October 4th !!! Before creating a thread for team registrations, i'd like to know your opinions about the following rules, read some ideas or advices. Once rules are set, they won't be changed for the current league. All teams can register on the next thread on forum.



Here is the draft for the thread i'd like to open asap.

Leave comments, advices, i'll change what needs to be changed :)



[EU-39 League] Rules and Infos







Start : October 4th

End : October 25th



Registrations start : as soon as the thread is online.

Registrations end : October 1st at 23h59 (London time)



Arena day : Mondays (games can be postponed for people who can't play on mondays - just let us know before d-day)

Arena time : 18:00 to 21:00



Comps : See Registrations thread (the first League will be for 2v2's).

Number of teams : unlimited "see registration thread"



Rules :

- Basic arena rules (i know some of you out there are against some items, i.e : dazzling sword, death ray, …, but i think that using everything that is allowed in arenas should prevent from anyone cheating and we'll have less QQ's - and after all, some you there farmed or payed for each of the items you own, use them if you can/want to). The only exception would be using fast mounts in arenas (since just one player has it - a hunter from Gringos Waggon). Still, teams or people can arrange for not using a particular item (it should be in private though, and before the game starts), like the well-known "gentleman's agreement" for rogues not using the epic sword.

- Each team must register before the date and on the proper Registration thread.

- Every possible comp is allowed.

- Each team can have 3 members, so that if you have to fight your perfect anti-comp, you'll get an additional option allowing to change comp (always before the game ofc).

- Each member of the registered team should be online when game is planned ( if somebody can't be there, just inform us in time (try to inform at least the day before - and we'll postpone the game). Not being there for the arena will lead to a forfeit, and the opposing team shall be considered winner (same rule applies to rage quitting). If there is a DC or lag issue try letting us know as soon as possible. Remember the games are "officially" rated, so if some of you make mistakes during the game, you'll only have yourselves to blame, no re-match.

- Each player can only use one char (chose carefully before registering) per league, and play in one team only.

- Games will be "Best of 3"- the team that wins 2 out of 3 games will be the winner.

- One member of each team shall be in realID contact with one of the "Officers", he'll be the one sending results by in-game PM or by e-mail (Screenshot).



Scoring :



Victory = 3 points

Defeats = 1points if 1 victory in the Bo3

0 points if 0 victories.



If there's a draw at the end of the league between highest rated teams, Winner will be declared after a "Best of 3" direct game



Results will be posted on forum in real time, and ratings will be modified.

The thread for Ratings, Calendar and real-time results will be done once we know all the teams in the league.

I won't be making any thread for people looking for mates, because i think you can do it by yourselves.



Remember : This is a first-edition League, organization will probably NOT be perfect and we'll surely face some issues at first, we'll need everybody's patience and goodwilling to make it happen. If it works, it'll be improved for next edition of course. So please be patient and trust the people behind the scene :)
 
As some people on GW can't talk in english, I'll be their voice. I'll be responsible of gathering all information about the tournament we need on GW.



Btw, I don't understand why Tolli's 100% speed mount is the only forbidden thing in this tournament. It isn't a real advantadge against noone, so I ask you to let him use it, as I see no reason to forbid it.
 
First of all, thanks for helping out :) I know some people in GW have already their team ready and are just waiting for the registration post, i hope this will be the same for people on Draenor, Burning Blade and Azjol'Nerub.



About the mount, forbidding it was a suggestion on the draft, for it is a nice advantage (rush at the start of an arena, race to get the "eye", kiting around pillars, ...), it gives Tolli the advantage of always being well positioned first (in Lordaeron to get to midfield - he can attack us really soon in Dalaran arena as well before anyone has time to go behind the boxes) and leaving people with no chance to kite.

Plus he's the only one in this bracket to have it. Those are the reasons why I think it wouldn't be fair to use it.



But again i understand that people wanna use everything they have, because they surely did a lot to get all items and stuff in game, and if it's for not using them, it's kind of annoying.

This "league" is not world PvP or battleground, it would be nice if at least we could all have the same running speed (even mounted).



Please guys share your opinion about using the 100%mount. And if i'm the only one who sees it this way, i will just allow it, no problem :)
 
Thing is 100% mount always gonna get the better positioning in arena. No matter if it's about taking the coffert in ruins or if it's running from a sap.
 
The only reason you're saying why you want to forbid this item it's because only Tolli has it. If we all had this mount, there wouldn't be any problem on using it. So you're saying that an item that we can all get should be forbidden if only a few people have it. This reminds me to Pendulum of Doom. Only 1-2 people in this bracket have it, should we forbid it too? No, because it's an extremly rare weapon and if you could get one, /clap, that's all, enjoy it.



Is it an advantadge? Yes, of course, but PoD is an advantadge too. There is no reason why you could use PoD and not this mount.



Edit: http://thottbot.com/i52200
 
any1 care to venture a guess at winning comp? im putting money on a priest/sumthing (lock or rogue mebe) but 100% a priest



ow and as for the mount, its his to use if he bought it....its just another item at the end of the day
 

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