Enhancement Shaman discussion.
- Thread starter Xaosync
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Fujin0
Legend
I meant ground speed (like Ghost Wolf) and it's 5 forms if you count laserowl, which IS available at our level.
OP
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Xaosync
Legend
Eh, on the subject against Enh against Healers or Hunters;
If you have water shield up through the fight, you won't die against a hunter, ever. The fact that he's even attacking you, means you won't die. Only a hunter that has a moth and can execute fluid controlled burst has a chance at taking out a skilled Enhancement Shaman (actually, any shaman that spams Healing Surge), but even the Lockout could be trinketed (Or does trinket only work for blanket silences and not spell lockouts?) or Juked.
An Enhancement Shaman will 1v1 a priest every time. No question about it. He will just completely out sustain the priest, which doesn't have the proper CC (blanket silences and spell lockouts) to combat any specced Shaman's sustain.
An Enhancement Shaman can only kill a druid, if the druid drops out of travel form to keep applying rejuv, the second the druid starts chain morphing to keep rejuv up, the Enhancement Shaman will always be guaranteed to catch up with him and secure a kill (Easy solution is to just try to outrun him, if you heal, you'll lose the fight.).
Paladins are easy because once they blow HoJ and Bubble it's all down hill from there. Even if it is a full mail (high armor) Holy paladin, which is pretty rare on it's own, given the better Int choices in the other armor sub-classes, Enhancement does primarily spell damage and wind shear at >35% will win the fight, because most Holy Paladins only start healing when they get low because they've been too busy spamming Denounce. Morphv is a perfect example of this. I kill him all the time on my enhancement shaman because his damage is always higher than his heals by at least 200%. Denounce spamming will always lose the fight.
The only healers Enhancement has trouble with are Restoration Shamans, for obvious reasons. And even then it's a close fight. Their primary healing spell can be purged, but they do have a solid spell lock-out which cripples Enhancement Shaman's sustain when used at the proper times.
These are all just my opinions based on my experience. At no point should the be considered factual by me or anyone else, therefore they aren't worth flaming over.
If you have water shield up through the fight, you won't die against a hunter, ever. The fact that he's even attacking you, means you won't die. Only a hunter that has a moth and can execute fluid controlled burst has a chance at taking out a skilled Enhancement Shaman (actually, any shaman that spams Healing Surge), but even the Lockout could be trinketed (Or does trinket only work for blanket silences and not spell lockouts?) or Juked.
An Enhancement Shaman will 1v1 a priest every time. No question about it. He will just completely out sustain the priest, which doesn't have the proper CC (blanket silences and spell lockouts) to combat any specced Shaman's sustain.
An Enhancement Shaman can only kill a druid, if the druid drops out of travel form to keep applying rejuv, the second the druid starts chain morphing to keep rejuv up, the Enhancement Shaman will always be guaranteed to catch up with him and secure a kill (Easy solution is to just try to outrun him, if you heal, you'll lose the fight.).
Paladins are easy because once they blow HoJ and Bubble it's all down hill from there. Even if it is a full mail (high armor) Holy paladin, which is pretty rare on it's own, given the better Int choices in the other armor sub-classes, Enhancement does primarily spell damage and wind shear at >35% will win the fight, because most Holy Paladins only start healing when they get low because they've been too busy spamming Denounce. Morphv is a perfect example of this. I kill him all the time on my enhancement shaman because his damage is always higher than his heals by at least 200%. Denounce spamming will always lose the fight.
The only healers Enhancement has trouble with are Restoration Shamans, for obvious reasons. And even then it's a close fight. Their primary healing spell can be purged, but they do have a solid spell lock-out which cripples Enhancement Shaman's sustain when used at the proper times.
These are all just my opinions based on my experience. At no point should the be considered factual by me or anyone else, therefore they aren't worth flaming over.
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Fujin0
Legend
Doesn't really work with 100 pet DPS+pushback, 300 Arcane Shot crits, 200 Serpent Sting crit ticks and 150 Auto Shot crits if my Elemental shamans (no looms yet) Surge heals for 1 Arcane Shot (~350, 700 crits), I can spam, but won't be able to do much damage so the fight will take forever.
It's absolutely obnoxious to face a 2k cyclopse without a brain.
OP
OP
Xaosync
Legend
Never said you'd beat him, just said you can't die. I've had 3 occasions in game today alone, where I've had a hunter jump me and I was able to stall him and stay alive until help arrived.
Shamans can 1v1 them in the sense that they won't/shouldn't lose the fight. Eventually flame/earth shock in between heals would kill them if you want to get technical about it.
Enhancement Shamans need roughly 1600(not recommended)-1900 HP in battlegrounds to not die to a full focus dump.
Marksman's a different story though, but I haven't had much experience against marksman hunters in this bracket. I think a marksman hunter would stand a much better chance against an Enhancement Shaman.
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R Prime
OG
Willix had a good response and I'll +1 that.
And - I do not believe an equally skilled enh sham will beat a disc priest/holy priest 1 v 1.
With BiS lava lash crits in the low 300s.
In cata my enh sham was a fucking beast and ate priests for breakfeast. Now it's the opposite.
Improvment? Hit harder - maybe an AP or Agi % bonus like with ferals and sub rogue spec.
Enh shammies already have all the cool tools just weak dps.
And - I do not believe an equally skilled enh sham will beat a disc priest/holy priest 1 v 1.
With BiS lava lash crits in the low 300s.
In cata my enh sham was a fucking beast and ate priests for breakfeast. Now it's the opposite.
Improvment? Hit harder - maybe an AP or Agi % bonus like with ferals and sub rogue spec.
Enh shammies already have all the cool tools just weak dps.
Fujin0
Legend
LLs and PS' base damage is rather low but they have good AP/Weapon damage-scaling, I would buff the base damage instead of giving straight AP/Agility buffs because then even an Enhancer that is still gearing up will do better damage. What I mean is, they buffed LL in 5.3 by '50%' (Lava Lash now deals 300% weapons damage, up from 250%.) but it doesn't hit that much harder because the total damage equation relies too much on base damage. Shield Slam for example scales horribly with AP but has about 150% of the warrior's AP as base damage (which is ridiculous) hence they still do about the same amount of damage as before (I still get hit by 400s on my mage and up to 800 crits, it IS less but it wasn't really any worse than that in 5.2).
Swoops
Legend
The biggest issue with Enhance at low levels is that PvP revolves around burst, and Enh burst is totally tied up in high level cooldowns. It's the same with Ret Pallies, Frost Mages, 5.0 hunters and WW monks. Enh is a decent spec with good utility, it's just missing the tools that its damage is balanced around.
willix
Legend
Here's some perspective for you:
@ 20 Primal Strike does about 30% of the damage that Lava Lash does. @ 29 Lava Lash does about 20% of the damage that Storm Strike does. I have a 29 enhance sham with double mongoose weapons, and the damage I do with double mongoose (OP) is comparable to a rogue without mongoose.
Even in 5.4, with enchants becoming useable for characters of any level, enhancement is STILL going to fall behind in viability.
R Prime
OG
Excellent points!