Engineering = worthless ?

[Grabco]

This is actually a very interesting topic, while I havent known anyone to master the use of these consumables, if they did they could be a force in WSG. Most people use them fleetingly when they remember and only a few people use the copper stun bombs well.



If someone could master all of the engineering devices I would say engineering would be >> than mining or skinning. This would only be for WSG and if you did arena's you would be at a serious disadvantage. I might end up trying this one day, are there any good engineers out there that can talk about the cooldowns on some of these? or just people waiting for fishing hat?

 

[Wraynebao]

I'm a terriscrub but I have something to say about using engineering devices.



First, they're all on the same cooldown, so you have to pick your uses carefully. If you [ITEM]Discombobulator Ray[/ITEM] a FC so that you can catch up with them, you're not going to be able to use [ITEM]Heavy Dynamite[/ITEM] to finish them off quicker, which you'd often want to do. Notably, they also share CD with [ITEM]Magic Candle[/ITEM] and [ITEM]Magic Dust[/ITEM] which are also very useful consumables.



I agree about folks using the stun bombs poorly. The fact that you have to stand in place while lighting them is a real downer. They're easy to use to run away from a melee 2v1 or 3v1, assuming you can live long enough to drop them. They could also help break up a strong flagroom defense, if someone dropped it off the flag room roof while another ran in to take advantage of the chaos.



How does everyone else like to use bombs?

 

[Pindakaas]

STFU engi goggles have bene a symbol of twinking for years there just cool+ go train your mining for that +2 stam extra lol. ow and Succes with fishing lucky fishing hat the fish has a drop chance of 99% -.-

 

[Grunge]

on the topic of bombs, yes, you do have to stand still to use them. 1v1 they're alright, when used in conjuction with other engineers you can more or less chain cc a target. very useful for burning a fc/ slowing down a tightly packed offence(like in the tunnels) or locking down healers.



Engi is far from useless, but there is a skill/timing/teamwork curve to learning to use it properly, you cant just chuck nades willy nilly and expect them to do their thing, unlike other profs that require one or no button pushes on your part.

 

[Wraynebao]

Oooh, I like the "drop a bomb in the tunnel to mass-CC / slow down a zerg"

 

[Conrose]

At 29's a pack of engineering Gnome Rogues with [item]10588[/item] and [item]10646[/item] is well... impossible to survive.



But this lower bracket the skill needed for optimal use of engineering has a high requirement.

 

[Jayeein]

Despite all the cool toys......



I'm having a hard time believing that engineering is worth giving up 250 hitpoints for (262 if you're a cow).

 

[Druiddroid]

dynamite deals ~150 damage, minor recombob restores ~200 health, explosive sheep deals some damage, goggles (80 hp w/out fishing hat), and of course in higher brackets you get iron grenades and other sweet trinkets/gear.



if you use the consumables (a big IF), then yes engineering is the best profession besides herbalism.

 

[Robertgoulet]

Despite all the cool toys......



I'm having a hard time believing that engineering is worth giving up 250 hitpoints for (262 if you're a cow).

Why what other prof gives you 250 more hp than engineering ?

 

[Conrose]

Despite all the cool toys......



I'm having a hard time believing that engineering is worth giving up 250 hitpoints for (262 if you're a cow).

When you see your healer get interrupted in the middle of a potentially FC saving heal by a bomb stun... it'll make sense.

 

[Druiddroid]

Why what other prof gives you 250 more hp than engineering ?

might be talking about JC

 

[Ramune]

Why what other prof gives you 250 more hp than engineering ?

this. also tauren racial hasn't applied to total stam in like a year.

 

[Jayeein]

Why what other prof gives you 250 more hp than engineering ?

Mining



The supposition is that you won't be changing out trinkets when one is on a cooldown... if you do then rock on



By picking engineering I'd think it would be safe to assume that you're going to use the

green tinted goggles = +8 stamina

minor recombobulater = instant heal

Total of +8 stamina



With Mining instead of engineering

+7 stamina from toughness

+12 stamina from 2nd (or first) arena grandmaster trinket

+15 stamina from Lucky fishing hat

Total of +34 stamina



34-8 = 26 stamina difference = 260 HP



Once again I'm not saying that there aren't some cool toys with eng... But for most of us 260 HP is going to equate to about 20% of our total health.



20% more health = a lot less dieing in close fights.

 

[Wraynebao]

Nobody is losing 260HP the way you calculate...



Engineers still use fishing hat if they have the luck to get one.... it's clearly BiS. Nobody would use [ITEM]Green Tinted Goggles[/ITEM] just for Engineering's sake unless they were more concerned with fashion than winning.



Similarly, engineers still use Arena Grand Master if they have it. People use [ITEM]Minor Recombobulator[/ITEM] instead of AGM only if they have to.



So, by choosing Engineering over Mining, a goal-oriented twink is losing 70HP, not 260.



Now, those 70HP may be more important to you than dynamite and stuff, but that'll depend upon your playstyle. It's not a crippling disadvantage to be missing those 70HP.

 

[Grunge]

a two second stun is two seconds you dont have 1 or more people breathing down your neck. id say thats worth some hp, but you cant math it out and say a stun= x amount of hp, though it buys you and your team time to act.



In a related instance any serious arena hunter will tell you that they'll use a bat or a ravenger over a spider or a hyena solely because their stuns are that important, even if they have long cd's. Imo this emphasis on stuns has some overlap into wsg, especially if you plan on premading.



What it comes down to, as in most every case, is preference and playstyle. Try different things, i mean really make a point of trying different playstyles, and see what works for you.



>>In my premading experience, bombs have absolutely, undoubtedly made the difference between winning and losing, but thats just me.

 

[Robertgoulet]

Mining



The supposition is that you won't be changing out trinkets when one is on a cooldown... if you do then rock on



By picking engineering I'd think it would be safe to assume that you're going to use the

green tinted goggles = +8 stamina

minor recombobulater = instant heal

Total of +8 stamina



With Mining instead of engineering

+7 stamina from toughness

+12 stamina from 2nd (or first) arena grandmaster trinket

+15 stamina from Lucky fishing hat

Total of +34 stamina



34-8 = 26 stamina difference = 260 HP



Once again I'm not saying that there aren't some cool toys with eng... But for most of us 260 HP is going to equate to about 20% of our total health.



20% more health = a lot less dieing in close fights.

Engineering vs Mining (asuming everyone has herbalism aswell)



Gearwise

theres no diference at top end (Fishing hat, AGMs)



Prof advantages



Mining: 70 extra hp



Engineering: Sheep 135-165 dmg

Big Bronze Bomb 85 - 115 Fire dmg +2 sec stun

Heavy Dynamite 128 - 172 Fire damg



I'd have just the Sheep over 70 hp anyday

 

[Bragh]

For a premade setup, The defense the support class, like shaman paladin should have Engi.

Main healer pref have skinning cause 1 crit heal saves you mana in the longer run. (my opinion thoug)



The FC should have Mining cause thats more HP and less overheal (which causes more mana to be wasted)



On offence everyone should prolly roll with engi. cause it's Dmg boosts + the stun is neat for obvious reasons

 

[ArthurianKnight]

basically what everyone is trying to tell you is that engineering is for those who prefer to play the game in a ready for everything way. those who think 70 hp is worth the trouble of losing dps and utility by dropping engi, actually fights only for kills and will wonder why it is usefull when they dont use any of it.



another problem people forget is that its not AGM that we switch for the healing trinket... its the insignia when its on CD ! nobody in their right mind would switch AGM unless he has a very good reason to do so ! as for the googles, they are still best in slot to me, as they give spirit for regen. of course i'm not speaking of during fights but outside of fights to regen your mana and your life !



i like engi for the sole fact that it is utility prof, a lot of thigns in there can keep you and your people alive. the trinket works not just on you, but on others as well, and i did save a few FC with it ! not to mention the trinket uses SP so any Spell Power casters can heal themselves for more then 150hp !



my healatron has like 100sp and it heals me for that much, so i'd say its a 100% rate on it. that alone is worth the trouble for any casters !





my hunter is skinning / engi as said, and if i had lucky fishing hat, i'd go herb / skin... so again i think its all dependant on your play style and your class !

 

[shanker]

you get 8 stam and spirit with minor armor from green tinted goggles. 225 mining gives 7 stam. so i went mining till i get the fishing hat.



however with the anouncement of "reforging" there may be a possiblity to turn the spirit into a stat 50% of the stat you want to convert. so the goggles may be turned into:



8stam/4agi

8stam/4int

8stam/4str



so engineering may become a must again twink profession

 

[Wraynebao]

8stam/4agi

8stam/4int

8stam/4str

so engineering may become a must again twink profession

For a lot of people, 7 Stam will be better than 4 of any other stat, though this will be something worth considering for special occasions