Ending F2P & Veteran arguments

[Light]

Simple. This might cause an affect of change or it might not. I'm not even sure now if mods are "dealing" with the annoying situation. However there is something that we can do. The members of TI do have a voice and should be used to persuade or help to point out the right directions that mods should be taking. I at least would like to know if Shane is even considering making a new section for Veterans.

Please do take this into consideration, what we in twinkinfo want to see happening.

A lot of arguments have occurred on what "f2p" means so lets just settle it here and now, no? the majority should come out on top and will affect the decision on were Veterans should post their stuff. How can there be any unfairness... this is all about majority. Not adding any 4th option crap. This is just to decide on what were going to do with veteran posts. I mean think about it we dont even know what their plotting (mods). They could come out with a decision no one will enjoy. So lets speak up. Majority wins please no BS.
Its not just the guides and Rate-A-Twink.. its mostly everything.. what will happen in the future? Im seeing disagreements on Veterans posting stuff in the F2P section.

I want only the people associated with F2P to vote.
If you dont not associate with F2P, please do not vote, because then we might get inaccurate votes on who the majority and minority is.

 

[Kilda]

Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is the difference between a regular F2P account and 'Vet account'?

 

[Light]

Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is the difference between a regular F2P account and 'Vet account'?

I am not allowed to answer that question is really varies on personal opinions and there are many arguments being made on TI about it. That's why I made this thread to end those arguments and just to focus on the decision of the majority. Now let's hope people won't come in here and spam arguments just to answer your question.

 

[Kilda]

I am not allowed to answer that question is really varies on personal opinions and there are many arguments being made on TI about it. That's why I made this thread to end those arguments and just to focus on the decision of the majority. Now let's hope people won't come in here and spam arguments just to answer your question.

Okay, lets try a different question.

Once my subscription expires, what differences will my 'vet account' have to that of a regular F2P account? By differences I am talking about limitations, i.e Ability to form groups, use the AH, mailbox, gold cap etc.

 

[Annymous]

Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is the difference between a regular F2P account and 'Vet account'?

The difference is the gear. Payment doesn't matter. If you're wearing Guild heirlooms then you're no longer F2P.

More accurate terms from now on would be "Pay to Gear" and "Free to Gear."

 

[Recluse]

Selma just had its 50th anniversary of the historic "Bloody Sunday", and we try so hard to separate the F2P and P2P forums...

Why does it matter? Many F2P with P2P accounts still post about the 20-29 bracket here. It's not a question of ethics, this is a video game. Why is this bracket separated when we're all posting about very similar content? What do we gain by splitting a bracket in half when we could easily label a post as "F2P" or "P2P" just like we do with "EU" and "US" threads?

 

[arcade99]

Okay, lets try a different question.

Once my subscription expires, what differences will my 'vet account' have to that of a regular F2P account? By differences I am talking about limitations, i.e Ability to form groups, use the AH, mailbox, gold cap etc.

Nothing. You get a neat little guild name below your name, but you cant use the gb, apply enchants, nor create profession items above 100. The problem is that you will have available, gear and enchants that were only obtainable while subscribed; that is what the fuss is about.
The actual enchants.

 

[artonkn]

Okay, lets try a different question.

Once my subscription expires, what differences will my 'vet account' have to that of a regular F2P account? By differences I am talking about limitations, i.e Ability to form groups, use the AH, mailbox, gold cap etc.

At that point nothing, except you can join guilds you've already got other characters in. If you already have over 10g, you keep the excess. However during the month or whatever you had, you could've got anything and kept it.

 

[Allybeboba]

Nothing. You get a neat little guild name below your name, but you cant use the gb, apply enchants, nor create profession items above 100. The problem is that you will have available, gear and enchants that were only obtainable while subscribed; that is what the fuss is about.
The actual enchants.

I think this may put it in perspective for some.
There are some trials that have been using ill gotten gear for years, myself included. But I have always kept a set of fully restricted gear if I wanted to do any Trial world events. You people are making a mountain out of a mole hill. If you want to argue about nothing, the debate club is right down the hall.

/cheers
Sweetsidney

 

[arcade99]

I think this may put it in perspective for some.
There are some trials that have been using ill gotten gear for years, myself included. But I have always kept a set of fully restricted gear if I wanted to do any Trial world events. You people are making a mountain out of a mole hill. If you want to argue about nothing, the debate club is right down the hall.

/cheers
Sweetsidney

I understand, I also just finished my f2p restricted set. I also understand the unfairness in games when against an f2p team. I have not set any gear "restrictions" in our horde guild on AP just because most of the players are just trying gear up their vets. I do know of many vet players that will work on their restricted set, as soon as they run out of game time. My previous statement was not to start a debate. I was simply answering the question that was asked. I also pointed out what the cause of the fuss was about. I honestly do believe the enchants are what the whole argument is about.

 

[TheFupaKing]

so...

Starter Edition Account = F2P Account

Starter Edition Account linked to a Subbed Account = F2P Account

Upgraded Starter Edition Account = VET Account

Upgraded Starter Edition Account linked to a Subbed Account = VET Account

The access to ridiculous enchants changes everything on a starter. I don't think having access to guild heirlooms makes you a vet. If a starter was upgraded, it's no longer a f2p.
It would make sense to give vets a section. IMO

<3

 

[Stamm]

I will repeat what I have stated before. Information could be posted in either place, and if someone has a question about that information, hopefully they'll be intelligent enough to look both places, or just use the forum search function. Not gonna make up a statistic, but most of the arguing is done over classifications. This wouldn't be an issue if you would stop making it an issue.

I plead with the mods and the community that any pointless threads regarding dividing the community simply be locked upon sight. If someone has a question whether a certain item falls into f2p or veteran classifications, that's fine, but this whole clusterfuck is purely political and entirely unnecessary.

 

[Digitaldreams]

Selma just had its 50th anniversary of the historic "Bloody Sunday", and we try so hard to separate the F2P and P2P forums...

Why does it matter? Many F2P with P2P accounts still post about the 20-29 bracket here. It's not a question of ethics, this is a video game. Why is this bracket separated when we're all posting about very similar content? What do we gain by splitting a bracket in half when we could easily label a post as "F2P" or "P2P" just like we do with "EU" and "US" threads?

I agree so much, with all the different variations now it seems silly to keep on segragating. I have unmodified pure f2ps i'm very attached to made in the Cata era, a 24, a 29 and a vet so I have no idea where I am welcome to be honest, it's all confusing. But when it comes down to it, we all play in the same bracket. It perpetuates rivalry having things split. Kincaide actually said they were discussing merging everything except guides, or re-labeling to 20-29 and 20 alternative twinking. There is no option for those on the poll though.

As far as the particular poll is concerned I feel vets should be able to post in both. Expired accounts may wish to join in or ask for advice on achievement hunting with the restrictions, or any restricted related question. Maybe even gearing help that f2ps would be qualified most to answer. Active accounts may wish to ask about enchant advice - which the p2p section would probably be most informed to answer. I really think Kincaide hit on the mark with having gearing guides in different sections, which is basically what differentiates us, and all merged for everything else.

 

[Bop]

Stop presenting arguments. That has been done 1000 times.

Vote, please.

 

[Light]

I agree so much, with all the different variations now it seems silly to keep on segragating. I have unmodified pure f2ps i'm very attached to made in the Cata era, a 24, a 29 and a vet so I have no idea where I am welcome to be honest, it's all confusing. But when it comes down to it, we all play in the same bracket. It perpetuates rivalry having things split. Kincaide actually said they were discussing merging everything except guides, or re-labeling to 20-29 and 20 alternative twinking. There is no option for those on the poll though.

As far as the particular poll is concerned I feel vets should be able to post in both. Expired accounts may wish to join in or ask for advice on achievement hunting with the restrictions, or any restricted related question. Maybe even gearing help that f2ps would be qualified most to answer. Active accounts may wish to ask about enchant advice - which the p2p section would probably be most informed to answer. I really think Kincaide hit on the mark with having gearing guides in different sections, which is basically what differentiates us, and all merged for everything else.

There is no option because its not neccesary. If the vets stay in f2p, they are freely to post (vet) next to their title threads. Over all IMO pointless to make vets post on BOTH sections...

Its like saying ALL f2ps should post on 20-29 just make sure to lable it (f2p)

See what I mean?? Your kind of a hypocrite if you don't agree..

 

[Allybeboba]

How about get rid of the damn F2P section and be done with. Why does everyone have to be a special snowflake? I am sure your Mommy thinks you are special. Just ask her.

/cheers
Sweetsidney

 

[yasueh]

I've been playing PC games for 25 years, and when I started you could either get your games in a box from the store, or for free (without pirating them). It was called shareware, because you were allowed to copy the game onto floppy disks and give them to friends (or you payed postage to get a set of disks). However, the distinction between 'Free-to-Play' and 'Pay-to-Play' didn't exist, not until online gaming. Specifically referring to subscription games.

I think the root of the problem is that a subset of WoW F2P players have a flawed understanding of what is meant by 'Free-to-Play', probably because they don't actually play any other F2P games, and aren't familiar with how the term is used in a broader context, outside of WoW. Free-to-Play does not mean you do not ever pay anything towards the game, no matter what the purists would like to believe.

You can look it up on wikipedia. Free-to-Play refers to a game with the following qualities.

• You do not have to pay anything to access at least some playable content (although you may choose to pay to access more content).
• You do not have to pay a subscription to continue accessing that content.

All Veteran Edition did was add 'Freemium' content to WoW's Starter Edition (and the cost of upgrading to a full account for a month falls well within the concept of a microtransaction). Paying for access to that content does not stop you from being a part of Free-to-Play, the same as me dropping $200 on Firefall or $80 on Warframe haven't stopped them from being F2P games, or me from being a player of F2P games.

 

[Digitaldreams]

There is no option because its not neccesary. If the vets stay in f2p, they are freely to post (vet) next to their title threads. Over all IMO pointless to make vets post on BOTH sections...

Its like saying ALL f2ps should post on 20-29 just make sure to lable it (f2p)

See what I mean?? Your kind of a hypocrite if you don't agree..

Well I can't vote, I don't think vets should be excluded from either and a new section is okay but not ideal. Vets need advice from both sides of the community and don't really fit in either section fully. Being not allowed to post or join in the fun in one section doesn't make sense to me when they are a bit of both depending on the state of the sub. Having another sub section is fine but it's more segragation issues longterm as Kincaide said. How fragmented do we want the bracket to become?! All being united besides gearing guides makes the most sense to me now this bracket is evolving even further. It's fine if you don't agree but I guess i'm a peace lover, i'd love everyone to get along and tame the divides.

 

[Klinda]

Yasueh made a very good point, many people think that once you pay for something it is no longer "free" and as such, can not be considered free to play. If you look at several games on the Steam F2P section and their vast collection of free to play titles, you'll see that they are indeed free to play, but that doesn't mean that you can't access paid content, even if you do end up paying for something like cosmetics, the game is still F2P itself. In the same way, f2p is like this as well. You don't have to pay any money, but you can to get some things you wouldn't normally be able to get. Is it still F2P? As long as you stay lvl 20, yes. And what about people here who use their free 7 or 10 day game time to get these things? That's still f2p either way.

Anyway, I voted, but Kincaide said this which makes a really good point and really made me wonder if polls were a good way to look at this or not.

People are likely to vote based on their community identity, whereas we aim to organize the site based on best organization and access to information. Polls therefore won't necessarily reflect the best interests of the organization of the site, could be polluted by non-interested parties (or negatively-interested outside parties) skewing the results, and would imply a social contract with the admins that we either follow the results of the poll or we have "ignored the users". That's not how it works exactly. We're happy to have people talk about it, to a point, but in the end we're going to do what Shane, guided by our input, deems best.

 

[yasueh]

And even if the game is pay-to-win, like WoW is with access to better gear, it's still free-to-play after you've payed for that gear. It's not just about paying for cosmetics or convenience, like faster levelling (although it is in the better F2P games, because they don't exploit pay-to-win as a means to encourage purchases).