Effects of the Item Squish

Aelobin

Aelobin

DK Twink (80 / 85 / 101)
TL;DR: All the 2h weapons that drop from WotLK raids have near enough the same DPS. The 409s have lost 95% of their gain over the 284s but are still slightly better (unless gems are enough to make the difference).

Using Wowhead's alpha data (which may or may not be accurate), I've compared the dps of 2h level 80 weapons to see how much of an upgrade each one is relative to the difficulties around it. The only significant increases were from ilvl 200 to 213 and the 409 weapon, which means most of the Wrath gear is probably going to have similar power regardless of where it drops.

After the squish, it looks like level 80s should end up being weaker fighting against level 70 twinks but stronger against level 85 twinks, compared to how they are at the moment.


Naxxramas:
- Naxx 10N (200) -> Naxx 25N (213) = +6.07% (was 13.15%)
- Naxx 10N (200) -> KT 10N (213) = +6.07% (was 13.15%)
- Naxx 25N (213) -> KT 25N (226) = +0.25% (was 13.35%)
So: Naxx 10N < [KT 10N = Naxx 25N] ~= KT 25N
So: 200 < [213, 226]


Ulduar:
- Naxx 10N (200) -> Uld 10N (219) = +6.21% (was 19.86%)
- KT 10N (213) -> Uld 10N (219) = +0.13% (was 5.93%)
- Uld 10N (219) -> Uld 10HM (232) = +0.25% (was 13.41%)
- Naxx 25N (213) -> Uld 25N (232) = +0.38% (was 20.14%)
- KT 25N (226) -> Uld 25N (232) = +0.13% (was 5.98%)
- Uld 25N (232) -> Uld 25HM (239) = +0.13% (was 7.09%)
- Uld 10N (219) -> Uld 25N (232) = +0.25% (was 13.41%)
- Uld 10HM (232) -> Uld 25HM (239) = +0.13% (was 7.09%)
So: Naxx 10N < [KT 10N = Naxx 25N] ~= KT 25N ~= Uld 10N ~= [Uld 10HM = Uld 25N] ~= Uld 25HM
So: 200 < [213, 219, 226, 232, 239]


Trial of the Crusader:
- Uld 10N (219) -> ToC 10N (232) = +0.25% (was 13.41%)
- Uld 10HM (232) -> ToC 10N (232) = +0.00% (was 0.00%)
- ToC 10N (232) -> ToC 10H (245) = +0.25% (was 13.58%)
- Uld 25N (232) -> ToC 25N (245) = +0.25% (was 13.58%)
- Uld 25HM (239) -> ToC 25N (245) = +0.13% (was 6.07%)
- ToC 25N (245) -> ToC 25H (258) = +0.25% (was 13.74%)
- ToC 10N (232) -> ToC 25N (245) = +0.25% (was 13.58%)
- ToC 10H (245) -> ToC 25H (258) = +0.25% (was 13.74%)
So: Uld 10N ~= [Uld 10HM = Uld 25N = ToC 10N] ~= Uld 25HM ~= [ToC 10H = ToC 25N] ~= ToC 25H
So: [219, 232, 245, 258]


Icecrown Citadel:
- ToC 10N (232) -> ICC 10N (251) = +0.38% (was 20.52%)
- ToC 10H (245) -> ICC 10N (251) = +0.13% (was 6.11%)
- ICC 10N (251) -> LK 10N (258) = +0.13% (was 7.20%)
- ICC 10N (251) -> ICC 10H (264) = +0.25% (was 13.80%)
- ICC 10H (264) -> LK 10H (271) = +0.13% (was 7.27%)
- ToC 25N (245) -> ICC 25N (264) = +0.38% (was 20.76%)
- ToC 25H (258) -> ICC 25N (264) = +0.13% (was 6.16%)
- ICC 25N (264) -> LK 25N (271) = +0.13% (was 7.27%)
- ICC 25N (264) -> ICC 25H (277) = +0.25% (was 13.97%)
- ICC 25H (277) -> LK 25H (284) = -1.01% (was 8.46%)
- ICC 10N (251) -> ICC 25N (264) = +0.25% (was 13.80%)
- LK 10N (258) -> LK 25N (271) = +0.25% (was 13.88%)
- ICC 10H (264) -> ICC 25H (277) = +0.25% (was 13.97%)
- LK 10H (271) -> LK 25H (284) = -0.88% (was 15.23%)
So: LK 25H ~= ToC 10N ~= [ToC 10H = ToC 25N] ~= ICC 10N ~= [ToC 25H = LK 10N] ~= [ICC 10H = ICC 25N] ~= [LK 10H = LK 25N] ~= ICC 25H
So: [284, 232, 245, 251, 258, 264, 271, 277]


Cataclysm/Mists of Pandaria:
- LK 25H (284) -> Cata 5man (308) = -2.79% (was 11.70%)
- LK 25H (284) -> MoP BoE (409) = +10.15% (was 186.28%)
- Cata 5man (308) -> MoP BoE (409) = +13.32% (was 156.29%)
So: Cata 5man < LK 25H < MoP BoE
So: 308 < 284 < 409


Comparisons:
- Naxx 10N (200) -> LK 25H (284) = +6.34% (was 130.45%)
- Naxx 10N (200) -> LK 10H (271) = +7.29% (was 100.00%)
- Naxx 25N (213) -> LK 25H (284) = +0.25% (was 103.67%)
- L70 (164) -> L80 (284) = +17.61% (was 221.55%)
- L70 (164) -> L80 (409) = +29.55% (was 820.53%)
- L80 (284) -> L85 (416) = +9.64% (was 205.56%)
- L80 (409) -> L85 (491) = +42.51% (was 114.68%)
- L80 (409) -> L90 (580) = +202.07% (was 356.64%)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
With the "twink items" being this close to the top-tier items of the bracket's expansion, will twinks rather just be at about the same power level as a BiS character from that expansion? Opinions?
 
man i hope twinking (pvp) becomes a big thing again in warlords.. i wanna be active on some of my toons again..
 
SuperSirius said:
http://i.imgur.com/hDLlFRa.jpg
and http://i.imgur.com/ThYSrJY.jpg

taken from Assurance of Consequence Post Item Squish+ NEW STATS! (Leave requests for items and ill take a picture for you!) : wow

I don't think its a sandbox since it has items in and usually sandboxes/private servers use databases for item information and such. I think this may be on the actual alpha
Click to expand...

It's a private server. Look at this picture: http://i.imgur.com/LZbGsHh.jpg "may be traded soon" also look what he's dual wielding.
 
What interests me more is the pristine: http://i.imgur.com/8DlEoC6.jpg
and the guy writing "More likely it's part of the system where some leveling/quest drops may end up being rare or epic (and get higher stats) to add some diversity to the leveling process."
Perhabs that could mean certain pristine items could become bis for 90 twinks.
 
Aelobin said:
TL;DR: All the 2h weapons that drop from WotLK raids have near enough the same DPS. The 409s have lost 95% of their gain over the 284s but are still slightly better (unless gems are enough to make the difference).

Using Wowhead's alpha data (which may or may not be accurate), I've compared the dps of 2h level 80 weapons to see how much of an upgrade each one is relative to the difficulties around it. The only significant increases were from ilvl 200 to 213 and the 409 weapon, which means most of the Wrath gear is probably going to have similar power regardless of where it drops.

After the squish, it looks like level 80s should end up being weaker fighting against level 70 twinks but stronger against level 85 twinks, compared to how they are at the moment.


Naxxramas:
- Naxx 10N (200) -> Naxx 25N (213) = +6.07% (was 13.15%)
- Naxx 10N (200) -> KT 10N (213) = +6.07% (was 13.15%)
- Naxx 25N (213) -> KT 25N (226) = +0.25% (was 13.35%)
So: Naxx 10N < [KT 10N = Naxx 25N] ~= KT 25N
So: 200 < [213, 226]


Ulduar:
- Naxx 10N (200) -> Uld 10N (219) = +6.21% (was 19.86%)
- KT 10N (213) -> Uld 10N (219) = +0.13% (was 5.93%)
- Uld 10N (219) -> Uld 10HM (232) = +0.25% (was 13.41%)
- Naxx 25N (213) -> Uld 25N (232) = +0.38% (was 20.14%)
- KT 25N (226) -> Uld 25N (232) = +0.13% (was 5.98%)
- Uld 25N (232) -> Uld 25HM (239) = +0.13% (was 7.09%)
- Uld 10N (219) -> Uld 25N (232) = +0.25% (was 13.41%)
- Uld 10HM (232) -> Uld 25HM (239) = +0.13% (was 7.09%)
So: Naxx 10N < [KT 10N = Naxx 25N] ~= KT 25N ~= Uld 10N ~= [Uld 10HM = Uld 25N] ~= Uld 25HM
So: 200 < [213, 219, 226, 232, 239]


Trial of the Crusader:
- Uld 10N (219) -> ToC 10N (232) = +0.25% (was 13.41%)
- Uld 10HM (232) -> ToC 10N (232) = +0.00% (was 0.00%)
- ToC 10N (232) -> ToC 10H (245) = +0.25% (was 13.58%)
- Uld 25N (232) -> ToC 25N (245) = +0.25% (was 13.58%)
- Uld 25HM (239) -> ToC 25N (245) = +0.13% (was 6.07%)
- ToC 25N (245) -> ToC 25H (258) = +0.25% (was 13.74%)
- ToC 10N (232) -> ToC 25N (245) = +0.25% (was 13.58%)
- ToC 10H (245) -> ToC 25H (258) = +0.25% (was 13.74%)
So: Uld 10N ~= [Uld 10HM = Uld 25N = ToC 10N] ~= Uld 25HM ~= [ToC 10H = ToC 25N] ~= ToC 25H
So: [219, 232, 245, 258]


Icecrown Citadel:
- ToC 10N (232) -> ICC 10N (251) = +0.38% (was 20.52%)
- ToC 10H (245) -> ICC 10N (251) = +0.13% (was 6.11%)
- ICC 10N (251) -> LK 10N (258) = +0.13% (was 7.20%)
- ICC 10N (251) -> ICC 10H (264) = +0.25% (was 13.80%)
- ICC 10H (264) -> LK 10H (271) = +0.13% (was 7.27%)
- ToC 25N (245) -> ICC 25N (264) = +0.38% (was 20.76%)
- ToC 25H (258) -> ICC 25N (264) = +0.13% (was 6.16%)
- ICC 25N (264) -> LK 25N (271) = +0.13% (was 7.27%)
- ICC 25N (264) -> ICC 25H (277) = +0.25% (was 13.97%)
- ICC 25H (277) -> LK 25H (284) = -1.01% (was 8.46%)
- ICC 10N (251) -> ICC 25N (264) = +0.25% (was 13.80%)
- LK 10N (258) -> LK 25N (271) = +0.25% (was 13.88%)
- ICC 10H (264) -> ICC 25H (277) = +0.25% (was 13.97%)
- LK 10H (271) -> LK 25H (284) = -0.88% (was 15.23%)
So: LK 25H ~= ToC 10N ~= [ToC 10H = ToC 25N] ~= ICC 10N ~= [ToC 25H = LK 10N] ~= [ICC 10H = ICC 25N] ~= [LK 10H = LK 25N] ~= ICC 25H
So: [284, 232, 245, 251, 258, 264, 271, 277]


Cataclysm/Mists of Pandaria:
- LK 25H (284) -> Cata 5man (308) = -2.79% (was 11.70%)
- LK 25H (284) -> MoP BoE (409) = +10.15% (was 186.28%)
- Cata 5man (308) -> MoP BoE (409) = +13.32% (was 156.29%)
So: Cata 5man < LK 25H < MoP BoE
So: 308 < 284 < 409


Comparisons:
- Naxx 10N (200) -> LK 25H (284) = +6.34% (was 130.45%)
- Naxx 10N (200) -> LK 10H (271) = +7.29% (was 100.00%)
- Naxx 25N (213) -> LK 25H (284) = +0.25% (was 103.67%)
- L70 (164) -> L80 (284) = +17.61% (was 221.55%)
- L70 (164) -> L80 (409) = +29.55% (was 820.53%)
- L80 (284) -> L85 (416) = +9.64% (was 205.56%)
- L80 (409) -> L85 (491) = +42.51% (was 114.68%)
- L80 (409) -> L90 (580) = +202.07% (was 356.64%)
Click to expand...

Very nice observations man, I'm getting more and more excited about this because I don't care too much for MoP blues and it looks like blizzard is finally putting value back in legendary's and purple gear which is a smart move.
 
FrozenWill said:
Aelobin said:
TL;DR: All the 2h weapons that drop from WotLK raids have near enough the same DPS. The 409s have lost 95% of their gain over the 284s but are still slightly better (unless gems are enough to make the difference).

Using Wowhead's alpha data (which may or may not be accurate), I've compared the dps of 2h level 80 weapons to see how much of an upgrade each one is relative to the difficulties around it. The only significant increases were from ilvl 200 to 213 and the 409 weapon, which means most of the Wrath gear is probably going to have similar power regardless of where it drops.

After the squish, it looks like level 80s should end up being weaker fighting against level 70 twinks but stronger against level 85 twinks, compared to how they are at the moment.


Naxxramas:
- Naxx 10N (200) -> Naxx 25N (213) = +6.07% (was 13.15%)
- Naxx 10N (200) -> KT 10N (213) = +6.07% (was 13.15%)
- Naxx 25N (213) -> KT 25N (226) = +0.25% (was 13.35%)
So: Naxx 10N < [KT 10N = Naxx 25N] ~= KT 25N
So: 200 < [213, 226]


Ulduar:
- Naxx 10N (200) -> Uld 10N (219) = +6.21% (was 19.86%)
- KT 10N (213) -> Uld 10N (219) = +0.13% (was 5.93%)
- Uld 10N (219) -> Uld 10HM (232) = +0.25% (was 13.41%)
- Naxx 25N (213) -> Uld 25N (232) = +0.38% (was 20.14%)
- KT 25N (226) -> Uld 25N (232) = +0.13% (was 5.98%)
- Uld 25N (232) -> Uld 25HM (239) = +0.13% (was 7.09%)
- Uld 10N (219) -> Uld 25N (232) = +0.25% (was 13.41%)
- Uld 10HM (232) -> Uld 25HM (239) = +0.13% (was 7.09%)
So: Naxx 10N < [KT 10N = Naxx 25N] ~= KT 25N ~= Uld 10N ~= [Uld 10HM = Uld 25N] ~= Uld 25HM
So: 200 < [213, 219, 226, 232, 239]


Trial of the Crusader:
- Uld 10N (219) -> ToC 10N (232) = +0.25% (was 13.41%)
- Uld 10HM (232) -> ToC 10N (232) = +0.00% (was 0.00%)
- ToC 10N (232) -> ToC 10H (245) = +0.25% (was 13.58%)
- Uld 25N (232) -> ToC 25N (245) = +0.25% (was 13.58%)
- Uld 25HM (239) -> ToC 25N (245) = +0.13% (was 6.07%)
- ToC 25N (245) -> ToC 25H (258) = +0.25% (was 13.74%)
- ToC 10N (232) -> ToC 25N (245) = +0.25% (was 13.58%)
- ToC 10H (245) -> ToC 25H (258) = +0.25% (was 13.74%)
So: Uld 10N ~= [Uld 10HM = Uld 25N = ToC 10N] ~= Uld 25HM ~= [ToC 10H = ToC 25N] ~= ToC 25H
So: [219, 232, 245, 258]


Icecrown Citadel:
- ToC 10N (232) -> ICC 10N (251) = +0.38% (was 20.52%)
- ToC 10H (245) -> ICC 10N (251) = +0.13% (was 6.11%)
- ICC 10N (251) -> LK 10N (258) = +0.13% (was 7.20%)
- ICC 10N (251) -> ICC 10H (264) = +0.25% (was 13.80%)
- ICC 10H (264) -> LK 10H (271) = +0.13% (was 7.27%)
- ToC 25N (245) -> ICC 25N (264) = +0.38% (was 20.76%)
- ToC 25H (258) -> ICC 25N (264) = +0.13% (was 6.16%)
- ICC 25N (264) -> LK 25N (271) = +0.13% (was 7.27%)
- ICC 25N (264) -> ICC 25H (277) = +0.25% (was 13.97%)
- ICC 25H (277) -> LK 25H (284) = -1.01% (was 8.46%)
- ICC 10N (251) -> ICC 25N (264) = +0.25% (was 13.80%)
- LK 10N (258) -> LK 25N (271) = +0.25% (was 13.88%)
- ICC 10H (264) -> ICC 25H (277) = +0.25% (was 13.97%)
- LK 10H (271) -> LK 25H (284) = -0.88% (was 15.23%)
So: LK 25H ~= ToC 10N ~= [ToC 10H = ToC 25N] ~= ICC 10N ~= [ToC 25H = LK 10N] ~= [ICC 10H = ICC 25N] ~= [LK 10H = LK 25N] ~= ICC 25H
So: [284, 232, 245, 251, 258, 264, 271, 277]


Cataclysm/Mists of Pandaria:
- LK 25H (284) -> Cata 5man (308) = -2.79% (was 11.70%)
- LK 25H (284) -> MoP BoE (409) = +10.15% (was 186.28%)
- Cata 5man (308) -> MoP BoE (409) = +13.32% (was 156.29%)
So: Cata 5man < LK 25H < MoP BoE
So: 308 < 284 < 409


Comparisons:
- Naxx 10N (200) -> LK 25H (284) = +6.34% (was 130.45%)
- Naxx 10N (200) -> LK 10H (271) = +7.29% (was 100.00%)
- Naxx 25N (213) -> LK 25H (284) = +0.25% (was 103.67%)
- L70 (164) -> L80 (284) = +17.61% (was 221.55%)
- L70 (164) -> L80 (409) = +29.55% (was 820.53%)
- L80 (284) -> L85 (416) = +9.64% (was 205.56%)
- L80 (409) -> L85 (491) = +42.51% (was 114.68%)
- L80 (409) -> L90 (580) = +202.07% (was 356.64%)
Click to expand...


Very nice observations man, I'm getting more and more excited about this because I don't care too much for MoP blues and it looks like blizzard is finally putting value back in legendary's and purple gear which is a smart move.
Click to expand...

yes
 
SuperSirius said:
Want to bump this back up to the front to help bring out some light.

Warlords of Draenor Theorycraft Discussion - Forums - World of Warcraft

Same thing should apply to wrath stuff, pretty sure we are going to see a dip in our relative power come wod. Once the allow ally side in the alpha testing I'll copy over my 80 pally and see what has changed.

Basic reason why they did this because the content isn't relevant anymore as a progression state.
Click to expand...

The "Alternate Inter-Expansion Damage Adjustments" will mean that higher item level is still better for appropriate level PvE content.

Unless they change the system to add some form of cap to the damage reduction, level 80s will be completely invincible against WotLK raid bosses if they have 300+ ilvl.

Will test it out when EU character copies are working :)
 
Honestly hopefull they don't have it so that its completely based off of Ilvl so that a plate wearer wears caster 409 cloth/leather/mail just to do more damage in raids n stuff, that'd be rediculous
 
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