Damage discrepancies between grandfathered "spec" twinks and fresh "unspecced" twinks

Jonnes

Jonnes

Level One-Derful
I just updated the race and class section of my guide heavily for more detail. However, there's some more stuff I'd like to update in the class section and I'll need a bit of help.

You guys know how rogues made before specs weren't the default (assassination for rogues) have +20 max energy? Well, that's not the only thing. They also hit harder with their sinister strikes.

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On the flipside, grandfathered Paladins (retribution spec) hit SOFTER with their crusader strikes.

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I decided to check this because I was thinking about how on my level 10 druid that I use for farming, restoration spec has a much stronger Moonfire than balance.

I've added these details to the new and improved class section of the guide, and for those of you with a grandfathered level 1

-Druid
-Priest
-Shaman
-Mage

Please post comparisons (naked or wearing white gear) between freshly created and grandfathered ability damage. I don't have grandfathered level ones of those classes so I can't do it myself. Alternatively, you can also do anything that isn't a rogue or paladin to save me the trouble.
 
Jonnes said:
I decided to check this because I was thinking about how on my level 10 druid that I use for farming, restoration spec has a much stronger Moonfire than balance.
Click to expand...
This irritated me so much because I wanted nothing more than be Balance on my 10 but there just isn't any reason to do so when it's weaker in every way than Resto.
 
Not sure if I have any of these will check when I get home tonight.
Been some interesting changes in under-10 specs ever since squish.
Like I have a level 6 holy paladin who is Int based but any new paladin I roll would be Str based until 10 afaik.
Doesn't get access to Holy spells at 6 ofc, but Judgement hits like a truck.
Very interesting to see these differences come into play even at Level 1, great find.
 
Any value in the mop weapons when certain specs were changed? Have a level 1 monk with the swords and a warrior with two axes despite only being able to equip one :p
 
Monks get absolutely wrecked

Windwalker monks at 1

-Can dual wield
-Hit harder with tiger palm
-Have a lower gcd
-Have chi

Specless monks at 1

-Can't dual wield
-Hit softer with tiger palm
-Have a longer GCD
-No Chi

Also:
New mages hit harder than old mages.
Warlocks hit the same, old and new.
New priests hit harder than old priests.

Images for those four in the guide. All we need is a comparison between old and new druids and shamans.
 
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Jonnes said:
Monks get absolutely wrecked

Windwalker monks at 1

-Can dual wield
-Hit harder with tiger palm
-Have a lower gcd
-Have chi

Specless monks at 1

-Can't dual wield
-Hit softer with tiger palm
-Have a longer GCD
-No Chi

Also:
New mages hit harder than old mages.
Warlocks hit the same, old and new.
New priests hit harder than old priests.

Images for those four in the guide. All we need is a comparison between old and new druids and shamans.
Click to expand...
Monks though.. holy. Didn't someone just level there 1 twink monk to level 2..
 
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Dogpiling on for Human Paladin...

PhenomTitan said:
My TBC human paladins Crusader strike is only 11 on the tooltip naked
Click to expand...

Confirming this. For some reason, we also have mastery that isn't utilised, but everything else (outside of base Crusader Strike dmg) is the same.

Grandfathered toon
gf.jpg

gf1.jpg


New toon
new.jpg

new1.jpg
 
lvlonefun said:
Dogpiling on for Human Paladin...



Confirming this. For some reason, we also have mastery that isn't utilised, but everything else (outside of base Crusader Strike dmg) is the same.

Grandfathered toon
View attachment 18717
View attachment 18718

New toon
View attachment 18719
View attachment 18720
Click to expand...
yeah this confirms the same thing as in the first post, just without weapons and -2 strength between dwarf and human. Pretty consistent.
[doublepost=1615529188,1615528630][/doublepost]
wLvhezi.jpg

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Shamans confirmed the same. All that's left is druid, which is predicted by the spec tooltip to be dealing less if they have the spec.
 
Jonnes said:
Monks get absolutely wrecked

Windwalker monks at 1

-Can dual wield
-Hit harder with tiger palm
-Have a lower gcd
-Have chi

Specless monks at 1

-Can't dual wield
-Hit softer with tiger palm
-Have a longer GCD
-No Chi

Also:
New mages hit harder than old mages.
Warlocks hit the same, old and new.
New priests hit harder than old priests.

Images for those four in the guide. All we need is a comparison between old and new druids and shamans.
Click to expand...

Wow I did something right for once by not doing anything :)
 
I can confirm same results for priest, shaman, pally.
Found two old level 1 druids but neither is showing a spec despite being maybe a decade old.
I have a theory about this but it's not much more than a guess so whatever.
On the other hand I have a gf'd lvl 5 worgen druid and rolled a new one to compare.
Same base stats of 25 Int 27 Stam at that level.
But gf'd lvl 5 has five times the mana pool and both Wrath and Moonfire appear stronger.
Which could mean absolutely nothing for a level 1, so my apologies if that's misleading.
Hopefully someone out there has a level 1 druid showing a spec and can post something more definitive on it.

Meanwhile I'm feeling bad for anyone who put in time on an old lvl 1 only to find they're now at a disadvantage.
But I'm just going on tooltips here, at a time when they're busted, so maybe it's not as bad as my priest seems to be ...

edit: I just realised my lvl 5 druid is probably completely irrelevant.
Hadn't played him in a long time, but surely he would have been 10 or 11 before the squish and would've unlocked a spec then regardless. D'oh.
And while a lvl 5 worgen druid with a big mana pool is now gf'd itself, it's not in the same way as the lvl 1s under discussion here.
 
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I never played ones but find this all pretty interesting
agreed that going simply on tooltips could be misleading atm
but I found an old orc rogue sitting in org at level one that looks like could be fun
and whatever tooltips may say there's no arguing with his +20 energy :)
 
Puempeekstoh said:
Has any of this been tested on mobs or is this all just tooltip speculation?
Click to expand...
Rakim said:
I never played ones but find this all pretty interesting
agreed that going simply on tooltips could be misleading atm
but I found an old orc rogue sitting in org at level one that looks like could be fun
and whatever tooltips may say there's no arguing with his +20 energy :)
Click to expand...
There's actually a modification spell that is put on anyone in a specific spec, like https://www.wowhead.com/spell=137037/assassination-rogue

There's links to each of these in the big guide. They have lined up for every single class's tooltip damage besides mage where frostbolt isn't mentioned. I did do a little bit of target dummy testing and it did line up, but I didn't screenshot it and only did it for a couple classes. I can whip one up real quick.
[doublepost=1615591738,1615589602][/doublepost]
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Tooltips accurately reflect a damage discrepancy.
 
Found a lvl 1 druid showing Balance spec at last.
[doublepost=1615647071,1615647038][/doublepost]
WoWScrnShot_031221_211704.jpg

[doublepost=1615647115][/doublepost]
WoWScrnShot_031221_212243.jpg

[doublepost=1615647301][/doublepost]Tooltip showing 10 nature damage Wrath for both.
In fact the only differences I can see are:
The Balance Druid title, the Balance tab being unlocked on the spellbook, and that 9% mastery.

Edit: As Blazai has pointed out, the gf'd Balance druid also casts Wrath with no mana cost, while for the new druid it costs 1 mana.
 
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Blazai said:
View attachment 18741

Found something pretty funny with the long GF'd Feral druids.

They get the following:
+11% crit
+16% mastery
Agility instead of Intellect
+3 more damage on Wrath (13 instead of 10)
Gfd feral page
Click to expand...
There was a twink that @Jonnes was telling me about that had a GM switch him from Feral to Balance... big mistake.
 
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