Concerned... Where are the Alliance twinks???

[sheckelberg]

What time do you usually queue werk? I usually queue around 10pm-12pm est and lately I run into nothing but 5+ person horde premades. The last couple nights has been pretty bad for alliance but maybe it's just the luck of the games I'm getting.

 

[werk]

What time do you usually queue werk? I usually queue around 10pm-12pm est and lately I run into nothing but 5+ person horde premades. The last couple nights has been pretty bad for alliance but maybe it's just the luck of the games I'm getting.

It varies. On days I have a lot of conference calls/webinars to do, I'll be on a good bit during the day ... but other than that most evenings off & on.

I dont generally pay much attention to whether or not I've drawn a game against a 4+ group queuing together. The only time I ever really notice is when there's a twinked warrior with a pocket healer. But, if I'm ever queuing with anyone else...that's about the time I'll be doing it. Last night I was queuing with 7 or 8 around that timeframe.

 

[Shadez]

I will see you guys in the gulch soon. I just need 4 healing greens to finish my holy set. My ret set is done.

Best in slot holy and ret set POG

ALLIANCE

 

[Scrubhuntin]

ally twink numbers have now reached 2 total! soon we shall be unstoppable! ;D

 

[werk]

I will see you guys in the gulch soon. I just need 4 healing greens to finish my holy set. My ret set is done.

Best in slot holy and ret set POG

ALLIANCE

I'll save a deathray for ya =D

 

[werk]

so in the event any of ya'll are interested in my nerdgasms...

Halfway through, so 50 games, breaks down thusly:

Average group comp per game:
Alliance:
Priest: 1.08 Rogue 1.722 Paladin: 1.305 Warrior: 1.55 Druid: 1.305 Mage: .944 Hunter: 1.638 Warlock 0.75
Horde:
Priest: 1.02 Rogue: 2.472 Shaman: 1.5 Warrior: 1.41 Druid: 0.75 Mage: 0.80 Hunter: 1.277 Warlock: 0.75

Winning %: Horde: 72%, Alliance 28%

Average Flags per BG: Horde 2.333 Alliance 0.91

Average Rep per BG: Horde 117.78 Alliance 45.972

 

[sheckelberg]

Any discord's to cross server queue with other alliance?

 

[werk]

So far, the only thing I'm really learning here is that players for both horde and alliance make similar choices when choosing classes. The most represented class on both sides is rogue, the least represented on both is Warlock. This at least somewhat reinforces my theory that on a macro level, the playerbases for both sides are similar except for numbers.

The only significant differences are really that Horde has .75 more Rogues per game, whereas Horde has .75 fewer Druids. My guess is that this is due largely to three factors:

1) I'm doing all the counting, and I'm a rogue.
2) WOTF is a really damn good racial for rogues.
3) Versions of elves are the most popular race: which can only be druids on Alliance. Horde is stuck with cow druids, a race that isnt all that popular to play.

So now the other part: Horde wins 70% of the games. As I've said from the beginning, I do not attribute this to "Alliance sucks, Horde is awesome". My base assumption is that they are both of similar median skill levels. So now that I'm pretty well convinced it isnt an issue of group composition, the other factors likely are.

1) Me being a superior player to the point of skewing the stats by a wide margin.
2) There is not a class composition disparity, but there is a level disparity between the groups.
3) There is a gear disparity between horde and alliance
4) I'm wrong: the playerbases are not similar. Alliance actually sucks.

I'm dismissing 1 and 4 out of hand, and going with a combination of 2 and 3. I'll try to figure out an easy way to track the average player levels per BG from here on in, but I havent found it yet. No clue how to account for gear imbalances, though I think that will probably kinda take care of itself with tracking levels.

 

[Warglave]

Horde doesnt have to be good, alliance is just awful. Always has been. Funny how your stats support my original post.

And you're still looking for other reasons than the obvious and most likely... the players.

 

[werk]

Horde doesnt have to be good, alliance is just awful. Always has been. Funny how your stats support my original post.

And you're still looking for other reasons than the obvious and most likely... the players.

The players are not the most obvious or likely. It's simply one of many possibilities, and I'm either proving or disproving one of them.

These numbers neither support nor disprove what you are saying. They only speak to two things: average group composition, and winning percentages. Those are all the answers they provide. /fin. If these numbers speak to anything at all, they simply show that both horde and alliance make similar class choices. I'm not saying this supports my argument, really, but it does not really support yours either. It marginally supports the idea that the two playerbases are similar in some ways, but I dont think in any relevant way.

I'm not looking to quantify "alliance sucks" simply because I cant. I *can* quantify other things, though, which is what I'm doing. My next question is whether or not the median character level is different, but without someone on alliance side keeping some stats on what they are seeing it's kind of a pain in the ass to do. I was literally just telling someone in game that I need to get on fiverr and find a pakistani to write an addon that does it...

 

[ReckoningOG]

The players are not the most obvious or likely. It's simply one of many possibilities, and I'm either proving or disproving one of them.

These numbers neither support nor disprove what you are saying. They only speak to two things: average group composition, and winning percentages. Those are all the answers they provide. /fin. If these numbers speak to anything at all, they simply show that both horde and alliance make similar class choices. I'm not saying this supports my argument, really, but it does not really support yours either. It marginally supports the idea that the two playerbases are similar in some ways, but I dont think in any relevant way.

I'm not looking to quantify "alliance sucks" simply because I cant. I *can* quantify other things, though, which is what I'm doing. My next question is whether or not the median character level is different, but without someone on alliance side keeping some stats on what they are seeing it's kind of a pain in the ass to do. I was literally just telling someone in game that I need to get on fiverr and find a pakistani to write an addon that does it...

Not in the way that warglave means it but he could be right, it could be the player base.

I remember back in TBC / Wrath I server/faction changed a bit to play with good players.

I learned a lot more by playing side by side a better player than me and learning from what they’re doing and questioning everything then I did by being destroyed by a good player.

And it seems like a lot of skilled players have rolled horde.

I’m not good at trying to get the point across so I’ll make one more example. In my 19 days in TBC I played a lot of games in my original battle group reckoning, it wasn’t until I discovered the forums and got invited to try out the bracket over in cyclone that I realised what I thought were good amazing skilled players in reckoning were average players in cyclone. After lvling to lvl 10 and experiencing this I transferred a 19 over there and improved.
[doublepost=1579763650,1579763221][/doublepost]Not to mention your results will be skewed simply because people are still getting ready to join the bracket.

Lvling and gearing a 39 hell a twink takes time. Not everyone has the ability like myself for an example to lvl a gear a 19 out in 2 days and 29 in 3.5days and a 39 in 6 days. There’s a guy who is lvling for 39 and is at lvl 25. I’ve lvled and geared 1.5 39s in the time he’s gone from 20-25.


Give it time and the factions will balance out imo. But at the moment I do believe horde have the better player base currently but I also believe that will improve. FYI alliance have the better player base in 19s, horde in 29s and I haven’t attempted 49s yet so I can’t say for certain.

 

[Warglave]

None of your extensive reaching for "difference" has shown ANY plausible reason for one faction being better (or worse).

That leaves the players choosing either faction (duh). Stop being a contrary dickbag. It's clearly the obvious determiner.
For someone trying SO hard to come off as educated you're really just looking like a contrary tryhard clawing for straws.

The simplest (and actual) reason is that the alliance faction attracts the wrong type for PvP. Tryhard doesn't change that.

edit- and that doenst mean anyone here falls into that just for being alliance. Kudos to them for accepting the challenge.

 

[werk]

None of your extensive reaching for "difference" has shown ANY plausible reason for one faction being better (or worse).

That leaves the players choosing either faction (duh). Stop being a contrary dickbag. It's clearly the obvious determiner.
For someone trying SO hard to come off as educated you're really just looking like a contrary tryhard clawing for straws.

The simplest (and actual) reason is that the alliance faction attracts the wrong type for PvP. Tryhard doesn't change that.

edit- and that doenst mean anyone here falls into that just for being alliance. Kudos to them for accepting the challenge.

I really dont get why you are so butt hurt over my posts. We arent even necessarily disagreeing, we are just making different assumptions. The only difference is I'm looking at some data, which is actually changing my initial assumptions. This is how conversations work. It's possible you might want to stop participating in this one if it's making you so upset.

As for education, here's mine. BS Poly Sci University of Tennessee 1995, JD 2001. Series 6, 7, 63, 66, 24, and CFP. My posts here do not make me appear educated, they do the opposite. They make me look like a nerd. Also: yeah, I'm probably old enough to be your father or grandfather. Dont remind me, and get off my lawn.

 

[Warglave]

I really dont get why you are so butt hurt over my posts.

I'm not at all, you're just spitting up pages and pages of useless words often not even touching the bracket itself just TRYING not to be "wrong". Clawing at any possibility to come up with ANY OTHER answer than the one I gave on page 1.

Read it again.

Arguing just for the sake of arguing because "youre a lawyer" or some stupid shit. The answer is simple. You're wrong.

As for education, here's mine. BS Poly Sci University of Tennessee 1995, JD 2001. Series 6, 7, 63, 66, 24, and CFP. My posts here do not make me appear educated, they do the opposite. They make me look like a nerd. Also: yeah, I'm probably old enough to be your father or grandfather. Dont remind me, and get off my lawn.

someone trying SO hard to come off as educated

So now the other part: Horde wins 70% of the games. As I've said from the beginning, I do not attribute this to "Alliance sucks, Horde is awesome". My base assumption is that they are both of similar median skill levels. So now that I'm pretty well convinced it isnt an issue of group composition, the other factors likely are.

1) Me being a superior player to the point of skewing the stats by a wide margin.
2) There is not a class composition disparity, but there is a level disparity between the groups.
3) There is a gear disparity between horde and alliance
4) I'm wrong: the playerbases are not similar. Alliance actually sucks.

I'm dismissing 1 and 4 out of hand, and going with a combination of 2 and 3. I'll try to figure out an easy way to track the average player levels per BG from here on in, but I havent found it yet. No clue how to account for gear imbalances, though I think that will probably kinda take care of itself with tracking levels.

​

 

[Painintheaxe]

Alliance definitely doesn't suck. Undergeared? Yes. Less twinks? Yes, occasional outstanding players? Yes. Occasional shit players? Yes. There are, as expected, tons of average players, but when they are competent enough/willing to listen to calls we can rally to beat some horde premades. I'd imagine it's the same for horde. Reality is, horde has a larger player base than alliance which ultimately leads to more twinks, which in turn leads to the "Alliance sucks" assumption, as more twinks USUALLY means more games being won. It's just the way it is, but I'm not complaining because it feels so damn good beating a horde premade with a bunch of levelers. When I queue up it is a rarity that I see 1-2 other REAL twinks, while horde usually tend to have at LEAST 3 per game, in my experience anyway. That being said, WTB Alliance Twinks!

 

[werk]

I'm not at all, you're just spitting up pages and pages of useless words often not even touching the bracket itself just TRYING not to be "wrong". Clawing at any possibility to come up with ANY OTHER answer than the one I gave on page 1.

Read it again.

Arguing just for the sake of arguing because "youre a lawyer" or some stupid shit. The answer is simple. You're wrong.

​

I'm not a lawyer.

For clarity, what is it exactly that you are saying I'm wrong about? The only really declarative judgement Ive made is that there are likely reasons other than "Alliance Sucks". Is your argument that this is the only reason?

 

[Warglave]

No, that you're dismissing the most obvious (and correct) one and clamoring for ANY other reason. Even.... you. LMAO.

Once more, counselor:

1) Me being a superior player to the point of skewing the stats by a wide margin.
2) There is not a class composition disparity, but there is a level disparity between the groups.
3) There is a gear disparity between horde and alliance
4) I'm wrong: the playerbases are not similar. Alliance actually sucks.

​

Four years of night lawschool finally paid off.

 

[werk]

No, that you're dismissing the most obvious (and correct) one and clamoring for ANY other reason. Even.... you. LMAO.

Once more, counselor:

​

A JD does not make you a lawyer. It just means I have a JD....which I've offered in a very self deprecating manner.

I'm dismissing skill level simply because I have no way to quantify it, as I've said multiple times, so Im focusing on the things I actually CAN quantify. If you arent interest in those, that's cool.

So getting back to the question I just asked: your opinion on the subject is simply: Alliance Sucks because of lack of skill alone. Yes? Ok, fine. Thank you for your substantial contribution. I get that this is your opinion, and all you really have to add. I'm not sure why you keep posting about it.

 

[Warglave]

A JD does not make you a lawyer.

Clearly. Nor give you the insight of one.

I've stated my opinion very clearly. The problem with the walls of text you spit out trying to come off as educated is that you lose sight of the conversation behind those very walls of pointless drivel, counselor. "15 years" and you still don't get it.

The simplest (and actual) reason is that the alliance faction attracts the wrong type for PvP.

 

[werk]

Clearly. Nor give you the insight of one.

I've stated my opinion very clearly. The problem with the walls of text you spit out trying to come off as educated is that you lose sight of the conversation behind those very walls of pointless drivel, counselor. "15 years" and you still don't get it.

/facepalm.

Ok, thanks.