Classes/specs to solo dungeons? Lvl 10,11 or 20 now in TWW

[Henjitsu]

During DF I leveled up a BM Hunter to 20 and was able to solo most the WoD pretty comfortably.

I know at each lvl range different classes and specs become more viable. Which classes and specs can solo most the dungeons comfortably to be able to gear up a toon? I’m F2P and don’t plan on farming the ooze unless absolutely necessary. Are there any classes and specs that particularly stand out. I’m usually a solo doing player doing primarily PvE and don’t mind investing a lot of time to get geared up I just don’t want the process to be extremely frustrating. So if you can answer at lvl 10, 11 and 20 which classes and specs would work? Are any considered OP’d?

 

[orcgazmatron]

Prot Pally at 20 is the solo champ. You don't even need to gear them, they can solo a whole dungeon in looms & greens.
Once geared their punishing dps is pretty shocking, but still nothing compared to an 11 Fury; which just shreds a dungeon.
If you want an alt to just cuisinart trash for a target toon, it might be the best choice.
THat said, Resto Shammy & H-Priest are both pretty amazing at solo'ing, & are capable of astonishing dps to go with the potent self heals.

 

[setsunahq]

am I taking crazy pills, post TWW none of the 20s are amazing in soloing dungeons, they are all squishy as f.

 

[Lethys]

I mean honestly scaling is so jacked up I doubt theres a class that cant solo these dungeons.
Just enchant your weapon with lifestealing and get your speed up to 49 and destroy shit.

I challenge you to solo all WoD dungeons with a lvl 20 sub Rogue without using cheesy trinkets like Ooze or Toy windmill.

 

[CroyeTchor]

While I can't speak much about 10/11 as I have absolutely no knowledge regarding those levels I can give you a pretty solid idea about the 20 PvE landscape. That said while I'll try to make it as objective as I can, there is gonna be some bias and I admitedly haven't play all classes as much as my "mains".
Overall all classes will feel and are weaker and squishier than they were in DF seeing as we basically lost a bunch of stats, especially Stamina and Armor and a lot of secondaries. That said they're still plenty strong enough, far superior to what they were in SL and we already could solo on quite a bunch back then.
I'll mention mobility for some classes as a weak point. This is very much mitigated by SL gems but you do need to get those in the first place or you'll notice.
I'll try to not ramble on but no promises.

S+
Those classes are both incredibly easy to learn, have amazing survivability, decent to great utility and amongst the best damage we have at ths level

Restoration Shaman

The best class in the game imo. Incredible healing, you basically only need to cast https://www.wowhead.com/spell=61295/riptide, the occasionnal https://www.wowhead.com/spell=5394/healing-stream-totem, keep https://www.wowhead.com/spell=974/earth-shield up and you get some heals from https://www.wowhead.com/spell=73920/healing-rain which you already use for damage anyways.
We do have a bit of utility/survivability, mail armor and a shield grants us solid armor, we have some utility totems (stun, slow, root) excellent "oh shit" damage reduction in https://www.wowhead.com/spell=108271/astral-shift, https://www.wowhead.com/spell=2645/ghost-wolf which is the best movement ability at level 20 (50% movement speed if talented with a 20% damage reduction that helps greatly for skips, can interact with stuff while in that form, instant cast, no CD, just can't use spell in that form or it'd be broken).
And finally our damage is bonkers. https://www.wowhead.com/spell=188196/lightning-bolt will very quickly deal over 1000 damage (personnally on a decently geared shaman with 14-15% versa and 236 Int they are closer to 1400 damage), they're spammable, okay cast time and are the best standalone damaging spell/ability at our level. https://www.wowhead.com/spell=51505/lava-burst is incredible burst/opener on a short CD, https://www.wowhead.com/spell=188389/flame-shock is a solid DoT that enables lava burst, https://www.wowhead.com/spell=378443/acid-rain is incredible AoE but also excellent single-target on longer fights (at least 10 seconds) and https://www.wowhead.com/spell=188443/chain-lightning is one of the best standalone AoE abilities at level 20.
We also have https://www.wowhead.com/spell=196840/frost-shock as an instant cast slow, very useful against fleeing mobs.

Gonna keep myself from rambling on but long story short, Resto is broken.

Guardian Druid

Incredible tankiness, great armor, decent healing, solid AoE damage and decent single-target, crazy utility with versatile spells and most notably excellent movement speed with https://www.wowhead.com/spell=768/cat-form which can stealth. I'm not gonna deep dive every spec as we'll be here for a long time but to make it short we have spammable AoE with some of it ignoring armor, solid proc/rage based single-target, further damage mitigation in https://www.wowhead.com/spell=192081/ironfur and extremely easy skips. While I'd say a class I put in S+ has ro real weakness, bear druid's damage isn't as stellar as other (still very good, amongst the best) and if you mismanage your heals you can struggle bkt nothing too dramatic and the ability to stealth makes up for it.

S
Basically S+ classes. All the pet classes (Hunter and Warlock) are in there and I did not put them higher because of their reliance on a pet. Warlocks suffer a bit less because voidwalkers have an easier time grabbing aggro but for a begineer it may be more troublesome classes to get a hang of. They're still incredible and have amongst the highest damage we have at level 20 while providing amazing utility and insane survivability as long as their pets are alive.

Survival Hunter

I'm a bit high on Survival Hunter (bit of a bias) but they do are insane. A bit weaker than in DF in theory but their new mastery really makes up for it and they can unleash truly frightening hits. They only lack solid AoE but https://www.wowhead.com/spell=259495/wildfire-bomb does a decent job. You may want the https://www.wowhead.com/spell=34477/misdirection talent as some bosses are immune to taunt and it helps in AoE situations.
Even if the pet dies you get https://www.wowhead.com/spell=186265/aspect-of-the-turtle to revive it safely, https://www.wowhead.com/spell=5384/feign-death to save a run back and helps with skips (perhaps the best non-stealth skipping tool and sometimes even better) and several forms of CC.
Honestly besides an only decent AoE, your only real weakness is healing. Healing your pet is easy but for yourself you can only count on maybe some leech, https://www.wowhead.com/spell=109304/exhilaration (surprisingly solid ability) and outside sources like food, bandages and potions. That said if you get the previously mentionned items you're good to go.

Marksmanship Hunter

Now all I've said about Survival is mostly true for MM as well. You have even worse AoE but very good single target and while I personnaly prefer Surv's melee playstyle I have to admit MM has the best mobility out of all ranged classes besides Beastmaster Hunter. This allows them to easily deal with most mechanics which is a nice plus and being far away is nice if your pet dies as you may not need to use your aspect of the turtle.
But yeah other than that it's Survival all over again.

Now for Warlock specs I must admit I haven't played this class nearly as much as the others (maybe my least played class besides Evokers) but I know how crazy their damage output is. I'm only putting them below Hunters as I really lack the knowledge to be sure to put Warlocks over them but my gut instinct would be to put Destruction as the best S, possibly S+ as the damage is bonkers and maybe Affli over MM, perhaps Surv as the little amount I played them made me feel like they were true face-melters. Demo felt weaker but still quite insane.
Maybe a more skilled player could confirm/infirm as objectively as possible.

Destruction Warlock

Want a https://www.wowhead.com/spell=116858/chaos-bolt ? I've got a https://www.wowhead.com/spell=116858/chaos-bolt !
As all classes before, solid damage, utility and healing. Build up soul shards and https://www.wowhead.com/spell=116858/chaos-bolt or https://www.wowhead.com/spell=5740/rain-of-fire accordingly. Solid filler spell, nice instant cast https://www.wowhead.com/spell=17962/conflagrate and hard-hitting DoT. While I'm fairly sure it's linked to my shaky skills/poor gear, it somewhat felt like a quite inconsistent toolkiy as you spend quite some time between https://www.wowhead.com/spell=755/health-funnel and https://www.wowhead.com/spell=234153/drain-life making soul shard generation not so reliable.
That said you are quite unkillable and your voidwalker can tank a lot of elites (not advised as it takes away too much damage to be worth it, find a sweet spot for you current gear/skill). You also have amazing utility in https://www.wowhead.com/spell=111400/burning-rush, your curses, https://www.wowhead.com/spell=5782/fear, https://www.wowhead.com/spell=6201/create-healthstone and https://www.wowhead.com/spell=20707/soulstone (can be used to assist in skips were your ring to fail you).
This is the best warlock spec for bosses/single target.

Affliction Warlock

The same utilty/healing toolkit as Destruction, the differerence is in the damage.
While I'd say Destro deals more damage overall, Affli has the benefit of DoTs.
This is incredible for dungeons as you can DoT up your targets (insane mastery helping quite a bit here when you are at over 200 int, 1 point of mastery outdamages 1 point of int for your DoTs if memory serves) and then heal yourself/your demon as they wither away. I said to not aggro too much on Destro for optimal damage but with Affli you can go nuts as you don't need to be constantly casting.
The side effect is that you are kind of a sitting duck against bosses as you will quickly resort to https://www.wowhead.com/spell=125212/shadowbolt spam which is less than ideal.
Other than that it's incredible.

Demonology Warlock

Now I must warn you that I barely know what I'm talking about. I must have played like 2-3 hours of Demo in my life so I've put it with the others as I didn't really know what to make of them. I remember their damage feeling quite decent and they have the same utility as other Warlock specs so they can't be that bad.

S-
These classes/specs are insanely solid, they only lack a bit of damage. They are extremely easy to learn, maybe even easier than S+ and S specs but they have a lower skill cap / damage output baseline. You are basically looking at S/S+ specs with a bit less damage/utility making them that much slower which can be an hindrance depending on what your goals are.

Protection Paladin

The most solid, reliable, easy to learn class out of them all. While I have a bias towards the spec I can say those things fairly objectively. Crazy good damage reduction, solid damage in single-target, excellent damage in AoE, strong heals and a lot of "oh shit" buttons. This is perhaps the second tankiest class at level 20 and it will take a lot to kill you and you can always bubble-hearth out of trouble (not so useful in PvE haha). The only reason they aren't S+ is because they lack the kind of consistent utility and mobility you can expect from the top classes and their damage can be a bit lackluster. This is to me the absolute best class a begineer can start its soloing journey on. Their toolkit also makes it so that no matter what, this is the class you can expect to be able to solo. To illustrate, SL Resto Shamans had such a bad scaling that at some point, Frost Shock spam with Lava Burst/Flame Shock was their best rotation, they had no AoE and needed to constantly Riptide/Unleash Life. Druids had no healing in Bear form, Warriors had no heal period, Monks lacked any way to really make use of Stagger, ... Paladins have such a strong baseline toolkit that it cannot be unviable unless they gut the class. Don't be fooled by this "low" placement, this is in some ways the best spec in the game.

Protection Warrior

Having recently gotten their damage output buffed greatly makes Warrior one of the best classes right now. Solid healing though you can benefit greatly from some https://www.wowhead.com/item=173125/revitalizing-jewel-doublet, incredible damage reduction, Only less tanky than Paladins thanks to their great healing and the absolute monster we'll talk about later. Solid single-target, excellent AoE, okayish utility but terrible movement tools. On another day the spec might just be on the discussion for S+ depending on how you feel about it but it is amongst the sturdier classes we have, only hels back by lackluster healing prowess that can however be easily mitigated via potions or https://www.wowhead.com/spell=82200/spinal-healing-injector. Excellent class.

Holy Priest

Very good survivability, especially for a clothie. Very good heals though we lack a solid, somewhat spammable instant cast like shamans but https://www.wowhead.com/spell=17/power-word-shield makes up for it big time.
very good damage, not as impressive as it once was but still excellent with solid burst, DoTs and solid spammable spells like https://www.wowhead.com/spell=585/smite.
You get the https://www.wowhead.com/spell=45243/focused-will passive which basically reduces damage taken by 30% and is the reason Holy Priest is not just viable but outstanding while helping skip packs. You can pull large packs and have no real struggle with your DotTs and solid AoE.
Your utility isn't that good, you can clear magic effects, reduce your aggro radius, helping skip some packs with https://www.wowhead.com/spell=327821/fade and https://www.wowhead.com/spell=1706/levitate is always useful.
Worst weakness ? Perhaps the class with the worst matchup against interrupts which are a common occurence in TBC dungeons.
As I said they aren't as broken as they were in DF but they're still extremely solid. I'd argue they're S+ but they're a bit lacking overall when compared to Shamans and Druids.

Brewmaster Monk

While https://www.wowhead.com/spell=115069/stagger can be a pretty intimidating mechanic at first, it mostly takes care of itself via talents and your Brews have a short enough cooldown that you can manage it easily. The spec has less than stellar AoE to say the least, solid single-target, excellent healing, the best out of all non-healer specs and not so far from them, incredible damage reduction and superb mobility. Aside from Protection Paladins (and in a way, Resto Shamans since you can roll your face on the keyboard with these anyways) I'd argue this spec is the easiest one to learn. Quite solid utility with CCs, slows and poison clearing effects complement their toolkit nicely. The scaling isn't that great for them but they have possibly the best toolkit out of all classes at level 20. A well-geared Monk can easily tank 10+ elites solo which is quite solid post TWW "nerf".

Discipline Priest

Perhaps my favourite playstyle at level 20 in some ways. You are unkillable. No class comes close to that level of tankiness. A decently geared Priest can easily clear instances without taking a single point of damage. Juicy https://www.wowhead.com/spell=17/power-word-shield, https://www.wowhead.com/spell=45243/focused-will and technically 70% leech from https://www.wowhead.com/spell=81749/atonement (if you ever were to take a hit to break your shield). If you want extra (unneeded) tankiness, use https://www.wowhead.com/spell=231682/sanctuary and have a blast.
With that said, you have decent at best utility outside of heals you barely even need, very little mobility and amongst the worst damage at level 20 (maybe a bit exxagerated, their damage isn't that bad with the right talents and a bit of gear. I really cannot understate how unkillable this class is though and while it may deserve to be treated as an A class for its damage, its ease of play makes me feel like it deserves to be a low S-.

A+
Perfectly viable classes for soloing, their main flaw is survivability though they may also lack the utility and damage of higher tiered specs. They are squishier and less reliable, some classes in here having far superior specs to solo anyways.

Vengeance Demon Hunter

On another day this one may have went to S-. Solid spec, solid damage, solid survivabilty, solid utility and excellent mobility. The heals are the only limiting factor here. It's not that hard to do but getting your heals to work require to "optimize" your rotation in some small sense. You don't want to waste your heals as they are very limited and their generation isn't that fast. And if you aren't hitting something, you aren't healing. When you get more gear it becomes much easier. You do have around the highest health pool at level 20 (around the same as Blood DH, maybe a bit higher) which helps greatly in survivability. I'd advise you to get potions and https://www.wowhead.com/spell=82200/spinal-healing-injector to smoothen the runs and you shouldn't have too much of an issue soloing.

Beast Mastery Hunter

RP-wise, I love this spec. Gameplay-wise I hate that it keeps getting gutted again and again and again. It's one of the less customizable classes with so many talent points being so mandatory and their damage outputs really isn't on par with the other Hunter specs. The double pet does allow for a significantly easier time staying alive but other than that you're better off using Survival or Marksmanship. That said the class is perfectly able to solo, if you enjoy it (as do I ^^) go for it. After all you still have the amazing toolkit of Hunter and your damage, while not great, is certainly not bad. Just know that the other specs are better. The only case I'd make is for a new Hunter discovering the class as they may have an easier time learning the class.

Blood Death Knight

This one is a little tougher on new players. Blood DK suffers from a cruel lack of healing and relies a lot on their big defensive cooldowns. If you aren't hitting something, you aren't healing. You do have a decent toolkit with very strong AoE (even uncapped AoE for huge packs of frail mobs), decent single-target and solid utility but are very secondaries-starved and need to manage your heals since you also have not so much damage reduction outside of cooldowns. Your mobility is also not so great but like most classes mitigated by SL gems. You really struggle to make big skips as well.
That said the class has an higher skill ceiling (as high as it gets at level 20 I suppose) and once you've gotten the hang of it and get some gear you have a class that can't really die if you know what the mobs do while dealing very solid damage. DKs are just very gear-dependent. A well-played DK could be considered as an S- class easily.

Holy Paladin

Technically inferior to Protection so no real use for it besides you liking it but if you take Prot away, it becomes a solid spec. Plate armor and a shield makes you incredibly tanky. You have strong instant heal options and somewhat hard-hitting move albeit all on a (fairly short) cooldown. Your DPS isn't ideal as you will have to spend some time healing though with some practice you can weave those heals in-between the cooldowns of your damage dealers but you don't have a crazy damage output to begin with anyways. This is a more reliable class than DKs but with a much lower skill ceiling and way less potential damage. You do however handle yourself well in both AoE and ST and have the general Paladin "oh shit" buttons. Solid class.

A-
Those classes are still fully capable of soloing. We can, however, notice a significant drop in overall reliability due to some much weaker points. I'd consider every class below mostly unviable without at least some gear (i.e. not questing gear and maybe even some socketed gear) and/or some knowledge about the class. These aren't advised to newer players but very much viable picks nontheless. They all have a better spec at soloing so keep in mind that their viability is technically zero if you only compare them to their other specs.

Enhancement Shaman

I may be a bit high on Shaman but hear me out on this one. https://www.wowhead.com/spell=187880/maelstrom-weapon allows for instant cast heals that more or less get you back to full, you have a crazy fun rotation (the best one at level 20 imo) and the excellent utility/mobility of Shamans whle being melee.
With https://www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/shaman/enhancement/DAGEEFEAEBAEVBAQBQAA you're golden.
Earth Shield and Lightning Shield together grant maximum survivability, you don't really need https://www.wowhead.com/spell=383303/improved-maelstrom-weapon as you're spending those on heals anyways and with Earth Shield it's already close to max health if not more (not even counting crits), you get some AoE from https://www.wowhead.com/spell=334033/molten-assault and to be honest for AoE you can easily drop https://www.wowhead.com/spell=33757/windfury-weapon for https://www.wowhead.com/spell=333974/fire-nova. Your single-target is already pretty good, you've got decent survivability with good heals and a strong defensive CD, solid overall damage, ...
Honestly I know I have a bias so I'm not putting it higher and to be fair the AoE is an issue when soloing though you can alleviate that issue with talent shifts (I do hate to lose windfury though). This spec is the closest to an A+ here, it's just too unreliable compared to the other A+.

Elemental Shaman

Hey, did I tell you I enjoy Shamans ? Now to be fair this one is quite a bit weaker then Enhance for soloing. https://www.wowhead.com/spell=8004/healing-surge and https://www.wowhead.com/spell=974/earth-shield are an instant 100% health but this time they require a cast time. For soloing melee have it easier than casters and this rings true foe Ele as well. Your spells are very solid with good to great ST/AoE and you've got this excellent utility/mobility. That said you do suffer from being ganged up by all packs and poorly timed nature spell lock from an interrupt often means death. You're still quite tanky as, unlike Enhancement, you pack a shield but your heals are a bit less reliable. Great spec though, a lot of fun to play as well.

Shadow Priest

Decent HoTs, https://www.wowhead.com/spell=45243/focused-will which, albeit weaker on Shadow is still incredible and https://www.wowhead.com/spell=17/power-word-shield all grant you much needed survivability as a clothie. You also have decent damage in both AoE and ST but nothing to write home about and the decent at best Priest utility though you can add https://www.wowhead.com/spell=79811/dispersion and/or https://www.wowhead.com/spell=15487/silence to the mix. You're much squishier though so don't be surprised to eat big hits.

Retribution Paladin

Weirdly enough, the plate user is, in some sense, the squishiest one here. That sad you're still a plate wearer, have the great tools of Paladins in general, hit fairly hard in both AoE/ST, have a smooth rotation (up there with Enhancement and Brewmaster) and solid heals, expecially with https://www.wowhead.com/spell=403698/lights-celerity. As all other A-, you're squishier, can't deal as much damage as you need that much more healing and are very much outclassed by Holy Paladin let alone Protection.
Since you have a tanking spec, you can loot https://www.wowhead.com/item=188415/essence-of-gossamer which helps Ret a lot for survivability.

Evokers
I've put Evokers aside as I've barely played them. From my limited experience I'm fairly certain they'd be around B to A-, possibly even A+ for Devastation or Preservation. They have solid heals, damage output, utility and survivablity with excellent armor and defensive cooldowns. I have no doubt when I say they are very much viable with only Augmentation being maybe B.

B
We're getting into the less than ideal territory. All the classes in this list are unreliable on their best days and don't have a sufficient damage output/utility to make up for it. You still can make them work but they will struggle. Not reccomended. They all have a superior spec though, so the class isn't out of question.

Frost/Unholy Death Knight

Grouping those up as they more or less have the same issues. Only/most reliable healing tool means a cruel loss of DPS at least for Frost, You aren't that tanky to make up for it though you do have a lot of HP, your damage output, while decent, isn't that reliable as you can suffer from a lot of downtime were your haste to not be that high and while you have strong defensive cooldowns, you are even more dependent on them than Blood while having less of those. https://www.wowhead.com/item=188415/essence-of-gossamer is a great tool for those two specs and probably the best triket for them but having to rely on a trinket for a class to be somewhat reliable feels bad. Having SL healing gems can alleviate the issue but those are vet-only. Still probably the best of the bunch here.

Arms Warrior

Your healing prowess is middling to bad, you can get some heals from https://www.wowhead.com/spell=29838/second-wind but that's unreliable at best. You do technicaly get https://www.wowhead.com/spell=190456/ignore-pain but the poor scaling, long cooldown and rage cost really neuters its effectiveness. I'd say it's still kinda worth it for soloing though having to bypass https://www.wowhead.com/spell=385571/improved-overpower really feels bad and I can't guarantee the DPS loss is worth it as it's not much help anyways. As per DKs, Arms benefits from SL healing gems and https://www.wowhead.com/item=188415/essence-of-gossamer. Having https://www.wowhead.com/spell=386208/defensive-stance helps but your damage start feeling a bit off.
I really miss this spec being truly viable because I find it extremely enjoyable with those giant https://www.wowhead.com/spell=12294/mortal-strike but alas.

Mistweaver Monk

This one is extremely squishy. Decent theorical damage, strong healing prowess but you take so much damage that both those traits are kinda negated. It's still technically viable but just like the previous specs you may need https://www.wowhead.com/item=188415/essence-of-gossamer which sucks. You do have Monks' nice utility/movement tools. That said the 6% damage reduction from https://www.wowhead.com/spell=388664/calming-presence and https://www.wowhead.com/spell=388812/vivacious-vivification?spellModifier=137024 are the only real reason they aren't lower.
It's in some sense quite amusing to see that those specs still somewhat need their tanking spec to get a glance of viability.

Restoration Druid

Was it still DF those would have been close to S+. The new scaling really killed them off. I pondered making them C but they have stealth and solid enough heals that they can take a boss down. Stealth is the only reason they are not lower so that should tell you how well they do. Solid damage but you're constantly healing anyways and some bosses don't give you a second to hit them.
Crazy what losing so much stats and https://www.wowhead.com/spell=24858/moonkin-form does to a Druid.

C
Scrapping the bottom of the barrel here. These classes canno be considered any kind of reliable. I'm putting them ahead of the truly useless classes since they technically can solo some instances. Don't expect anything other than numerous deaths trying to make these work.

Balance Druid

You do have https://www.wowhead.com/spell=24858/moonkin-form and some heals. The damage is bad though and you're not exactly tanky either. It's weirdly enough a sturdier but weaker Resto Druid. While you're on paper somewhat more reliable than MW Monk and Resto Druid the process is so slow that you're that much more prone to getting killed randomly be that because of crits/unlucky pulls/enrage timers/... and your healing toolkit, while somewhat sufficient for shorter fights, will quickly run out as you mana drains away.

Fury Warrior

From my limited 10/11 knowledge, this is more or less the king. For 20s however, weeeellll...
You have some great tools, there's no denying that https://www.wowhead.com/spell=386208/defensive-stance and https://www.wowhead.com/spell=29838/second-wind but by Thrall's green balls how squishy can a plate wearer can be ? If we at least had a rage spender (R.I.P. https://www.wowhead.com/spell=184367/rampage) it would be better off out of sheer damage but we don't even hit that hard. As per all classes with a tank spec we have https://www.wowhead.com/item=188415/essence-of-gossamer which is tremendous help but even that cannot make fury reliable. Were https://www.wowhead.com/spell=184367/rampage to come back it would be at least as viable as Arms (not a big jump but still better) but alas.

Windwalker Monk

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=388812/vivacious-vivification and good damage are the only notable mentions. You're gonna die as Windwalker, and do so quite often.

D
Scrapped the barrel too much, those were dug underneath. While

Arcane Mage

Can skip packs with https://www.wowhead.com/spell=66/invisibility and technically down some bosses by using all their defensives, consumables and decent damage. That said it's not DF anymore and this was already unreliable here. I'm not sure you get much out of it. You can maybe do something with like 17-18 SL healing gems to get 100% health every 10 seconds but without those I would not consider Arcane any viable and those gems are vet-only so sorry f2p but no mage for you. There is some Ogri'la healing items that also heal 100% HP but I don't even remember their CD and I'm not sure they still heal that much. https://www.wowhead.com/spell=82200/spinal-healing-injector with all those consumables may allow f2p to get a lucky kill but it's far from reliable nor easy to do.
Could admitedly use some more testing from me but I doubt I'm too far off.

Frost Mage

Same stuff, less damage (or at least not more damage). You do have a lot of slows that helps with trash but bosses are immune to those. Pretty fun to play though and can clear trash fairly reliably but struggles too much against bosses to be viable as bosses are the point of soloing.

Only wanted to mention what mages can do as we're not gonna get more from them.

For Feral Druid, Havoc DH and Fire Mage the issue is you have neither the tankiness nor the healing prowess to solo and while you may have a workable damage output and utility they aren't enough to alleviate the survivability problems.

Rogues

And finally Rogues.

As of now we have access to a few broken trinkets that make Rogue soloing somewhat viable and, dare I say, almost reliable. We do not have any reason however, to think that this is gonna be sticking around, at least for a long time. Maybe they will in which case I'll eat my words (after all Ooze is still somewhat kicking) but if they don't Rogue is mostly cooked.

I've put them below everything as even with full SL healing gems giving you 100% health per 10 seconds, you're still dying. I've managed a few bosses as Assassination this way, if I tried to bring potions and https://www.wowhead.com/spell=82200/spinal-healing-injector I might have gotten more reliable results but even then without the SL healing gems I wasn't gonna do anything and even with those any boss that has some damage will be able to do over 180 DPS to you. Also yes, that means no Rogue soloing for f2p.

That said for all you crazy vets, I'd advise Assassination as it has the most reliable damage output and DoTs that can allow you to run around to stall time while dealing damage. Outlaw and Sub aren't as flexible and with Rogue any advantage is a major one. To Subtelty's credit, its strong burst synergies decently with Ooze.

You do have crazy utility with https://www.wowhead.com/spell=1784/stealth and https://www.wowhead.com/spell=1856/vanish, strong defensives in https://www.wowhead.com/spell=31224/cloak-of-shadows and https://www.wowhead.com/spell=5277/evasion that can also help stall time for the SL gems.

But yeah, even with SL gems and consumable, any boss that can consistently deal 200 DPS is a no-go without broken trinkets.

So yeah that's pretty much the 20's PvE landscape as of 11.0.5

To make it more readable :
• S+ to S- is excellent, very little to no flaw and can solo extremely easily with varying degrees of speed but all reliably and are easy to learn.
• A+ to A- is very solid. You may struggle to learn the class and the gameplay may be a bit more challenging with overall less damage but they are plenty viable and you shouldn't struggle one bit as soon as you've gotten a grasp of the class
• B is unreliable. It can work but requires to play less than optimally damage-wise. It requires a bit more skill than the higher classes for less reward. Mostly played if you like the spec.
• C is bad. The classes here can theorically work with somewhat of a niche but you will end up dying most of the time. Only played if you lke the spec and even then the experience might just make you reconsider.
• D is "nope". There isn't always a way to make them work without the use of broken trinkets and even then they'd be unreliable at best, being dependant on procs. Not enough survivability to solo instances.

 

[Ammonite]

Are you a vet with access to the SL healing/movement speed gems?

Prot pally is probably the strongest clearer at 20, but Shield of Righteousness competes with your heal for Holy Power. They also move slow.

I personally prefer DH because their rotation includes a heal. They're also super fast, super mobile. Slow fall + double jump is insane for skips and general traversal. Want to skip to the last boss in Underbog? Easy. Skip to the last boss in Botanica? Go ahead. Jump the gap in LBRS? Do it.

If you're at all interested in exploration DH is my main recommendation. I can't tell you how many times I just log in to hop around old Thousand Needles. It's just fun.

 

[Lethys]

Was about to write an essay, but I'm just going to give a tl;dr instead. I agree with most of the stuff from croye.

I'd rank all death knight specs way lower (especially blood), the specs with self-healing spells from b/c higher, arms higher, all pet users lower (clunky af, not sure what you see in them. Aggro management is awful with multiple targets, health funnel takes 75~% of all boss fights on lock, having to re-enable taunt all the time), shadow higher than disc (disc is my fav spec, but the dmg is just terrible now). Holy priest / prot pally on S. BM is higher than surv/MM partially due to misdirect on 2nd pet which respawns for free with full hp after a few seconds.

I've soloed with all but evoker, feral, havoc.

Your fascination with blood dk is lost on me. I can do better with everything from S+ to C excluding fury and other dk specs, than I can with blood dk. It follows the same principles as vengeance and protection warrior in my perspective, but it just does so much worse.

Also rip rogues, utterly neutered.

Also, priest fade + balnazzar book + dominate mind is some of the best tech there is. Use mind soothe + fade well and you can skip packs like invis / stealth does.

 

[CroyeTchor]

Are you a vet with access to the SL healing/movement speed gems?

Prot pally is probably the strongest clearer at 20, but Shield of Righteousness competes with your heal for Holy Power. They also move slow.

I personally prefer DH because their rotation includes a heal. They're also super fast, super mobile. Slow fall + double jump is insane for skips and general traversal. Want to skip to the last boss in Underbog? Easy. Skip to the last boss in Botanica? Go ahead. Jump the gap in LBRS? Do it.

If you're at all interested in exploration DH is my main recommendation. I can't tell you how many times I just log in to hop around old Thousand Needles. It's just fun.

With how much Resto Shaman and Guardia Druid do, I can't agree on that one. I personnaly would rank it third though, I'd give the benefit of the doubt to Warlocks as I haven't played much but even then I don't see them as better than Pallies. The most solid spec of them all for sure but when you take Resto's insane damage and Ghost Wolf or Druid's stealth ablitiy, movement speed in cat form and overall solid damage while both being sturdy enough for survivability to not be an issue then you can't consider Pallies first. The damage and utility doesn't compare.
If it were only about sturdiness Discipline Priest would be #1.
For DH while I don't consider them as top dogs, they do are a blast to play while being very sturdy. The Sigil of Fire healing effect seems kinda broken right now and doesn't feel like 8% of your damage so the healing problem they can have is negated. Even without that a well played DH is an excellent class.

Was about to write an essay, but I'm just going to give a tl;dr instead. I agree with most of the stuff from croye.

I'd rank all death knight specs way lower (especially blood), the specs with self-healing spells from b/c higher, arms higher, all pet users lower (clunky af, not sure what you see in them. Aggro management is awful with multiple targets, health funnel takes 75~% of all boss fights on lock, having to re-enable taunt all the time), shadow higher than disc (disc is my fav spec, but the dmg is just terrible now). Holy priest / prot pally on S. BM is higher than surv/MM partially due to misdirect on 2nd pet which respawns for free with full hp after a few seconds.

I've soloed with all but evoker, feral, havoc.

Your fascination with blood dk is lost on me. I can do better with everything from S+ to C excluding fury and other dk specs, than I can with blood dk. It follows the same principles as vengeance and protection warrior in my perspective, but it just does so much worse.

Also rip rogues, utterly neutered.

Also, priest fade + balnazzar book + dominate mind is some of the best tech there is. Use mind soothe + fade well and you can skip packs like invis / stealth does.

About pet users, the damage is what makes them great. As soon as you grabbed a hold of the playstyle you can go berserk and rarely ever get in trouble. Multiple target management isn't that bad on Hunters thanks to misdirection and Affli can DoT up and heal demon. On Destro it is a pain but it's not that bad. That said it is a rather unique gameplay and it can't be to everyone's liking but I'd be ready to bet some folks would say the pet classes need to be higher. Also both pet classes just so happen to have outstanding utility.

For Disc Priest I basically made the argument that the sturdiness was worth a lot for it. Even on somewhat broken encounters with wanky scaling you can just tank anything. Shadow's damage, while solid, isn't enough to justify running a spec that can't handle itself that well. If you want damage go Holy, for sturdiness go Disc. I like Shadow but while it's solid it doesn't do anything well enough to be over the other specs. I do agree I have a bias for Disc and I could have put it down to A+ for the damage alone but god damn on some bosses you enjoy that tankiness. I can see your point though and while I don't think Disc is weaker than Shadow I may be a bit high on it.

I can't say BM is better than Surv and MM. Have you seen the damage ? Sure BM is more reliable but within a few dungeons you should be well-equipped (in both gear and skill) to melt the dungeons anyways and at that point, what's the point of more tankiness ? To me BM is the Disc Priest of Hunters except it isn't that much tankier than other Hunters that it justifies any niche.

Now for Blood DKs. I think I can safely say I know some stuff on the spec and it isn't as bad as you think. The gameplay can be frustrating and early on the damage may not seem that great but saying Windwalker is better than it ?
Maybe the playstyle doesn't fit you but I can objectively say that Blood DK is far better than any C, B and A-. The damage output is surprisingly good in both AoE and ST and you don't need anything fancy to heal besides doing your rotation and the occasinnal cooldown. Having SL healing gems and the spinal injector can obviously be nice but they aren't needed at all. To do my DK guide I soloed all the instance needed with a DK having basic ilvl 84 gear, no gems and no enchants, zero consumables, overall stats were something like 150 strength, 2.7 or 2.8K HP, 10-15% haste and crit, I think 8% versa and 25% mastery.
With such bad stats and no other form of help I was able to clean everything mostly quite easily (besides a few "gear check" bosses). DKs have an incredible toolkit for a mostly healless class. It pains me to see it viewed so poorly as it is a wonderful class and if I went only from my opinion and liking it could have been even higher (though it wouldn't have been nowhere near objective haha).

It is a somewhat similar gameplay to Vengeance DH and I'd be fairly okay to call DK a generally worse DH gameplay-wise but DKs are so much more customizable, have much better defensives overall and their AoE is stellar. While those points don't make it better than DH, they certainly give DK enough to differenciate itself.

 

[Lethys]

Did some stuff on a training dummy on a hunter with a bit over mediocre gear ( I don't play hunter all that much). 8 4 agi gems on outland items, rest is TW. I'll come back to you about your other points. It's late where I live.

 

[Lethys]

Did priest as well. 7 x 4 int gems. Most of other gear is TW, some is worse. All of this is single target btw. Shadow is good with psychic link at 5~ targets. If you face more than that, swap to holy. BM/MM hunter is subpar to Survival in AOE due to bomb. Sry about low quality images. Had to make smaller because of limits on site.

edit: skipped disc because it's pointless. expect maybe like 60-70% of holy if not less. Smite is nerfed on disc ironically enough.

 

[wily.virus]

Ret is pretty decent once you gear up. Timewalking Runeblade is such a quality of life improvement once you get one. Spellpower scaling with strength is pretty amazing with paladins. The runeblade only heals for 42 per 5s on my warrior, but 225 per 5s on my paladin. That's like wearing a set of SL gems for non-vet F2P. You can solo some bosses faster and safer compared to prot.

Now I just need to figure out if life leech or crusader makes a better weapon enchant for survivability.

p.s. - Ramstein's Lightning Bolts zaps everyone around for 800+ damage, so I carry it for my aoe rotation.

 

[Lethys]

Ret is pretty decent once you gear up. Timewalking Runeblade is such a quality of life improvement once you get one. Spellpower scaling with strength is pretty amazing with paladins. The runeblade only heals for 42 per 5s on my warrior, but 225 per 5s on my paladin. That's like wearing a set of SL gems for non-vet F2P. You can solo some bosses faster and safer compared to prot.

Now I just need to figure out if life leech or crusader makes a better weapon enchant for survivability.

p.s. - Ramstein's Lightning Bolts zaps everyone around for 800+ damage, so I carry it for my aoe rotation.

True. Runeblade on Ret might just be my favourite tech in the game. It's awesome. Wouldn't say it's safer than prot, but I sure am having more fun with it. Really miss exorcism though, and that sword sticking out of the ground ability doesn't click with me. Fun little thing is that crusader gives you strength, which means the healing from Runeblade actually gets stronger on ret when crusader procs which is very often. I prefer crusader over lifestealing I reckon.

As for Rammstein - It recently dropped for me in TW. I think it might've been changed, because it seems to me like the damage drops off the more creatures it hits. Let me know if I'm wrong on that one. I really want that trinket to work.

 

[CroyeTchor]

Did some stuff on a training dummy on a hunter with a bit over mediocre gear ( I don't play hunter all that much). 8 4 agi gems on outland items, rest is TW. I'll come back to you about your other points. It's late where I live.

Okay so first things first : gear matters a lot when talking about Hunters. Secondly you got your talents wrong.

I did tests on my hunter (which I mostly play Survival on) and having gear with a bunch of haste which MM does not benefit nearly as much as BM and not having that much mastery (which MM and Surv loves but I couldn't fit that luch in cuz of TBC gear) and BM was inferior to both MM and SV.

Survival gets access to a +13 Agility enchant that far outclasses even a +3 scope on MM/BM and most importantly https://www.wowhead.com/item=27986/crow-wing-reaper. Now I did have https://www.wowhead.com/item=39487/dragon-slayers-shortbow with a +3 scope which is about as good as you'll get for bows so the comparison was somewhat fair (does bring a lot of haste and no mastery, to the advantage of BM).

For talents you're pretty spot on for BM though I really don't see why you'd pick https://www.wowhead.com/spell=393933/war-orders over https://www.wowhead.com/spell=191384/aspect-of-the-beast.

For MM you need to swap https://www.wowhead.com/spell=321018/improved-steady-shot for https://www.wowhead.com/spell=468392/pin-cushion as we aren't starved for Focus and we get much more https://www.wowhead.com/spell=19434/aimed-shot which makes our damage both smoother and higher. Might seem small but trust me it's light and day.

For Surv what are you doing mate ? Now that's a sabotage if I ever saw one ^^. Here's what a Surv tree should look like : https://www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/hunter/survival/DAAADVEBAAA
We can't make use of Mangoose Bite reliably at all and having a Wildfire Bomb setup, while interesting, doesn't compare to the almost constant buff that is https://www.wowhead.com/spell=459964/flankers-advantage with https://www.wowhead.com/spell=260285/tip-of-the-spear and we don't have enough tools for the spell to be worth the investment at 20.

Now I don't think I know how to use the damage meters as when I stopped my rotation I always stayed in combat for a few seconds, dropping my DPS overall but the numbers I was able to get during the rotation reliably (over 5 min) were :
BM : 500-515 DPS, MM : 555-570 DPS, SV : 610-625 DPS

To be fair I did not expect BM to do as well as it did, being only 10-20% worse than the other specs but as I said my stats were much more in favor of BM so the numbers are a bit skewed in favor of them. I'd expect an higher difference if I had all specs with true BIS.
What skewed your numbers were the talents to be sure and maybe your lack of experience with the class though to be fair Hunters don't have that tough of a rotation. Keep in mind that gear can influence heavily the difference from a spec to another and a spec like Survival has access to tools BM and MM could only dream about.

And yeah as you said Surv is superior in AoE thanks to bomb.

Did priest as well. 7 x 4 int gems. Most of other gear is TW, some is worse. All of this is single target btw. Shadow is good with psychic link at 5~ targets. If you face more than that, swap to holy. BM/MM hunter is subpar to Survival in AOE due to bomb. Sry about low quality images. Had to make smaller because of limits on site.

edit: skipped disc because it's pointless. expect maybe like 60-70% of holy if not less. Smite is nerfed on disc ironically enough.

Now a target dummy isn't a boss. Shadow Priests, while reasonably tanky, are still clothies. Unlike Discipline you will need to spend time healing and using PW : S on cooldown.
While yes, your damage may be superior to Holy in theory, how does that wotk in practice ? Let's admit a well-geared Priest for the following.
Your single-target is way superior and you shouldn't have too much trouble against bosses, at least not that much more than Holy right ?

Any boss/pack/mob that deals over 150 DPS to you (very easy to do) will outdamage even a very powerful shield. Now not only do you need to waste one out of 4-5 GCD to protect, you may have to waste an extra one to heal. Holy not only takes less damage thanks to their better focused will but they also have such a powerful instant heal they can allow themselves to go near death, save a lot of GCDs and then pop their serenity.
Also as I said with SV, are you sabotaging Holy ^^ ?
In no world is https://www.wowhead.com/spell=34861/holy-word-sanctify any useful for soloing, let alone any better than picking https://www.wowhead.com/spell=372307/burning-vehemence.

Try to run the changes to Holy into a dungeon, do the same with Shadow and I'm 100% sure that Holy will outclass Shadow.
Against weaker mobs where you don't need as much healing sure it can work at least as well if not better, I mean you can just DoT up and needing a GCD or two isn't gonna be as impactful if they're spread out but when it comes to overall dungeons, Holy's damage is more reliable which makes up big time for lower baseline DPS.

As a side note, I don't know your stats but if you have any mastery it's wasted on Holy and can skew the damage calc a little bit.


And as another side note, this GCD saving makes Disc deal a lot more damage than you think in dungeons as a well geared Priest can throw 2K shields (4K with crits) that can handle themselves damn well. The damage still isn't stellar but much better than it seems on paper.

As for Rammstein - It recently dropped for me in TW. I think it might've been changed, because it seems to me like the damage drops off the more creatures it hits. Let me know if I'm wrong on that one. I really want that trinket to work.

Sadly yes, the more targets you have, the less it will deal to each of them. With 3-4 targets you deal 1000 damage but they're spread out making it 330 per target. This is true for both the TW one and the regular one.

 

[Lethys]

So I'm on lunch break so I'll make this brief.

I don't follow guides. I do trial and error on specs I like. I'll try the talents you're talking about, sure. The talents I picked has been the ones which worked the best for me / talents I enjoy playing the most.

As for gear: If you have the best gear there is, then there is no reason to solo anymore. It's a journey. If your spec is only good if everything is perfect, then your spec isn't particularly good. It's not how I play the game. I have a full time job, and my time is not infinite. I spend way more of my spare time doing programming than I do playing WoW. I also solo all specs as I said. I am not going to have bis on everything.

Holy isn't using burning vehemence because it's a single target test and there are dummies nearby. I actively took it off. It's not the spec I use for soloing. I suppose you could multiply the final holy fire dmg by 1.3, which bumps holy slightly up above 600 which is still subpar to shadow. I'll run an AOE test with holy vs shadow vs disc to whichever extent is possible with dummies. It's not going to be particularly close in sustained dmg I assure you. In TW queues, pick holy. Shadow multi target takes setup time with psychic link.

I'll run disc through as well if that's what you want...

Shadow priest downtime is approximately equal if not lower than hunters due to all the jank with hunter + fade/dominate mind/fear. Also, my shadow priest's dps is still much higher than the hunter's in single target and my priest's gear is arguably worse than the hunter's and certainly worse than your hunter's it would seem.

I'm likely going to make some recordings of some playthroughs. Seeing is believing.

 

[Boii]

During DF I leveled up a BM Hunter to 20 and was able to solo most the WoD pretty comfortably.

I know at each lvl range different classes and specs become more viable. Which classes and specs can solo most the dungeons comfortably to be able to gear up a toon? I’m F2P and don’t plan on farming the ooze unless absolutely necessary. Are there any classes and specs that particularly stand out. I’m usually a solo doing player doing primarily PvE and don’t mind investing a lot of time to get geared up I just don’t want the process to be extremely frustrating. So if you can answer at lvl 10, 11 and 20 which classes and specs would work? Are any considered OP’d

Think we got a little off topic here, but id say the fastest/easiest way to go, unless you have lifestealing enchant, is gonna be a druid. Resto/guardian, either one, are really good and its super easy to gear rn. If you have LS, then arguably the best dungeon spammer/soloer, would be fury/mistweaver at level 11, theres a couple guides but the scaling for the enchant is broken at low levels so if you dont have access to that then maybe go level 20. The higher level is easier in the sense that you have more survivability for mistakes. Once you have geared most classes, they can all solo dungeon fairly easily, just not as well as others

 

[CroyeTchor]

So I'm on lunch break so I'll make this brief.

I don't follow guides. I do trial and error on specs I like. I'll try the talents you're talking about, sure. The talents I picked has been the ones which worked the best for me / talents I enjoy playing the most.

As for gear: If you have the best gear there is, then there is no reason to solo anymore. It's a journey. If your spec is only good if everything is perfect, then your spec isn't particularly good. It's not how I play the game. I have a full time job, and my time is not infinite. I spend way more of my spare time doing programming than I do playing WoW. I also solo all specs as I said. I am not going to have bis on everything.

Holy isn't using burning vehemence because it's a single target test and there are dummies nearby. I actively took it off. It's not the spec I use for soloing. I suppose you could multiply the final holy fire dmg by 1.3, which bumps holy slightly up above 600 which is still subpar to shadow. I'll run an AOE test with holy vs shadow vs disc to whichever extent is possible with dummies. It's not going to be particularly close in sustained dmg I assure you. In TW queues, pick holy. Shadow multi target takes setup time with psychic link.

I'll run disc through as well if that's what you want...

Shadow priest downtime is approximately equal if not lower than hunters due to all the jank with hunter + fade/dominate mind/fear. Also, my shadow priest's dps is still much higher than the hunter's in single target and my priest's gear is arguably worse than the hunter's and certainly worse than your hunter's it would seem.

I'm likely going to make some recordings of some playthroughs. Seeing is believing.

I do agree with you that you don't need guides, especially at our level, trial and error is to me the funniest way to go.
That said I've done the trial and error too and I wouldn't be telling you what I told if I wasn't at least confident I'm not too far off.

Sure you can play with the talents you enjoy (I fall into that myself, I can't get rid of windfury despite it being suboptimal in AoE) but you can't make the claim that spec X id better than Y despite one being played more optimally than the other.

I disagree with the fact that there is no reason to solo is not BIS, firstly I strongly doubt anyone has technically absolute BIS gear but even then (as it is a tedious grind I wouldn't do), you can solo for fun, achieves, RP or transmogs.
I also wouldn't consider my hunter any close to BIS. Decent sure, maybe even good but not more.

I'm the same as you, I play most classes/specs and don't care about BIS, barely even trying on my mains. That said a lot of people here aren't like that and a simple crow wing reaper will make a big difference even if you still don't have the rest of your gear.

You also seem to focus on single target on dummies. Soloing rarely is about single target burst on an immobile target. Sure you can skip trash (not in all instances) but even some bosses require AoE. And most importantly : mobs are gonna hit you.
I don't care how tanky your Shadow Priest are, Holy will be better on that and that's an objective truth, their toolkit is so much more adapted to survivability.
Yes Shadow is a threat to target dummies but does that mean it'll do as much against an actual target ? No. It's like saying you're good at basketball when you're the only player on the field.
You also have to take into consideration the gameplay of Shadow isn't better for soloing per se. Holy has better burst that can be useful on some problematic mobs for instance.

I don't need you to try Disc. The damage is gonna be pitiful on a target dummy. My point was that the spec's damage is gonna be much smoother from testing to soloing as you need less GCDs to stay alive meaning that much more spells you can casts. It's still gonna be weaker yes, but not by as much as you'd think against a target dummy.

Same goes for Hunters. You can blast as much as you want unlike Shadow. I may be too high on Disc but mate you've got a damn bias for Shadow.
You surely know more about Shadow than Holy or Hunters and that must mean you get more out of Shadow simply because you know how to play it.

And sure in TW you can blast, there is a tank, but TW is not soloing.

Look, I've been polite and all but you don't sound like you've got that much experience. I'm gonna take your Blood DK point of view for instance : ask anyone remotely familiar with the spec and they'll tell you it's consistent and solid.

I'm not gonna change your opinion, you're not gonna make me change mine. I see your points, agree with some, disagree with others, perhaps you feel the same.

At the end of the day, all the classes we're arguing about are solid, viable picks that can get soloing done reliably and easily. The point of the thread is to give just that. People have the information they need. If they don't enjoy a class I've ranked S or A+ for instance, they may just see them as A- or even B at best. That doesn't mean they aren't just viable classes, but excellent ones.

 

[Lethys]

And I took that personally.

Here's my history of wow

Vanilla (2004) - Played shadow priest. Didn't get to start raiding. Small kid
BC - Priest / warrior. Didn't raid. Still kid
Wotlk - Raided as rogue
Cataclysm - Didn't raid. Did play.
MoP - Dipped in a bit, didn't like it and peaced out shortly after.
WoD - Skipped entirely
Legion - Raided as disc priest. Has been fav spec ever since.
BFA - f2p journey started here.
Shadowlands - f2p only
dragonlands - f2p only
WW - f2p only

I dip in, play a while, usually delete my account and come back and start over due to addiction. I hate this game to shreds.
So here's what's going to happen. I'm going to make these videos, and you're going to stop trying to be the singular arbiter of all truth. I don't believe you're correct in some of your ideas and that's FINE. This here:

"""
Look, I've been polite and all but you don't sound like you've got that much experience. I'm gonna take your Blood DK point of view for instance : ask anyone remotely familiar with the spec and they'll tell you it's consistent and solid.
"""

Alongside multiple other points you've made during this argument, really just points to you being an elitist, who rules by dogma and recoils with humiliation and spite at the slightest hint of disagreement. That's gross. Not going to be deterred by that though. You're just not a very nice person.

 

[CroyeTchor]

And I took that personally.

Here's my history of wow

Vanilla (2004) - Played shadow priest. Didn't get to start raiding. Small kid
BC - Priest / warrior. Didn't raid. Still kid
Wotlk - Raided as rogue
Cataclysm - Didn't raid. Did play.
MoP - Dipped in a bit, didn't like it and peaced out shortly after.
WoD - Skipped entirely
Legion - Raided as disc priest. Has been fav spec ever since.
BFA - f2p journey started here.
Shadowlands - f2p only
dragonlands - f2p only
WW - f2p only

I dip in, play a while, usually delete my account and come back and start over due to addiction. I hate this game to shreds.
So here's what's going to happen. I'm going to make these videos, and you're going to stop trying to be the singular arbiter of all truth. I don't believe you're correct in some of your ideas and that's FINE. This here:

"""
Look, I've been polite and all but you don't sound like you've got that much experience. I'm gonna take your Blood DK point of view for instance : ask anyone remotely familiar with the spec and they'll tell you it's consistent and solid.
"""

Alongside multiple other points you've made during this argument, really just points to you being an elitist, who rules by dogma and recoils with humiliation and spite at the slightest hint of disagreement. That's gross. Not going to be deterred by that though. You're just not a very nice person.

I wouldn't call a guy like me elitist. Besides making that statement what made you think so ? If you're proving me I've acted as such I apologize.

I'm just pissed off that you don't seem to consider most of the points I'm making which is a fair human reaction that you are yourself experiencing.

I haven't the faintest idea of what "dogma" even means and I'd appreaciate knowing what the seemingly insulting term you threw at me means.

Now what ? Didn't you ignore most of my previous post to focus on a single part of it ?

If you want to continue this discussion we should at least do it in private messages so as to not further pollute this thread we already did so much to.

I don't really care about that extensive resume of yours, quantity does not mean quality and the fact that you were so quick to answer on just that point really doesn't do much to prove otherwise.

I certainly defended my points -once again a fairly normal reaction- and I feel sorry that you felt like I was being a jerk as it was not my intent up to that single paragraph in my last post.

I get that you disagree with me on some points, my issue is that you plainly ignore my "target dummies aren't bosses" argument amongst others.

Now you calling me "not a very nice person" does pain me. I think I've tried to be an overall nice person on these forums and reading is a bit of a blow for me.

Alas we may not be made to be friends but I'd at least like for us to not stay on that.

I'll PM you, if you want to answer please do it as a PM for thus thread doesn't need more arguing.



And for the others, just know that all the classes we are arguing over are plenty viable and can solo effectively so go for them if you enjoy them.

 

[Boii]

honestly i enjoy blood dk, its more afk than when i play frost but dk regardless is a class you usually play while paying attention unlike, paladin for example, or even druid. It is on the same level out toughness to tank as havoc, simply because they are kinda squishy at 20 (they dont have a full kit, but blood dk has a close rotation). Regardless rogue is bis soloer nothing is better

 

[Lethys]

honestly i enjoy blood dk, its more afk than when i play frost but dk regardless is a class you usually play while paying attention unlike, paladin for example, or even druid. It is on the same level out toughness to tank as havoc, simply because they are kinda squishy at 20 (they dont have a full kit, but blood dk has a close rotation). Regardless rogue is bis soloer nothing is better

You get ultimate style points for rogue solo without trinkets. Still trying to figure it out.

"""
haven't the faintest idea of what "dogma" even means and I'd appreaciate knowing what the seemingly insulting term you threw at me means.
"""

Dogma:

1. A principle or statement of ideas, or a group of such principles or statements, especially when considered to be authoritative or accepted uncritically.

It means that I'm accusing you of shooting down everything I say due to you thinking your list is the absolute truth, which is counterproductive. You're on a high horse, and I don't think you have any good reason to be on it. Be open to criticism.

"""
I don't care how tanky your Shadow Priest are, Holy will be better on that and that's an objective truth, their toolkit is so much more adapted to survivability.
"""
I never argued that shadow is better than holy. I said I think shadow would be higher on the list than disc because of how low disc's damage is. You can read that if you scroll up to my initial comment. And given that you don't care how tanky my shadow is, presumably you don't care about how tanky my disc is either, so presumably you agree with me then(?). I mentioned shadow's damage compared to hunter because you said hunter's dps is amazing, and shadow is meh. I showed you that with equivalent gear on a dummy in single target, shadow's dps is higher. I'd argue that shadow's aoe dmg is higher than a hunter's on average by a fair margin (at 5~ targets) - arguably with the exception of survival. Then you said that doesn't matter in practice due to how you solo instances, to which I answered that I'd argue that shadow has less downtime than hunter, to which you ignored and said you don't care how tanky shadow is.

I think blood's sustain is quite low, and I think I'd personally put it way lower.

Do you see how simple this is? I do not agree with you, and that's fine. There's nothing else to it. But you attack me as a person instead of the points I make, which just means you've lost the argument. Cheap and gross.