Class Burst Damage Defined?
- Thread starter Grabco
- Start date
Conrose
OG
Nevarial said:
Lol, it's a fairly old pic (Note the lack of Cheetah Aspect) so I still had some click skills... though I believe at that time I had keybound those skills above the main toolbar and had them up on there so I could keep track of cooldowns and quantities.
The stuff on the right side toolbars though were still clicked back then >.<
I know when it these pics were taken because it was right after I power leveled my Skinning (Note the Skinning Ability Key bound to the 8 key >.<)
But the main point of the pics were that you can cram a ton of damage into 3-4 second bursts which can overpower or surprise a player and/or their allies.
So you mean the warlock can actually one shot you with dots in a 3 second span ?
sorry but i dont believe that.
sorry but i dont believe that.
notoriousthf
Born US, Raised Mexican
ArthurianKnight said:
I don't know. It actually sounds possible when you think about it. I know deep affliction dots are quite powerful because I out-dpsed an pally and BM hunter, both 3 lvls higher than me, against Herod from SM.
EDIT: I don't even have Life Tap glyph yet, either.
notoriousthf
Born US, Raised Mexican
Conrose said:
That's true, but if you use the same dots (and only once) on a player, DL for trance proc, and player has no way of healing, then it's good as dead. That's how good 39 locks are.
EDIT: Meh, Riv beat me to it.
notoriousthf
Born US, Raised Mexican
Rayu said:
Never heard of that one. We always referred 'moment burst' as spiking.
Rayu, and what have me you think that its not what i was thinking about ?
think about it, DOTS aren't burst damage, heres why...
definition.
Burst = sudden impact.
Dot = Damage over time
the definition of both words are actually pretty much descriptive as to why dots cannot be burst damage. there is usually a 3 second delay before the dot actually kicks in for the first time, and thus isn't sudden. nor surprising as the guy who is looking at his screen will have time to react to it. even worst, it can be dispelled in that time span without it triggering ever. while a fireball or flame shock original burst cannot be prevented at all as they are sudden damages that just happens.
let me add this definition to help understand how i see burst and one shot moves.
Nuke = A spell that just does massive damage and threat. ex: Fireball
Nuking is the most basic form of damage from casters. burst damage to me is the basic form of damage melee uses. the only difference is in when does that damage starts being counted as burst damage.
rogues and warriors, even paladins, starts at the very moment their first damage was dealt which is pretty much instantly as they pushed the buttons. while mages and casters mostly have delays which can only be seen by their cast time. that delay gets them quite further away from the sudden burst because they need time to cast. and thus the effect of surprised necessary to make a successfull burst go down quite fast for them. the why its hard making surprise attacks from casters.
to me its quite clear. your Dots, even though i agree that warlocks have been the best classes in making people die suddently out of nowhere like 30 minutes after the original fight. it is simply impossible for them to one shot a guy with dots only. they can one shot a guy with their nuke. but not with their dots. its also why its impossible for them to have dots being bursty. unless you count the burst the moment they first hit and start calculating at that moment instead. but the opponent will actually be aware of your presence to begin with.
thats also why we are saying that burst damage is the time before your opponent can react to you.
as for the "one shot" remark...
you mean to tell me that all 3 dots, when they tick all together can actually get rid of your 5k life. i find it hard to believe all by itself considering i dont know any warlocks at 39 fully geared able to do a shadowbolt for that much. and its their most powerfull nuke.
think about it, DOTS aren't burst damage, heres why...
definition.
Burst = sudden impact.
Dot = Damage over time
the definition of both words are actually pretty much descriptive as to why dots cannot be burst damage. there is usually a 3 second delay before the dot actually kicks in for the first time, and thus isn't sudden. nor surprising as the guy who is looking at his screen will have time to react to it. even worst, it can be dispelled in that time span without it triggering ever. while a fireball or flame shock original burst cannot be prevented at all as they are sudden damages that just happens.
let me add this definition to help understand how i see burst and one shot moves.
Nuke = A spell that just does massive damage and threat. ex: Fireball
Nuking is the most basic form of damage from casters. burst damage to me is the basic form of damage melee uses. the only difference is in when does that damage starts being counted as burst damage.
rogues and warriors, even paladins, starts at the very moment their first damage was dealt which is pretty much instantly as they pushed the buttons. while mages and casters mostly have delays which can only be seen by their cast time. that delay gets them quite further away from the sudden burst because they need time to cast. and thus the effect of surprised necessary to make a successfull burst go down quite fast for them. the why its hard making surprise attacks from casters.
to me its quite clear. your Dots, even though i agree that warlocks have been the best classes in making people die suddently out of nowhere like 30 minutes after the original fight. it is simply impossible for them to one shot a guy with dots only. they can one shot a guy with their nuke. but not with their dots. its also why its impossible for them to have dots being bursty. unless you count the burst the moment they first hit and start calculating at that moment instead. but the opponent will actually be aware of your presence to begin with.
thats also why we are saying that burst damage is the time before your opponent can react to you.
as for the "one shot" remark...
you mean to tell me that all 3 dots, when they tick all together can actually get rid of your 5k life. i find it hard to believe all by itself considering i dont know any warlocks at 39 fully geared able to do a shadowbolt for that much. and its their most powerfull nuke.
Grabco
OG
OK now that we have a pretty good idea of what defines burst, I would like to move this thread in a new direction. I can't comment on every class but I'd like to get a quick list going of class and their burst damage moves and amount of damage they can dish out without special procs (we'll put those in at a later) in the so called "burst window" Also is it safe to say the burst window is expanded by the use of stuns or fears?
Please help me define Class specific burst combos using our definition of burst. I started but the only one I can really figure out is the pally and mage cuz that's what I play most. I also am also trying to put some autoshots into the hunter burst sequence but I'm not sure how long this sequence should be.
Rogues: Ambush-sinister strike-x2 auto attack?
Paladin: Judgment of light-seal damage (passive)-Auto attack-seal damage-stun-autoattack
Hunter: serpent sting (1tick)-multishot-arcane shot? (no autoshots if moving)
Warrior: Heroic strikeX2 auto attack,thunderclap?
Lock:
Mage: sheep-fireball-fireblast
Priest: Smite-psychic scream-Smite
Druid:
Shaman:
Please help me define Class specific burst combos using our definition of burst. I started but the only one I can really figure out is the pally and mage cuz that's what I play most. I also am also trying to put some autoshots into the hunter burst sequence but I'm not sure how long this sequence should be.
Rogues: Ambush-sinister strike-x2 auto attack?
Paladin: Judgment of light-seal damage (passive)-Auto attack-seal damage-stun-autoattack
Hunter: serpent sting (1tick)-multishot-arcane shot? (no autoshots if moving)
Warrior: Heroic strikeX2 auto attack,thunderclap?
Lock:
Mage: sheep-fireball-fireblast
Priest: Smite-psychic scream-Smite
Druid:
Shaman:
Rivfader
OG
ArthurianKnight said:
5k life? yeah cause thats common in the 39 bracket, seriously play it and actually know what you're talking about before you post useless walls of text. Stacked lock dots + DL/DS will kill most people before they have a chance to react meaningfully, I would call that burst since most classes can't respond to it. Lemme throw out a scenario, corruption>CoA>SL>fear>DL you die.
Rayu
OG
Grabco said:
Rogues: Ambush -> Backstab -> Eviscerate (meanwhile white hits) for daggers, Sinister Strike -> Garotte (tick) optional -> Eviscerate (meanwhile white hits) for swords. Take into consideration that you will want to start every burst with as many combo points possible and 100% energy.
Paladin: Hammer of Justice -> Judgement -> Auto Attack while the stun remains on the target. Reason for the stun being at the beginning is that it disables your target from popping LB when in the GCD after your Judgement.
Hunter: While standing still: Serpent Sting/Immolation Trap (ticks) optional -> Arcane Shot -> Multi-shot (meanwhile white hits).
Warrior: I don't know much about warriors but I think Heroic Strike and Revenge should be in there, with an optional Rend tick.
Warlock: Searing Pain -> Glyph of Corruption -> Corruption/Curse of Agony/Immolate DoT (ticks) optional (meanwhile Voidwalker white hits/Imp Firebolts).
Mage: Fireball -> Fireblast and Frostbolt -> Fireblast for frost mages specced into the 100% crit damage talent.
Priest: Mind Blast in combination with a Shadow Word: Pain tick is the best burst you can get on a priest. Low burst potential.
Druid: Wrath -> Moonfire -> Entangling Roots (tick) optional.
Shaman: No idea, I'm guessing Lightning Bolt with a Flame Shock tick and a totem hit.