Zatox
OG
I'm not saying we have to exclude them. For some reason I was focusing on mirror matches. Bustier comps can definately beat these hybrid comps.
I'm not saying we have to exclude them. For some reason I was focusing on mirror matches. Bustier comps can definately beat these hybrid comps.
anatomyx
Legend
I don't really think either choice is very appealing tbh, but I have a couple possible solutions at the bottom of this post.
In 1v1 matches, a HUGE amount of rng is involved, and with the amount of buttons at 19 there are very few ways to actually outplay anyone in a 1v1 situation. 1v1s are simply not balanced or fun at 19.
In 3v3 "underpowered" matches, there are a few problems. The first is the classes being proposed, which at the moment are basically all weak casters. While games that end very quickly aren't too appealing, games that end only in very high dampening are even worse. Not having any melee allowed is a VERY big issue. The room for teams to make mistakes will be absolutely massive, and it will transform the tournament into which team can LoS more casts and eventually win in dampening.
So my suggestion is to find a way that we can actually balance melee instead of banning them outright. People can experiment in arenas and find what works, as we still have time before the TC.
One solution may be to ban certain/all enchants for certain classes/specs to bring them down to a level that balances them out with weaker ones.
Another solution may be to combine the above rule with also banning classes that are obviously a problem. Last year, almost every single team ran BM/Mage/Disc, so eliminating this comp is a good start. My opinion would be to ban BM monks, as I think mages are fine, they just provide the CC while the BM monk kills somebody. Even without enchants, BM monks do a ton of damage.
If the plan is still to do a 3v3 tournament, please don't be too restrictive and start banning a bunch of classes, ban things that are just not possible to fix. A good example would be HB's suggestion of druid cat form abilities. You cannot balance them, they always do a crazy amount of damage, so banning those abilities would be a good move.
If the rules for banning classes are too restrictive, the result could easily be a 3v3 tournament that will be far worse than last year.
In 1v1 matches, a HUGE amount of rng is involved, and with the amount of buttons at 19 there are very few ways to actually outplay anyone in a 1v1 situation. 1v1s are simply not balanced or fun at 19.
In 3v3 "underpowered" matches, there are a few problems. The first is the classes being proposed, which at the moment are basically all weak casters. While games that end very quickly aren't too appealing, games that end only in very high dampening are even worse. Not having any melee allowed is a VERY big issue. The room for teams to make mistakes will be absolutely massive, and it will transform the tournament into which team can LoS more casts and eventually win in dampening.
So my suggestion is to find a way that we can actually balance melee instead of banning them outright. People can experiment in arenas and find what works, as we still have time before the TC.
One solution may be to ban certain/all enchants for certain classes/specs to bring them down to a level that balances them out with weaker ones.
Another solution may be to combine the above rule with also banning classes that are obviously a problem. Last year, almost every single team ran BM/Mage/Disc, so eliminating this comp is a good start. My opinion would be to ban BM monks, as I think mages are fine, they just provide the CC while the BM monk kills somebody. Even without enchants, BM monks do a ton of damage.
If the plan is still to do a 3v3 tournament, please don't be too restrictive and start banning a bunch of classes, ban things that are just not possible to fix. A good example would be HB's suggestion of druid cat form abilities. You cannot balance them, they always do a crazy amount of damage, so banning those abilities would be a good move.
If the rules for banning classes are too restrictive, the result could easily be a 3v3 tournament that will be far worse than last year.
Bop
Remember the Treeline
This topic has been discussed to great length in F2P back in MoP.
The best way to run any sort of underpowered or intentionally balanced arenas is to use a point system.
You give a point value to each specialization (banning whichever you choose, of course).
Then you give each team a maximum number of points.
For example, you might make a limit per team of 10 points. Holy Priest might be 2, Enhancement might be 5, and then sub rogue might be 3.
That's just a hypothetical to demonstrate the practicality of this method. This also serves to limit hybrid spam, since hybrids are going to be more expensive in terms of total points.
The best way to run any sort of underpowered or intentionally balanced arenas is to use a point system.
You give a point value to each specialization (banning whichever you choose, of course).
Then you give each team a maximum number of points.
For example, you might make a limit per team of 10 points. Holy Priest might be 2, Enhancement might be 5, and then sub rogue might be 3.
That's just a hypothetical to demonstrate the practicality of this method. This also serves to limit hybrid spam, since hybrids are going to be more expensive in terms of total points.
Fancy
Veteran
Most fun I have experienced is Demolock elesham/spreist rdruid. Where the Rdruid cannot use any cat form abilities other than thrash and stealth, the main part about the catform is for the movement speed. These games go for about 5 mins if both teams are even and its very fun for everyone who plays them.
Bop
Remember the Treeline
If you take away those variables, the variables that remain are (arguably) less fun. Or at least, less interactive.
Slight positionings on map; critical strikes; small micro actions (DoT efficiency, mana grind).
I mean I personally find those things to be fun - but they're very static, and not very interesting to watch (for most people).
Bop
Remember the Treeline
It seems you have responded to me before I posted.
I believe you're right.
A problem with this specific situation is that it's also sort of boring for (some) of the players who would be participating.
Non-mirror is less "skillful", but more dynamic.
Delayed
Legend
Why do people hate seeing games hit dampening? It goes to show which team is better prepared/skilled in tight situations with even more so limited resources of keeping the team going.
I have done a few underpowered 3's here and there and games that last a while make it much more fun and balanced.
I have done a few underpowered 3's here and there and games that last a while make it much more fun and balanced.
Fancy
Veteran
I agree with the same comps, but gearing is up to the play style and is apart of the fun.
Fancy
Veteran
Fears and shears = mechanics
Snack
Salty
This sounds like an amazing idea! Obviously pretty comprehensive, and we would need people with experience in 19's to make the system, but it's deffinately doable.
You would be taking away a big aspect of 19's which is gearing for your playstyle and choosing a comp that fits you the best
Boring to watch often means it's boring to play, and furthermore this is a community event, it's meant to be entertaining for the community, and not just for tje people playing
As long as you have the damage to kill targets in these windows, which is why I would prefer a Tier 2 tournament
partygirl
Legend
Ye hard to press 1 key then go back to spamming heals and lightingbolts, same with lock keybind fear and dot then AFK
Cheesetoast
Legend
Get livingforce to run the tourney and make all the final decisions, the hype will be there, the players will be there, the competition will be real. I remember him saying his next tourney he'd donate $500AU - as a community member I'm holding you to that @Livingforce
Snack
Salty
Pretty sure he was talking about a 29 tourny
Delayed
Legend
He was but wouldn't hurt to ask seems how he ran it pretty damn well last time