Botters allowed to partipate in the 2015 Twink Cup?

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respectable tink
 
kayooh said:
holy cow the first actual proven fact in this thread! bacon1 for mvp
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Ko is bad. (there's another fact for you) <3
 
Restopathic said:
I found out I have no legs, so now I understand why they call me Lego"less"
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Then you found a lasso and became a legless legolas' lasso!

But OT, the bot was taken down and the accounts were banned. If the players want to make other 19s and participate its only fair. I mean we wouldnt even be able to tell who's who....
 
There is so much naivete in this thread, so let's clear some things up:

Zeiren said:
how do you know that people are using bot returns?

you and several individuals in this and the other thread keep claiming this, burden of proof is on you.

all i keep seeing is speculation.
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This isn't a common law court, nor is the 19 twink community the government. There is no substantive burden of proof. The evidence presented showed that Pizza was posting on the HB forums, that he 1) paid for the flag pickup bot and 2) was asking questions to its maker to improve upon its performance, and 3) was versed in druid combat routines.

A reasonable person can come to the rational conclusion that Pizza purchased the bot to gain an illegal competitive advantage over other 19s. That is the only premise proffered.

You know very well it would be impossible to prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt. But there is no burden of proof here, nor did I ever intend to create such an investigation. This is for the community to decide for themselves. The defensive nature of SR's posts shows that they take quite an offense to the accusations. That is to be expected regardless of truth or falsity. But the fact that Pizza was metaphorically caught with his pants down when a link showed him asking questions about the auto flag-pick up bot actually creates a presumption against him--that he DID use the bot. And he has not made any attempt to deny such involvement, nor would he likely be able to absent losing credibility.

And there are other bots out there besides Honorbuddy. A flag returning bot is not that complicated and there have been independent projects done to create stand-alone flag-pick up bots. Quick searches on Google or Ownedcore, etc, will show you to those bots. I will say that they are there, but I won't do your job for you in finding them.

You, Darkchewie, Pizza, and others in SR can try to intimidate people into thinking this investigation is pointless, stupid, etc. But this wouldn't even be a discussion if someone hadn't been silly enough to post on the HonorBuddy forums, asking for help with an Auto Flag-returning bot under a name that he is well-known for. You have only yourselves to blame in getting this sloppy with trying to find competitive advantages. I would have thought that by this time, such individuals would be better at hiding their trails. Which is what leads me to speculate the problem is more rampant than the evidence can show (not everyone is stupid enough to post on the HB forums for such products, thus basically indicting themselves by their own actions).

Conq said:
Besides the fact that Pizza would not taint 19s like that (He is far too passionate about them), he is one of the most visible twinks, and if he was botting in WSG on a 19 it would be quiet noticeable.
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Not sure if serious. But if so, then many of the new age twinks, such as yourself, truly are delusional. No offense intended, but it's really the only word I can think of to describe your train of thought. If not, then nice troll.

And as for "being noticeable" it's fairly obvious that the twink community has very little knowledge into how bots operate. These are not automated bots--they are still controlled (movement-wise) by the player. But the Bot works as an aid to, say, make faster returns, to catch rogues out of stealth, to stop-cast before an incoming interrupt, etc. So, no, it would not be "quiet noticeable" at all because the average 19 is not well-versed in how bots work. This part just reeks of ignorance on how the bots of today function. Even a person who is seasoned in botting would have trouble actually spotting botters who are running complex routines yet are still at the keyboard controlling the movement, etc. To think that someone such as yourself, who has no experience in this area, would be able to spot such discrepancies is laughable.

Someone else mentions the fact that Pizza streams as evidence of not botting. Again, this reeks of ignorance of how bots function. First, streams are usually fixed to only show the WoW screen + maybe a camera on the actual person IRL. Second, Honorbuddy has no watermark or other mechanism in game. It is injected directly into the game itself. There is no bot interface, etc. There would be no way to tell whatsoever from watching a stream whether one is botting or not botting. And again, the player controls the basic functions regardless, such as movement, etc.

Restopathic said:
All i'm saying is that Lukenukemx outscrolls everyone in this bracket, and he doesn't use a return bot. He scrolls it so fast I don't even see it hit the ground. That is the benefit of good ms and a scroll wheel.
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That's it. I think it's time something is said about this whole "scrolling" nonsense as well. I keep seeing it said over and over now and I don't think people know what scrolling has actually become now--at least to those who are actually the best at doing it.

I honestly thought that most twinks just used the term scrolling because it's what they are familiar with as a term. It appears, however, that this is not the case for many. Don't delude yourself into thinking that that's what actual top 19s use to return flags. If this is so, then you truly are behind on the times and you stand no chance at competing in the TC simply because you have been technologically outmaneuvered by other players in the bracket.

The fact that people still attribute "scrolling" as the best method for returning flags is astonishing to say the least. The fact that there is still a Sticky to show people how to bind the "interact to mouseover function" in-game so that you can scroll shows how far behind many twinks are in being able to compete at an even skill level.

How many years has it been now that the truly best flag returners don't actually scroll? Instead, they bind the right click function to a Razer Keyboard/Mouse via the Razer Synapse function. You can then have it "right click" 100s of times per second--thus making it FAR more advanced than "scrolling".

I can make a video and upload it to YouTube if you need help in learning how to do this. I could also do a side-by-side comparison to show how much the macro keybind function with a Razer/Logitech keyboard/mouse is far more effective than simple scrolling.

I'm pulling these numbers out of my ass since I haven't the time to go online and test it on a site, but traditional scrolling, if used in the most efficient manner possible, even with one of those nice free-spinning mice, could get maybe 20 clicks/second. A Razer/Logitech keybind macro can register 200+ clicks/second to the point that you may actually have to lower it somewhat to prevent yourself from lagging out of the game from so many client-side requests being sent out to Blizzard's server.


These same types of keybind macros can also be used to create perfect jump macros, etc so that you never mess up. The technology is there: whether you're completely automating the play by using a Bot that is prohibited by Blizzard to automatically return a flag, or if you are binding it to a macro on your Razer/Logitech keyboard/mouse, there are better ways to perform core functions than the old days. And if you want to be able to compete on equal footing with other twinks, then the community needs to be educated on these sorts of things.

What I'm seeing now is a community largely oblivious to the advantages (fair and unfair, legal and illegal) being taken by certain players and then such players suppressing this knowledge from being accessed by other twinks so as to prevent them from gaining access to the same, level playing field.

Perhaps there needs to be another intervention to get the wider community caught up to speed on what the "top twinks" are really using in-game. This might, surprise surprise, show why they are even considered "good" in the first place--because they know about the tricks concerning scrolling/jump macros that the vast rest of the community (see: the Plebs) do not.


I think I'll leave my post at that and leave it for others to chew on/mull over.
 
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Darklumiya said:
Can somebody enlighten me as to why the most IRRELEVANT people are the ones proposing the most absurd, backwards thinking actions?

Nobody is getting banned for botting 100bgs.

Anybody who thinks pizza used that shit at 19 is a moron and is only seeking to ban people they know they have 0 chance of beating in the cup.

you people are crazy and the people tagging along are even more clueless
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The 2 people that brought this up are not even interested in playing in this "Twink Cup". Don't flatter yourself.
 
Painaid said:
There is so much naivete in this thread, so let's clear some things up:


This isn't a common law court, nor is the 19 twink community the government. There is no substantive burden of proof. The evidence presented showed that Pizza was posting on the HB forums, that he 1) paid for the flag pickup bot and 2) was asking questions to its maker to improve upon its performance, and 3) was versed in druid combat routines.

A reasonable person can come to the rational conclusion that Pizza purchased the bot to gain an illegal competitive advantage over other 19s. That is the only premise proffered.

You know very well it would be impossible to prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt. But there is no burden of proof here, nor did I ever intend to create such an investigation. This is for the community to decide for themselves. The defensive nature of SR's posts shows that they take quite an offense to the accusations. That is to be expected regardless of truth or falsity. But the fact that Pizza was metaphorically caught with his pants down when a link showed him asking questions about the auto flag-pick up bot actually creates a presumption against him--that he DID use the bot. And he has not made any attempt to deny such involvement, nor would he likely be able to absent losing credibility.

And there are other bots out there besides Honorbuddy. A flag returning bot is not that complicated and there have been independent projects done to create stand-alone flag-pick up bots. Quick searches on Google or Ownedcore, etc, will show you to those bots. I will say that they are there, but I won't do your job for you in finding them.

You, Darkchewie, Pizza, and others in SR can try to intimidate people into thinking this investigation is pointless, stupid, etc. But this wouldn't even be a discussion if someone hadn't been silly enough to post on the HonorBuddy forums, asking for help with an Auto Flag-returning bot under a name that he is well-known for. You have only yourselves to blame in getting this sloppy with trying to find competitive advantages. I would have thought that by this time, such individuals would be better at hiding their trails. Which is what leads me to speculate the problem is more rampant than the evidence can show (not everyone is stupid enough to post on the HB forums for such products, thus basically indicting themselves by their own actions).


Not sure if serious. But if so, then many of the new age twinks, such as yourself, truly are delusional. No offense intended, but it's really the only word I can think of to describe your train of thought. If not, then nice troll.

And as for "being noticeable" it's fairly obvious that the twink community has very little knowledge into how bots operate. These are not automated bots--they are still controlled (movement-wise) by the player. But the Bot works as an aid to, say, make faster returns, to catch rogues out of stealth, to stop-cast before an incoming interrupt, etc. So, no, it would not be "quiet noticeable" at all because the average 19 is not well-versed in how bots work. This part just reeks of ignorance on how the bots of today function. Even a person who is seasoned in botting would have trouble actually spotting botters who are running complex routines yet are still at the keyboard controlling the movement, etc. To think that someone such as yourself, who has no experience in this area, would be able to spot such discrepancies is laughable.

Someone else mentions the fact that Pizza streams as evidence of not botting. Again, this reeks of ignorance of how bots function. First, streams are usually fixed to only show the WoW screen + maybe a camera on the actual person IRL. Second, Honorbuddy has no watermark or other mechanism in game. It is injected directly into the game itself. There is no bot interface, etc. There would be no way to tell whatsoever from watching a stream whether one is botting or not botting. And again, the player controls the basic functions regardless, such as movement, etc.


That's it. I think it's time something is said about this whole "scrolling" nonsense as well. I keep seeing it said over and over now and I don't think people know what scrolling has actually become now--at least to those who are actually the best at doing it.

I honestly thought that most twinks just used the term scrolling because it's what they are familiar with as a term. It appears, however, that this is not the case for many. Don't delude yourself into thinking that that's what actual top 19s use to return flags. If this is so, then you truly are behind on the times and you stand no chance at competing in the TC simply because you have been technologically outmaneuvered by other players in the bracket.

The fact that people still attribute "scrolling" as the best method for returning flags is astonishing to say the least. The fact that there is still a Sticky to show people how to bind the "interact to mouseover function" in-game so that you can scroll shows how far behind many twinks are in being able to compete at an even skill level.

How many years has it been now that the truly best flag returners don't actually scroll? Instead, they bind the right click function to a Razer Keyboard/Mouse via the Razer Synapse function. You can then have it "right click" 100s of times per second--thus making it FAR more advanced than "scrolling".

I can make a video and upload it to YouTube if you need help in learning how to do this. I could also do a side-by-side comparison to show how much the macro keybind function with a Razer/Logitech keyboard/mouse is far more effective than simple scrolling.

I'm pulling these numbers out of my ass since I haven't the time to go online and test it on a site, but traditional scrolling, if used in the most efficient manner possible, even with one of those nice free-spinning mice, could get maybe 20 clicks/second. A Razer/Logitech keybind macro can register 200+ clicks/second to the point that you may actually have to lower it somewhat to prevent yourself from lagging out of the game from so many client-side requests being sent out to Blizzard's server.


These same types of keybind macros can also be used to create perfect jump macros, etc so that you never mess up. The technology is there: whether you're completely automating the play by using a Bot that is prohibited by Blizzard to automatically return a flag, or if you are binding it to a macro on your Razer/Logitech keyboard/mouse, there are better ways to perform core functions than the old days. And if you want to be able to compete on equal footing with other twinks, then the community needs to be educated on these sorts of things.

What I'm seeing now is a community largely oblivious to the advantages (fair and unfair, legal and illegal) being taken by certain players and then such players suppressing this knowledge from being accessed by other twinks so as to prevent them from gaining access to the same, level playing field.

Perhaps there needs to be another intervention to get the wider community caught up to speed on what the "top twinks" are really using in-game. This might, surprise surprise, show why they are even considered "good" in the first place--because they know about the tricks concerning scrolling/jump macros that the vast rest of the community (see: the Plebs) do not.


I think I'll leave my post at that and leave it for others to chew on/mull over.
Click to expand...

I am aware of such razer capabilities, but i will not bring myself to use that. Also, I heard your prodigy dradform uses that "perfect jump capabilty" some kind of script. Shame really.
 
lmao the ego's the majority of you have over your playstyle within a bracket with such a low skill-cap is astonishing to say the least
 
Freestylex said:
lmao the ego's the majority of you have over your playstyle within a bracket with such a low skill-cap is astonishing to say the least
Click to expand...
Especially when such "skill" that separates the best from the mediocre can actually be easily replicated.

"19 TWINKS HATE THIS GUY. HE FOUND THE SECRET TO BEING "GOOD" IN THE 19 BRACKET. CLICK HERE TO LEARN MORE."
 
Painaid said:
There is so much naivete in this thread, so let's clear some things up:


This isn't a common law court, nor is the 19 twink community the government. There is no substantive burden of proof. The evidence presented showed that Pizza was posting on the HB forums, that he 1) paid for the flag pickup bot and 2) was asking questions to its maker to improve upon its performance, and 3) was versed in druid combat routines.

A reasonable person can come to the rational conclusion that Pizza purchased the bot to gain an illegal competitive advantage over other 19s. That is the only premise proffered.

You know very well it would be impossible to prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt. But there is no burden of proof here, nor did I ever intend to create such an investigation. This is for the community to decide for themselves. The defensive nature of SR's posts shows that they take quite an offense to the accusations. That is to be expected regardless of truth or falsity. But the fact that Pizza was metaphorically caught with his pants down when a link showed him asking questions about the auto flag-pick up bot actually creates a presumption against him--that he DID use the bot. And he has not made any attempt to deny such involvement, nor would he likely be able to absent losing credibility.

And there are other bots out there besides Honorbuddy. A flag returning bot is not that complicated and there have been independent projects done to create stand-alone flag-pick up bots. Quick searches on Google or Ownedcore, etc, will show you to those bots. I will say that they are there, but I won't do your job for you in finding them.

You, Darkchewie, Pizza, and others in SR can try to intimidate people into thinking this investigation is pointless, stupid, etc. But this wouldn't even be a discussion if someone hadn't been silly enough to post on the HonorBuddy forums, asking for help with an Auto Flag-returning bot under a name that he is well-known for. You have only yourselves to blame in getting this sloppy with trying to find competitive advantages. I would have thought that by this time, such individuals would be better at hiding their trails. Which is what leads me to speculate the problem is more rampant than the evidence can show (not everyone is stupid enough to post on the HB forums for such products, thus basically indicting themselves by their own actions).


Not sure if serious. But if so, then many of the new age twinks, such as yourself, truly are delusional. No offense intended, but it's really the only word I can think of to describe your train of thought. If not, then nice troll.

And as for "being noticeable" it's fairly obvious that the twink community has very little knowledge into how bots operate. These are not automated bots--they are still controlled (movement-wise) by the player. But the Bot works as an aid to, say, make faster returns, to catch rogues out of stealth, to stop-cast before an incoming interrupt, etc. So, no, it would not be "quiet noticeable" at all because the average 19 is not well-versed in how bots work. This part just reeks of ignorance on how the bots of today function. Even a person who is seasoned in botting would have trouble actually spotting botters who are running complex routines yet are still at the keyboard controlling the movement, etc. To think that someone such as yourself, who has no experience in this area, would be able to spot such discrepancies is laughable.

Someone else mentions the fact that Pizza streams as evidence of not botting. Again, this reeks of ignorance of how bots function. First, streams are usually fixed to only show the WoW screen + maybe a camera on the actual person IRL. Second, Honorbuddy has no watermark or other mechanism in game. It is injected directly into the game itself. There is no bot interface, etc. There would be no way to tell whatsoever from watching a stream whether one is botting or not botting. And again, the player controls the basic functions regardless, such as movement, etc.


That's it. I think it's time something is said about this whole "scrolling" nonsense as well. I keep seeing it said over and over now and I don't think people know what scrolling has actually become now--at least to those who are actually the best at doing it.

I honestly thought that most twinks just used the term scrolling because it's what they are familiar with as a term. It appears, however, that this is not the case for many. Don't delude yourself into thinking that that's what actual top 19s use to return flags. If this is so, then you truly are behind on the times and you stand no chance at competing in the TC simply because you have been technologically outmaneuvered by other players in the bracket.

The fact that people still attribute "scrolling" as the best method for returning flags is astonishing to say the least. The fact that there is still a Sticky to show people how to bind the "interact to mouseover function" in-game so that you can scroll shows how far behind many twinks are in being able to compete at an even skill level.

How many years has it been now that the truly best flag returners don't actually scroll? Instead, they bind the right click function to a Razer Keyboard/Mouse via the Razer Synapse function. You can then have it "right click" 100s of times per second--thus making it FAR more advanced than "scrolling".

I can make a video and upload it to YouTube if you need help in learning how to do this. I could also do a side-by-side comparison to show how much the macro keybind function with a Razer/Logitech keyboard/mouse is far more effective than simple scrolling.

I'm pulling these numbers out of my ass since I haven't the time to go online and test it on a site, but traditional scrolling, if used in the most efficient manner possible, even with one of those nice free-spinning mice, could get maybe 20 clicks/second. A Razer/Logitech keybind macro can register 200+ clicks/second to the point that you may actually have to lower it somewhat to prevent yourself from lagging out of the game from so many client-side requests being sent out to Blizzard's server.


These same types of keybind macros can also be used to create perfect jump macros, etc so that you never mess up. The technology is there: whether you're completely automating the play by using a Bot that is prohibited by Blizzard to automatically return a flag, or if you are binding it to a macro on your Razer/Logitech keyboard/mouse, there are better ways to perform core functions than the old days. And if you want to be able to compete on equal footing with other twinks, then the community needs to be educated on these sorts of things.

What I'm seeing now is a community largely oblivious to the advantages (fair and unfair, legal and illegal) being taken by certain players and then such players suppressing this knowledge from being accessed by other twinks so as to prevent them from gaining access to the same, level playing field.

Perhaps there needs to be another intervention to get the wider community caught up to speed on what the "top twinks" are really using in-game. This might, surprise surprise, show why they are even considered "good" in the first place--because they know about the tricks concerning scrolling/jump macros that the vast rest of the community (see: the Plebs) do not.


I think I'll leave my post at that and leave it for others to chew on/mull over.
Click to expand...


I'm sorry, but as much as you try to paint this like you are ONLY looking out for the community, it is obvious to me that you are still heavily influenced by a grudge against Pizza from years ago that will never go away, and I can't take you seriously. You're goal of scaring everyone into believing Pizza is this dirty, conniving cheater will work on the dim-witted witch hunters for sure, but the bias is just too blatant for me.

The people who ACTUALLY know Pizza, not the people who base their opinion off how he has been painted on TI throughout the years, know that he wants to win this thing fair and square just like last year.

I'm done posting on the topic because I know you people won't change your minds because you WANT to believe he is a cheater and that's really a shame because he is not. Anyone who thinks i'm a liar clearly doesn't know me and what I represent because all I care about is the integrity of this cup.
 
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