Blizz rumored to be " Nuking Twinks from orbit " in upcoming TW's

[SPQR]

This would be classic Blizzard. Every time they try and do ilvl scaling, it's always a disaster. Always.

They could pretty much just solve this "problem" (of the "fun detected" variety) by lowering the ilvls of some key gear. TBC/WotLK dungeon gear from 30 -> 20 (at 11) and TW gear from 60 to 30. Mechagon rings too. And maybe lower gems from +4 Agi/Int and +2 Primary/Secondary to +2 and +1 srespectively. They kinda did this in DF when they dropped WoD dungeon gear from 42/56 (non-Warforged/WF) to 24/29.

Here's another thought: I wonder if the system is dumb enough to look at your spec's primary stat and you could get around this by choosing a spec with a different primary stat and just using whatever ability is key from the general tree.

I'm thinking of classes like Druid (Agi/Int), Monk (Agi/Int), Paladin (Str/Int), etc.

Now generally speaking gear designed for such classes will have both specs Primary stat but that's not always true.

it also depends on how abilities scale. Like Spinning Crane Kick: does it scale with Int as MW and Agi as BM/WW? I would guess that it does but has it been tested?

There are some items I'd actually like from BFA TW on some alts but if I can't rerun dungeons it's just not going to happen. I'm thinking of the Balefire Branch from Waycrest Manor and there's a H/M shield from Atal'dazar (most shields are +Vers, which isn't ideal for Ele/Resto Shaman).

In order to solve "problem" they first have to decide wtf they want this feature to be.

First they added it like "original experience" of old dungeons.
Then they made people scale down,
then up
then they made mobs to scale to player level
then they made it level 10+
buffed experience gain and aimed for it to be a leveling thing?
then they made every tw version scale different in hardness
now they brought back ghetto templates because leveling fast and having dipshits pull entire instances bad?

It can work with scaling but they need pre set track of levels and someone with brain and gameplay knowledge to go level by level just one time and then to actually stick to the scaling curve for more than 1 patch.
Really i feel sorry for any new person who is going to experience kings rest as a beginner.
Making all that slower or have us less raw stats is bandage fix i feel like

Dagnabit! Why did you have to mention Balefire branch, i wasnt planning on running any timewalking but now i need that on my priest and druid. Doesn't really matter as the on use is the thing but ilvl!

Still 100 intellect on tw version. No reason min maxing it. Was back again to 20 intellect in pvp scaling anyway.

I will absolutely never run dungeons with just weapons and rings equipped, idc if its faster that shit is whack.

Well it is a pride month after all. You will undress and you will love it!

 

[Neon]

the soul cleave from last boss in atal'dazzar 1 shots me everytime too, kings rest is atleast avoidable cuz you just have to not stand in shit

 

[Eleven]

Just ran my 1st TW this week, Freehold.

More health. Everything.... Way more health. Bosses feel like they take regular amount of time to die like I was playing an 80.
My DPS was 10x the next closest person, but previously it would be 20x or more because most shit was dead before anyone else could even get an auto attack off.
Used Bloodlust and slam on bosses. Not sure if thats an increase versus just spamming whirlwind.
Will be interesting to see what the new stat meta is, I am gemmed super heavy into STR but from reading the last couple of pages lower primary stat equals lower boss health, but I'm bad at reading so who knows.

 

[Eleven]

Just ran Kings rest where my DPS was only like 5x 2nd place and several things absolutely melted my face

 

[Lizzandra]

Join the Discord! What we've found so far (subject to further testing):
* Mob/Boss HP scales with your primary stat. Big jumps at certain breakpoints too.
* Gear without your primary stat doesn't affect the mob/boss HP, *except* for heirlooms. A green +Int cloth shoulder won't change HP for a Fury Warrior, but the heirloom version will.
* Potions also count if they're your class's actual primary stat.
* Secondary stats (Crit / Mastery / Haste / Vers) don't count. Neither do Lifestealing, Shadowlands speed/health gems, and so on.

Amusingly, since the above is scaled to benefit new players and semi-punish twinks, a "naked" twink (TW weapons, DF amulet, TWW rings, little else) is doing pretty well compared to a full decked out one.

Looks like you are spot on. Just saw an 11 monk with all secondary stat gems...breezed through a dungeon like it was pre-patch.

 

[Slumped]

Looks like you are spot on. Just saw an 11 monk with all secondary stat gems...breezed through a dungeon like it was pre-patch.

Can you provide more details as to what they had equipped? If you noticed wearing cloth to remove agi, etc.

 

[telanis]

My 90% optimized Havoc 11 twink is still blasting. Mechanics hit harder but I can't tell yet if it's just BFA content or not. Just gotta be on top of not standing in stupid though so it's fine

 

[Rahn]

This just affects Timewalking. Went into TBC dungeons to grab weapons (to test if weapon DPS mattered - it doesn't), and mobs had 375 hp or something similarly tiny.

One thing I forgot to mention earlier - Attack Power does *not* affect scaling, and Spellpower likely doesn't either.

I'm going to start with limiting an 11 Fury twink to 62 Str, then trading over +Agi/Int leather/mail to fill in blanks. Mob HP scaling starts accelerating around 62 Str. I've attached a file with what I found and posted on Discord.

Just some numbers for Soulbound Goliath at level 11.

Base HPS 11027 (From 35 -57 STR)

58 STR: 11051 (+24)
59 STR: 11097 (+46)
60 STR: 11143 (+46)
61 STR: 11189 (+46)
62 STR: 11235 (+46)
63 STR: 11315 (+80)

Shows the same kind of scaling that Priestess Alun'za has where the hp gain spikes at 63 STR.

Just some extra info for higher str levels.

119 STR: 22439
120 STR: 22658 (+219)

Seems the TW meta is going to be gem and enchant for secondary stats only, and to seek out gear that doesn't have primary stat; which will be most commonly trinkets, rings, necks, and certain weapons. Socketed TBC gear will probably remain BIS, with advantage going to STR and AGI classes who can get socketed gear without their main stat. INT classes are probably out of luck on that front.

Though this is just for people who really want to min-max this. There seems to be +22-27 main stat wiggle room, and that's probably doable with some creative gear choices.

 

[cletus]

Just some numbers for Soulbound Goliath at level 11.

Base HPS 11027 (From 35 -57 STR)

58 STR: 11051 (+24)
59 STR: 11097 (+46)
60 STR: 11143 (+46)
61 STR: 11189 (+46)
62 STR: 11235 (+46)
63 STR: 11315 (+80)

Shows the same kind of scaling that Priestess Alun'za has where the hp gain spikes at 63 STR.

Just some extra info for higher str levels.

119 STR: 22439
120 STR: 22658 (+219)

Seems the TW meta is going to be gem and enchant for secondary stats only, and to seek out gear that doesn't have primary stat; which will be most commonly trinkets, rings, necks, and certain weapons. Socketed TBC gear will probably remain BIS, with advantage going to STR and AGI classes who can get socketed gear without their main stat. INT classes are probably out of luck on that front.

Though this is just for people who really want to min-max this. There seems to be +22-27 main stat wiggle room, and that's probably doable with some creative gear choices.

Are there better secondary stat gems than the SL clusters that will be +2 secondary for 10-20s?

It's a good lesson for anyone about why you should never delete old gear. I'm going to go on a hunt for non-primary stat gear.

 

[Vaesin]

Are there better secondary stat gems than the SL clusters that will be +2 secondary for 10-20s?

Per Beti's guide, there are +3 secondaries, just no primary stats on them - a good thing for now.

It's a good lesson for anyone about why you should never delete old gear. I'm going to go on a hunt for non-primary stat gear.

Only reason I could make those charts is because I happened to keep a bunch of ilvl 30 gear.

 

[Rahn]

Are there better secondary stat gems than the SL clusters that will be +2 secondary for 10-20s?

It's a good lesson for anyone about why you should never delete old gear. I'm going to go on a hunt for non-primary stat gear.

The best secondary stat gems are probably going to be the +2/2 secondary stat gems, most likely the haste/crit flavored ones for most classes.

As far as the hunt for gear without primary stat goes, they're probably going to be found in Classic and TBC. Though I doubt most drops will beat out socketed off-primary TBC gear, since that's going to give +8-16 secondaries per socket when gemmed correctly.

In terms of weapons without primary stats off the top of my head the two that come to mind:
https://www.wowhead.com/item=232904/sulthraze-the-lasher
https://www.wowhead.com/item=13393/malowns-slam

 

[werth05]

My 11 fury warriors is pretty geared and I can 100% confirm after regemming everything from 2/2 to all sub stats, TW are a breeze like before! Hope this helps <3

 

[parry10359]

if a trinket procs strength, and it procs after the boss is engaged, does the bosses health bump up dynamically? I guess the follow up would be does it bump up at all, like if it procs before engaging boss?

 

[setsunahq]

Just did a run didn’t see any difference, you can now thank me for my contribution.

 

[parry10359]

Just did a run didn’t see any difference, you can now thank me for my contribution.

tyfys

 

[Vaesin]

Updated the original file, this time going from Str 32 up to Str 100. Other classes had the same progression with their primary stat.