Best Plate for Sun-Lute at 85?

[twinkheaven]

Thinking of rolling a 85 that can equip Sun-Lute.
What do you think is the most OP at 85? Paladin???DK??? or Warrior?
thanks!

 

[Zarcyder]

Paladin

 

[Hapsen]

in a 1v1 lute fight pally shuld win vs warr dk.
for top dmg in every bg it shuld be unh dk.
cant decide if dk or ret is better for 2's but its warr or dk for 3's
frost "bignumber" vs ret "bignumber" is a ret win........ them cd's
cant tell you anything about pve.

 

[Splosion]

For most use -> DK hands down. For most PvP capable class -> Probably Paladin.

 

[Whatgoesup]

Warriors are pretty crap...

Best class... I'd prolly say DK.

 

[ReneQT]

Just roll what ever you enjoy.. I went warrior over DK/Pally and I have no trouble topping BGs, 2v2 as a warrior with current resil is pretty clutch but 3s and 5s aren't so bad.

If your constantly playing on your own you might find pally a bit better, bubble/bop etc and flash heals that will take you from nothing to full along with alot of ranged damage makes them a much easier solo class to play.

I've only come across one DK with lute in game but most ret pallies dont give me any trouble anymore, for armory links look up Soylent, he's an 85 tauren pally with lute, Scratchell is as well but he's not all best in slot yet. For a warrior look up Reneqt, full bis

Any of them that you pick are more than viable, all just different play styles and if they implement a resil change to 65% then they'll all be pretty well balanced.

 

[Chadbrochill17]

I play a Warrior and a DK at 85.

chardev 10 - Mist of Pandaria - BETA
Living Steel weapon chain can be good, Play arms - Fury is shit. Crit > Master >= Haste. 2 set DS tier isn't that amazing. Its nice tho.
Warbringer Talent is VERY bugged atm. I'd recommend Bull Rush or Double Time. Second wind is the only option. PH > Staggering imo. Dragons Roar is the only option. SW blows. Pick the glyphs ur comforatble with. Warrior has some nice choices unlike most classes.

chardev 10 - Mist of Pandaria - BETA
-Frost Spec, Blood Presence is optimal, Gem Str. Get alchy, BS ,jc ,tailoring for human. Engi, LW, Scribe work aswell. More expensive is all. Make sure you have a PVP trinket(2 min cc breaker) if ur not a human. Mastery > Haste > Crit for secondary stats. Dancing Steel is better then FC for procs and overall damage. Unholy blight... no other option. Lichborne... no there viable option. Asphyx, Chillblains, DA are all nice in there own way. Death Pact is the only option because it doesn't cost RP which you will be starved for Blood Pres.

DW frost doesn't work because it reqs frost pres for RP gen. You lose roughly 75k hp(in a BG), a truck load of armor, and passive damage reduction.



WHICH IS MORE FUN? Warrior by a mile. Being full BIS and 1v5ing people with 130k oblits and 90k FS being spammed is probably the most boring thing after the first 4 weeks. Warrior is much harder to play then 85 dk(Fdk is the most broken melee in 85s atm), capable of a tad less at skill cap.

 

[Aelobin]

chardev 10 - Mist of Pandaria - BETA
-Frost Spec, Blood Presence is optimal, Gem Str. Get alchy, BS ,jc ,tailoring for human. Engi, LW, Scribe work aswell. More expensive is all. Make sure you have a PVP trinket(2 min cc breaker) if ur not a human. Mastery > Haste > Crit for secondary stats. Dancing Steel is better then FC for procs and overall damage. Unholy blight... no other option. Lichborne... no there viable option. Asphyx, Chillblains, DA are all nice in there own way. Death Pact is the only option because it doesn't cost RP which you will be starved for Blood Pres.

Fallen Crusader has nearly a 100% uptime as a level 85 twink (check this video or this video) and grants me 1300 strength (Frost spec, dps gear, unbuffed), plus the added bonus of a 3% heal.

You're also better off gemming for secondary stats as those gems have double the stat budget of the strength ones.

 

[Splosion]

<snip about DKs>

Just stopped here:

-Frost Spec, Blood Presence is optimal

You'd be way better off as unholy. Frost in blood presence < unholy in blood presence, just saiyan.

Professions should _always_ be alchemy + Blacksmithing. Trinket from alchemy is twice as good as any of the alternatives, and BS gives twice as many stats as the alternatives. If you're not this combination of professions, you're not doing something right.

Also:

DW frost doesn't work because it reqs frost pres for RP gen. You lose roughly 75k hp(in a BG), a truck load of armor, and passive damage reduction.

Do you know your own class? 2H frost requires frost presence for RP gen too...

Oh, and priority for 2H frost is Haste>Crit>Mastery, so you're entirely wrong on that one.

This entire post made me laugh a little. Unbreakable waistplate as DPS? Please.

 

[ReneQT]

Unbreakable Waistplate is best in slot for any plate dps at 85... The next best thing is ghost-forged, using ghost forged of the avatar you might end up with a bit more crit or mastery but you'll be missing a huge chunk of stam and strength. Plus with item scaling the gap between these two items in a bg is quite a bit larger.

I wouldn't say dragons roar is the only option, Shockwave and blade storm both have their perks. Dragons Roar does work pretty well in duels or 1v1/1v2 but with larger groups the damage is sub par to bladestorm. I find myself using bladestorm and Dragons Roar more then Shock Wave at the moment just because the bracket is so bursty at the moment.

As far as specs go they're both pretty viable considering it's pretty easy to get over 40% crit as fury. But once you join a bg and get scaled up to 89 that crit will drop down to 25% or so, making it much harder to keep yourself enraged so you'll find you'll be hitting like a noodle as fury. In arenas and world pvp, I'll run around as fury sometime for lol crits, two dancing steel procs, alch trink, daelo's and sword guard emroidery lets me crit for 140-200k on players with dragons roar (single target obv).

The OP was looking for feedback on plate classes with lute so I'm not sure why we've deviated into discussing best in slot items 0_o

Reneqt @ Frostmourne - Community - World of Warcraft

Anyway <3 Rene, I'm happy to que bgs with people if they want to see some warrior rollface in action via battle tag

 

[Twiztid7652]

Runescriven Demon Collar - Item - World of Warcraft is a viable waist replacement.

 

[ReneQT]

It's not bad, but it's still lacking in stats + you can't fit a MOP crit gem in it.

 

[Splosion]

You guys are terrible at looking things up.

Waistguard of Flaming Words - Item - World of Warcraft

Takes a MoP gem, has far more useful secondary stats. Only reason you'd want the tank belt is the stamina.

 

[Peanutx]

pvp is paladin

 

[Hapsen]

I play a Warrior and a DK at 85.

chardev 10 - Mist of Pandaria - BETA
Living Steel weapon chain can be good, Play arms - Fury is shit. Crit > Master >= Haste. 2 set DS tier isn't that amazing. Its nice tho.
Warbringer Talent is VERY bugged atm. I'd recommend Bull Rush or Double Time. Second wind is the only option. PH > Staggering imo. Dragons Roar is the only option. SW blows. Pick the glyphs ur comforatble with. Warrior has some nice choices unlike most classes.

its crit > haste > mastery.. especially with the slow swing time of the lute..
warbringer is in no way bugged... the way to spec a warr atm (with tier one and four) is juggernaut + shockwave or warbringer + dragon's roar.. bladestorm and double-time is shit no matter what you use it with..
pircing howl is good but staggering is a 40 sec cd that is basically an instant ice block or deterrence.. aka verry good against counters.
for glyphs bull rush and death from above is a must.. third spot is free to do whatever with..
this is all for pvp there might be some changes for pve but reforges are the same..

 

[ReneQT]

You guys are terrible at looking things up.

Waistguard of Flaming Words - Item - World of Warcraft

Takes a MoP gem, has far more useful secondary stats. Only reason you'd want the tank belt is the stamina.

The only issue with that as a warrior is that in pvp haste is pretty useless (although better then dodge/hit) you'd lose a reasonably chunk of stam and 180ish str, reforging the haste to mastery makes it a nice all round belt. But at 55% mastery I'd much rather the strength and stam from Unbreakable, once over 50% mastery as arms the stat really starts to lose it's appeal.

Fury is another story though, I'd definitely be using that as a fury warrior just to get the extra crit and mastery from reforging. (Mastery as fury is a flat damage boost when your enraged)

I'm only speaking from a warrior perspective though, I haven't played a DK since WOTLK so I can't really comment on that front.

 

[Chadbrochill17]

Just stopped here:

You'd be way better off as unholy. Frost in blood presence < unholy in blood presence, just saiyan.

Professions should _always_ be alchemy + Blacksmithing. Trinket from alchemy is twice as good as any of the alternatives, and BS gives twice as many stats as the alternatives. If you're not this combination of professions, you're not doing something right.

Also:

Do you know your own class? 2H frost requires frost presence for RP gen too...

Oh, and priority for 2H frost is Haste>Crit>Mastery, so you're entirely wrong on that one.

This entire post made me laugh a little. Unbreakable waistplate as DPS? Please.

"Oh, and priority for 2H frost is Haste>Crit>Mastery, so you're entirely wrong on that one"
1. This isn't 90. You are clueless. Mastery benefits are very high for HB still for 2h frost.
2. 2h Frost doesn't require as much RP as DW frost. DW frost is based of Frost Strike. 2-3 Oblits will kill anyone in this bracket on a full geared frost.
3. Unbreakable is bis for any melee. The raw STR/STAM bonus is better then the 81 belt.
4. Do you have a 85 even? Do you know how this bracket works?
5. Unholy is awful in 85s. This bracket is based around burst. Ok. Stack up 4 necrotics on someone and then spam Death Coil(they are at 50%) Hit oblit 2-3 times and they are dead.
6. JC has a total gain of over 400 str. Your legs can be gemmed with cata jc gems and your Belt/gloves w/e can be gemmed with MOP jc gems. Tailoring has a amazing 4000 ap proc. They can all be useful.

"Mr Theory"

You are clueless on 85s mr. theory. please leave.
[MENTION=19664]ReneQT[/MENTION], This splosion kid is clueless.

 

[Whatgoesup]

The only issue with that as a warrior is that in pvp haste is pretty useless.

Nope. Your reforge should be Crit>Haste>Mastery. Mastery for Arms is pretty bad and with the slow attack speed of the Lute Haste is much better. I don't think the raw str makes up for the secondary stats.

"Oh, and priority for 2H frost is Haste>Crit>Mastery, so you're entirely wrong on that one"
1. This isn't 90. You are clueless. Mastery benefits are very high for HB still for 2h frost.

Look, the reason it's Haste>Crit>Mastery is because of Killing Machine. More Haste = more Killing Machine procs = more Obliterate crits.
Also, your Howling Blast might benifit a lot for Mastery, but you shouldn't be spamming Howling Blast. You should be saving those runs for your Obliterate. Tune your secondary stats so your primary damage ability (Oblitate) benefits the most.

2. 2h Frost doesn't require as much RP as DW frost. DW frost is based of Frost Strike. 2-3 Oblits will kill anyone in this bracket on a full geared frost.

This one comes to to personal preference, and situation. When batteling a group with no healers, Blood is the best choise due to amazing Stamina and Armor increase and reduced damage. However, when you have a healer with you, I'd change to Unholy for the increased attack speed. As I stated above, more Haste = more Killing Machine procs. Frost Presence is also a viable options if you feel like you have nothing you can use inbetween runes and with the increased Runic Power and the reduced cost of Frost Strike you'll never have down time.

3. Unbreakable is bis for any melee. The raw STR/STAM bonus is better then the 81 belt.

Unbreakable is not BiS, not now, not ever. The secondary stats prove to be a much bigger damage improval than the raw Strength bonus. Also, the Stamina bonus only provides you with 3.3k extra health. Definiatly not worth it.

 

[Splosion]

"Oh, and priority for 2H frost is Haste>Crit>Mastery, so you're entirely wrong on that one"
1. This isn't 90. You are clueless. Mastery benefits are very high for HB still for 2h frost.
2. 2h Frost doesn't require as much RP as DW frost. DW frost is based of Frost Strike. 2-3 Oblits will kill anyone in this bracket on a full geared frost.
3. Unbreakable is bis for any melee. The raw STR/STAM bonus is better then the 81 belt.
4. Do you have a 85 even? Do you know how this bracket works?
5. Unholy is awful in 85s. This bracket is based around burst. Ok. Stack up 4 necrotics on someone and then spam Death Coil(they are at 50%) Hit oblit 2-3 times and they are dead.
6. JC has a total gain of over 400 str. Your legs can be gemmed with cata jc gems and your Belt/gloves w/e can be gemmed with MOP jc gems. Tailoring has a amazing 4000 ap proc. They can all be useful.

"Mr Theory"

You are clueless on 85s mr. theory. please leave.
ReneQT, This splosion kid is clueless.

Answering your questions in order.

1. Why would this make any difference if we're playing 85 vs 90? 85 Doesn't exactly start with that much more haste, so you're looking at picking 2H's weakest stat for playing a DW playstyle (focus on HB)? You'd probably be better off leaning on crit. Mastery benefits your most mentioned spell (Obliterate) in no way whatsoever.
2. Doesn't require as much isn't the same as doesn't need. If your burst is stalled, you're stuck for resources unless you literally cast nothing. Not exactly helping your ability to kill anyone, is it?
3. Yup, and I'm sure the dodge/hit gains you so much. Do some damn research.
4. I'm fully aware of how this bracket works. That said, chances are its hardly worth playing with resilience being as useless as it currently is.
5. Unholy has just as much burst as frost. My partner was getting kills as unholy far more reliably than as frost, and we'd destroy any frost dk we queued into. It also has the advantage of not relying on melee attacking so much as frost, which is huge if you're facing a roots spamming class.
6. Cata jwc was a gain of 67*3 - 50*3 = 51 str, and MoP jwc was a gain of 320 str (320 str gems instead of 160 str gems). 320 + 51 is 371. How is that more than 400? Not to mention if you don't use the DS gear you're not going to get the cata jwc benefit anyway.

BS gives no different, but if you're stacking secondaries anywhere else it's a clear gain. Alchemy is also plain better than both, since the 466 trinket has twice the stats of any of the alternatives.

Don't insult me, I'm not perfect in my knowledge of the game, but neither are you. Acting as if you know what's right without providing correct numbers isn't going to get you anywhere.

 

[twinkheaven]

thank you everyone for giving me so much info!
i guess i will either level up my 80 dk twink or relevel a paladin since i tend to be a solo player aka WTB FRIENDS or pocket healers!!! haha
apprecaite teh help!