Best in Slot Player vs. Player

Please note how Blood, has two chardev.



Both are two viable options, no one forces you to follow the one that seems less effective to you, but since i had a lot of requests to add that weapon, it ended in the list.
 
But here's the thing, less effective to me = less effective to everyone. And since we are talking about "BiS" builds here being the most viable is what you should be aiming for.



For instance, say a blood FC with reaver in a RBG encounters a mirror attacking force while on D



That is, (Blood FC with reaver, a disc priest and a rogue) VS (Blood DK with exact same gear EXCEPT he uses apolyon, same geared disc priest and rogue).



Now while this is a hypothetical situation, if we assume both sides have equal skill and there is no flag debuff - who do you think will win?



For 1% more resil you lose:



65 stam

68 DPS

84 attack power

2.03 haste

1.91 crit



And survivability as a whole because of the fact you are less effective in defending yourself. 1% resilience in the grand scheme of things is what is minimal and does not help yourself or your team overall.
 
Shizentai said:
But here's the thing, less effective to me = less effective to everyone. And since we are talking about "BiS" builds here being the most viable is what you should be aiming for.



For instance, say a blood FC with reaver in a RBG encounters a mirror attacking force while on D



That is, (Blood FC with reaver, a disc priest and a rogue) VS (Blood DK with exact same gear EXCEPT he uses apolyon, same geared disc priest and rogue).



Now while this is a hypothetical situation, if we assume both sides have equal skill and there is no flag debuff - who do you think will win?



For 1% more resil you lose:



65 stam

68 DPS

84 attack power

2.03 haste

1.91 crit



And survivability as a whole because of the fact you are less effective in defending yourself. 1% resilience in the grand scheme of things is what is minimal and does not help yourself or your team overall.
Click to expand...



Hypothetical situations are hypothetical. Unless there was a large incoming enemy group, the reaver-user is likely to swap weapons. However, from a pure survival standpoint, you want the damage reduction. However, it's quite likely that 65 stam = the 27 resilience, since at this point we're pushing for as much as possible, and you'd probably see more survival from it.



But assuming no FC debuff, the extra damage reduction may well counter the extra damage from the opposing apolyon, thus buying you more time for your team to come and assist (if the FC gets into difficulty, who wouldn't send an extra player or two for backup?



I wouldn't assume your opinion is the only one. There are a vast majority of solutions to a problem, but as a flag carrier, in most real situations the only stats you care about are ones that increase your survival. Extra resilience does just that. Granted it's a vastly lower-ilevel weapon, but the point still stands.
 
But assuming no FC debuff, the extra damage reduction may well counter the extra damage from the opposing apolyon
Click to expand...
LOOLLL? 1% res > 68 DPS?



but as a flag carrier, in most real situations the only stats you care about are ones that increase your survival. Extra resilience does just that.
Click to expand...



Sorry but this is straightout facepalm worthy material and just shows how inexperienced you are. No one with common sense would drop apolyon for a 93 dps weapon for 1% resil and think it will give them an advantage.There is more to being an FC that just stacking res and in the hypothetical situation I mentioned, the reaver DK would not be able to put out enough dps pressure to kill the attackers, inevitably resulting in his defenders and himself getting killed. It's basically a 3v3. By gimping your dps MASSIVELY you are also gimping your survivability. How you fail to see the negative implications astounds me. The same goes for DK tanks in pve - they need survivability but they also need to hold threat. Using a weapon that has gimped DPS just because it may have a bit more dodge/parry is just bad. In the long run you will be getting hit more since mobs are dieing slower and you generate less threat. The only situation that where a DK FC would benefit from using reaver over apolyon is if the DK was standing still and not doing anything - but...that goes against the very nature of trying to stay alive as a FC.



If this fails to convince you then just lolololool
 
Shizentai said:
LOOLLL? 1% res > 68 DPS?







Sorry but this is straightout facepalm worthy material and just shows how inexperienced you are. No one with common sense would drop apolyon for a 93 dps weapon for 1% resil and think it will give them an advantage.There is more to being an FC that just stacking res and in the hypothetical situation I mentioned, the reaver DK would not be able to put out enough dps pressure to kill the attackers, inevitably resulting in his defenders and himself getting killed. It's basically a 3v3. By gimping your dps MASSIVELY you are also gimping your survivability. How you fail to see the negative implications astounds me. The same goes for DK tanks in pve - they need survivability but they also need to hold threat. Using a weapon that has gimped DPS just because it may have a bit more dodge/parry is just bad. In the long run you will be getting hit more since mobs are dieing slower and you generate less threat. The only situation that where a DK FC would benefit from using reaver over apolyon is if the DK was standing still and not doing anything - but...that goes against the very nature of trying to stay alive as a FC.



If this fails to convince you then just lolololool
Click to expand...



I never said that it was true in every case. Dks tend to not be able to hit casters at all times for example. What use is 68 weapon dps then? It's an option. That doesn't mean it's a be-all end all solution. Look at level cap RBGs, the prot warriors go for highest survival first, because their damage tends to not do a lot for their team, but the survival does.



Admittedly I first looked into using this because of my horrible lack of apolyon drops, but that's besides the point. I'll concede that the dps is a useful option, despite the fact that it isn't even 68 dps better (try actually doing better math). Why not have both?
 
Why not have both?



Because in 99% of situations when being a FC you will need to defend yourself.



This means that from the moment you pick up the flag you will encounter enemies that you and your team will need to kill in order to get across the field and survive. Doesn't matter if you are running solo or with 9 other teammates, your overall group will be stronger and more successful if you run with apolyon. With my blood DK i have soloed mages going after me as FC due to the fact I could kill them (<3 AMS). 2 Vs 1 bad rogues because I could kill them. No way would that have been possible if I had chosen 1% more resil + massive dps nerf. Blood DKs hit HARD (esp due to 4.3) and can handle themselves well - why you would want to take away their damage? Not being able to hit casters is a lame excuse as melee (rogues) will also always be on your at times (not to mention you have death grip for ranged) so weapon swapping for 1% resil is highly redundant. Hit like a wet noodle = die like a wet noodle.



Looking at high end RBGS they dont run blood FCs mostly, but if they did, you would never see a DK FC use or even switch to a wotlk weapon with like 250 dps just because it has more resil. Why? Because it's stupid. The option to use reaver is there, but that option is one that negatively affects your toon and others massively in a group situation. Since this is a BiS build topic it should be removed. Period.



Splosion said:
I'll concede that the dps is a useful option, despite the fact that it isn't even 68 dps better (try actually doing better math).
Click to expand...



Better math? What kind of "math" are you using? When switching between weps on that chardev it shows a MELEE 67/68 DPS difference. The actually value is 67.3 DPS (180.5 -> 247.8). This is the value that I'm looking at and is relevant. 55.5 DPS is the raw difference on the weapon tooltip, but this value does not take into account other differences in stats such as attack power, crit, haste etc. Still, this difference is insane - it's like comparing the best level 60 epic (MoM) to the best 70 epic (apolyon) which is 10 levels and an expansion's worth of difference.
 
Obviously there is still a considerable amount of work required to go into these and I have not tore apart the chardevs yet.



One small thing I noticed of what I read is that herbalism at 450 gives 240 haste not the 120 listed.
 
Why are my chardevs always better ?





You gotta know the class' chardev you're working on before doing anything.





Frost mages need to have 33% crit chance to be sure to crit on a frozen target.





Here are two of the best chardevs I've managed to make until now. Gonna work on better ones soonish.



#1 Chardev



Crit chance : 33,12%



Resilience rating : 536 = 34,88%



Hit cap : ok



Haste Rating : 18,45%



Spell power : 1243



#2 Chardev





Crit chance : 33,03%



Resilience rating : 461 = 30,85%



Hit cap : ok



Haste Rating : 23,15%



Spell power : 1381
 
Noble said:
Why are my chardevs always better ?





You gotta know the class' chardev you're working on before doing anything.





Frost mages need to have 33% crit chance to be sure to crit on a frozen target.





Here are two of the best chardevs I've managed to make until now. Gonna work on better ones soonish.



#1 Chardev



Crit chance : 33,12%



Resilience rating : 536 = 34,88%



Hit cap : ok



Haste Rating : 18,45%



Spell power : 1243



#2 Chardev





Crit chance : 33,03%



Resilience rating : 461 = 30,85%



Hit cap : ok



Haste Rating : 23,15%



Spell power : 1381
Click to expand...



How many times am i gona have to repat this.



This is ment to be a thread where people playing X class build up X chardev, i take no credit as clearly stated in the front page. I do not play every class in the bracket and therefore i'm clueless on several of them.



Edit : both your chardev have engineering trinkets, please, read carefully the front post before using any profession item.
 
A not-optimal twink isn't a twink.





Do I have to remind you what the definition of the "twink" ?



I mean seriously, what's the point in making such a topic if you're not doing it right... cmon



Quite sure this post gonna be "moderated" tho.
 
Noble said:
Do I have to remind you what the definition of the "twink" ?
Click to expand...



"Twink" is a gay slang term describing a young or young-looking gay man (18–23 age category) with a slender, ectomorph build, little or no body hair, and no facial hair. In some societies, the term chick or chicken is preferred.The related term twinkle-toes, which implies that a man is effeminate, tends to be used in a derogatory manner.The terms can be complimentary or pejorative.
 
Oliks said:
"Twink" is a gay slang term describing a young or young-looking gay man (18–23 age category) with a slender, ectomorph build, little or no body hair, and no facial hair. In some societies, the term chick or chicken is preferred.The related term twinkle-toes, which implies that a man is effeminate, tends to be used in a derogatory manner.The terms can be complimentary or pejorative.
Click to expand...



Hahaha pwnt.
 
Oliks said:
"Twink" is a gay slang term describing a young or young-looking gay man (18–23 age category) with a slender, ectomorph build, little or no body hair, and no facial hair. In some societies, the term chick or chicken is preferred.The related term twinkle-toes, which implies that a man is effeminate, tends to be used in a derogatory manner.The terms can be complimentary or pejorative.
Click to expand...



Well, there is also



"In an MMORPG, a veteran player who makes a new character and gives a bunch of top-shelf equipment from their older, maxed-out characters to the new character."



Quoted from Urban dictionary.
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Am I the only one who isn't able to get chardev to work normally? In Chrome I can't view any tabs aside from the main one.
 
Previously I had troubles with chardev on Chrome and IE, I'm not exactly sure what changed with my chrome to make it work though, sorry.



You could try other browsers, see if they don't give any problems.
 
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