Best DPS Pvewise?

[Aelobin]

I emailed the creator of Simcraft last night, asking if there was any way to add in the WotLK items/set bonuses again. He said it's possible but it would take a lot of work.

Looking through the SVN, I think these were the most recent versions of the 2 relevant source files before they removed the WotLK stuff:
- sc_unique_gear.cpp - simulationcraft - World of Warcraft DPS Simulator - Google Project Hosting
- sc_set_bonus.cpp - simulationcraft - World of Warcraft DPS Simulator - Google Project Hosting

Unfortunately it isn't as simple as just copying the code over and recompiling as there's been a lot of other changes since then and I've never programmed in C++ so I'm not sure if it's something I'll be able to do.

 

[Amaya]

How are DKs dps wise?

edit: Unholy is simming around 22k for me, 2H Frost 18k. Bleh.

I haven't done every class spec yet, but I'll share what I've seen

MM Hunter - 30-31k
Fire Mage - 30-31k
Destruction Warlock - 26k
Assassination Rogue - 25k
Unholy DK - 22k
Enh Shaman - 19.8k
Arms Warrior - 19kish
Survival Hunter - 19k
2H Frost - 18kish
DW Frost - 17kish
TG Fury - 17k
SMF Fury - 16k
Ret Paladin - 15k

Edit: Simulcraft doesn't take into account set bonuses. Fire is at 51% haste raid buffed, 58% Fireball crit chance. Once the set bonus goes off, Fireballs are cast at 1.53 seconds, giving you 3-4 casts before you the bonus fades. There is less than a 5% chance to not get a crit for 4 straight FB casts. I'd estimate that the +12% haste bonus has a 80% uptime. In a 300 second fight, Fire can you t10 bonus twice, which comes out to at least a 4% damage increase, much more if you used in conjuction with Combustion.

 

[Splosion]

How are DKs dps wise?

edit: Unholy is simming around 22k for me, 2H Frost 18k. Bleh.

I haven't done every class spec yet, but I'll share what I've seen

MM Hunter - 30-31k
Fire Mage - 30-31k
Destruction Warlock - 26k
Assassination Rogue - 25k
Unholy DK - 22k
Enh Shaman - 19.8k
Arms Warrior - 19kish
Survival Hunter - 19k
2H Frost - 18kish
DW Frost - 17kish
TG Fury - 17k
SMF Fury - 16k
Ret Paladin - 15k

Edit: Simulcraft doesn't take into account set bonuses. Fire is at 51% haste raid buffed, 58% Fireball crit chance. Once the set bonus goes off, Fireballs are cast at 1.53 seconds, giving you 3-4 casts before you the bonus fades. There is less than a 5% chance to not get a crit for 4 straight FB casts. I'd estimate that the +12% haste bonus has a 80% uptime. In a 300 second fight, Fire can you t10 bonus twice, which comes out to at least a 4% damage increase, much more if you used in conjuction with Combustion.

Mind if I ask what you used for BiS lists for these? I simmed the BiS chardevs that I put in the BiS sticky, and ended up with all of them at 16k+ for retribution.

 

[Amaya]

I know for a fact my Ret paladin, wasn't BiS, let me see if I can dig it up.

Can you link yours and what time interval are you using?

 

[Amaya]

chardev 9 14.8k dps.

I can't get Ret to sim higher than 14.9k

 

[Splosion]

http://twinkinfo.com/80-85-bracket/26023-80-best-slots-15.html

Retribution:
I've made 3 BiS sets for retribution, and I plan to reduce this, once I've made some more simcraft tests. These three are as follows:

Mastery heavy (4pc t10): chardev 9

Fairly standard, capping hit & expertise first, then going mastery>crit=haste for weights.

Haste softcap (4pc t10): chardev 9

Given the amount of haste that a level 80 character can get, it's viable to try and achieve the 3sec haste cooldown, which involves a calculator: Ret Paladin 4.0.1 Haste Softcap Calculator. My ms is 31, so the cap was 931 haste, which I have achieved in this set. However, it costs you 4 mastery points (not rating) to do it, which actually ends up in slightly less dps (according to simcraft)

Mastery heavy (2pc t10 only): chardev 9

I've run some simcrafts using the sets I posted, and the set falkor linked also.

Here are the results:

4pc mastery heavy: 16092 dps
4pc haste softcap: 16029.3 dps
2pc mastery heavy: 16175.3 dps
falkor's cata mastery: 14156.2 dps

That's my reasoning. I was using 540sec as a time interval on those I think, but it doesn't change much if I drop it to 350 (280-450 averaged). Haste isn't at all weak for retribution (they're worth about the same dps, even at 85), so I'd say that's part of the problem, along with the dragonling being plain awful.

Oh, and the expertise cap for retribution is 16 (we can glyph for the rest)

 

[Kipale]

All these threads makes me want to come back on 80s

ps. didn't see anything about lock, i remembe pulling pretty nice numbers on my lock, behind mages ofc, on short fights mastery stacking demo is really nice, destro is better for longer fights.

 

[Amaya]

http://twinkinfo.com/80-85-bracket/26023-80-best-slots-15.html





That's my reasoning. I was using 540sec as a time interval on those I think, but it doesn't change much if I drop it to 350 (280-450 averaged). Haste isn't at all weak for retribution (they're worth about the same dps, even at 85), so I'd say that's part of the problem, along with the dragonling being plain awful.

Oh, and the expertise cap for retribution is 16 (we can glyph for the rest)

Your build sims for only 14.6k for me.

I don't think the rotation is right.

Adjusting some stuff brings it up to 15.4k.

Edit: It's not prioritizing right for haste builds. Haste Ret should play like Fury Warriors CS_Filler_CS_Filler except for when you get DP procs and can do multiple TVs.

Just using CS off of cooldown and TV /w 3 procs should net 16k DPS ignoring melee, judgement, and Filler damage.

 

[Splosion]

Your build sims for only 14.6k for me.

I don't think the rotation is right.

Adjusting some stuff brings it up to 15.4k.

Edit: It's not prioritizing right for haste builds. Haste Ret should play like Fury Warriors CS_Filler_CS_Filler except for when you get DP procs and can do multiple TVs.

Just using CS off of cooldown and TV /w 3 procs should net 16k DPS ignoring melee, judgement, and Filler damage.

Simcraft should already do this. the highest dps is casting CS on cooldown no matter what (even counting DP procs), so extra haste shouldn't change anything, only reducing the number of fillers being used (even if it means waiting). I'm not sure why your simcraft figures are so different to mine though, what settings are you using?

 

[Amaya]

Full buffs, 1000 iterations, 500 seconds, 20% fight variance, no movement.

I managed to get your BiS one up to 16.7k Have to remove references to Inquisition and GoAK, otherwise it won't use Zealotry. Switched Consecration to use when over 4000 mana.

Edit: 81 Cata Geared (ICC chest and RS boots) Arms Warriors leap up to 23k DPS.

CS is about a 20% increase.

I think Fury is going to be insane in comparison to other classes when 5.0 hits IF the item squash doesn't maul our secondary stats. Enrage is going to proc off criticals and Fury can easily sit around 40% crit 25-30 mastery. If it's possible to get near 100% up time on Enrage, Fury should have close to a constant 35% damage buff. That + Deep Wounds should bring them on par with other classes (except hunters and mages)

 

[Splosion]

Full buffs, 1000 iterations, 500 seconds, 20% fight variance, no movement.

I managed to get your BiS one up to 16.7k Have to remove references to Inquisition and GoAK, otherwise it won't use Zealotry. Switched Consecration to use when over 4000 mana.

That's how I managed it. Although in honesty, there isn't a lot of point in using consecration at all, just because in most cases it causes you to oom -> lost dps later.

 

[Amaya]

How do I get simcraft to use hemo only to keep buff up and backstab otherwise?

Backstab yields 18887 damage per execute at an 86% crit rate. Basically 3570 energy for 100 backstabs. 529 Damage per energy
Hemo yields 14311 damage per execute at a 85.9% crit rate. 493 Damage per energy.

Sub sims for 22.7k doing hemo spam

 

[Falkor]

Edit: 81 Cata Geared (ICC chest and RS boots) Arms Warriors leap up to 23k DPS.

if youre hit capped without RS boots redsteel should be an upgrade due to itemization and the fact they can take cata enchants. at least in theory
and are you testing with 2 or 4pc 277 tier or are you using all cata gear. the bonuses are pretty strong since all warrior dmg is physical (2pc) and 4pc buffs all damage again.

That's how I managed it. Although in honesty, there isn't a lot of point in using consecration at all, just because in most cases it causes you to oom -> lost dps later.

you should be fine using consecration smartly. anytime you can use it w/o going oom it should be a dps increase, and with replenishment and such its not too hard, use divine plea if youre in a tight spot

 

[Splosion]

if youre hit capped without RS boots redsteel should be an upgrade due to itemization and the fact they can take cata enchants. at least in theory
and are you testing with 2 or 4pc 277 tier or are you using all cata gear. the bonuses are pretty strong since all warrior dmg is physical (2pc) and 4pc buffs all damage again.

Redsteel boots are ilevel 289. You need ilevel 300+ for cata enchants. Plus the RS boots have WAAAAY higher strength itemisation than anything (the entire instance dropped extremely strong gear).

Edit: Or they're ilevel 316 and require level 81. Not really useful at all.

you should be fine using consecration smartly. anytime you can use it w/o going oom it should be a dps increase, and with replenishment and such its not too hard, use divine plea if youre in a tight spot

Ofc you should, but unfortunately it does such low damage per cast it's almost not worth it (plus if you have to plea later you lose a gcd, which likely ends up being lost dps.

 

[Amaya]

@Falkor, it was just Cata gear. 4/5 277 sims for 22.7k reforging for hit>exp>crit>mastery (hit and exp capped ofc)

 

[Splosion]

@Falkor, it was just Cata gear. 4/5 277 sims for 22.7k reforging for hit>exp>crit>mastery (hit and exp capped ofc)

Did you tell it to account for the set bonuses? Simcraft doesn't do that natively, simply because it's outdated gear. You can fairly easily account for it by just multiplying the end result (*1.05 for 2pc, and 1.05 for 4pc respectively, because warriors deal all physical damage)

 

[Aelobin]

Simcraft doesn't do that natively, simply because it's outdated gear.

Working on it \o/

 

[Amaya]

Then I guess it would climb up to 25k...if the bonuses are multiplicative.

Everything procced + full buffs (including potion) = 20930 Attack Power as Unholy.

Formula for strike damage is ((AP/14)*3.3)+Weapon Damage right?

That gives me 22660 Scourge Strike pre armor (/w t10 2 piece bonus). Assuming 25% Armor Reduction.

Comes out to 20229 Shadow Damage and 16995 Physical Damage.

Simcraft is showing 13.2k Shadow Damage and 12158 Damage.

Surely 270 Strength from Shadowmourne and the 10% increase from t10 2 piece don't make that big of a difference? Figuring those bonuses in only bring SS up a 13.67k crit, roughly a 12% increase.

 

[Falkor]

You need ilevel 300+ for cata enchants

waaaaa, you do!?

Edit: Or they're ilevel 316 and require level 81. Not really useful at all.

or they're 81 and he said he sim'd a lvl 81 using the RS boots. but if he could maintain hit cap w/o the halion boots....well you know the rest (in theory)

Ofc you should, but unfortunately it does such low damage per cast it's almost not worth it (plus if you have to plea later you lose a gcd, which likely ends up being lost dps.

yes it does low damage per cast, but its a dps increase using it vs not, and it's not that hard avoiding going oom. every time i use the dummy i do 5-10min tests and keeping replen up, + using plea when i absolutely have to, keeps me from going oom. speaking of plea, you can use it when CS, judgement, or anything else is on CD and then using that gcd wont hurt you

 

[Splosion]

waaaaa, you do!?

Indeed you do.

or they're 81 and he said he sim'd a lvl 81 using the RS boots. but if he could maintain hit cap w/o the halion boots....well you know the rest (in theory)

I hadn't seen that he went for level 81. Question is, how useful is the extra secondary stats vs small str increase? (small, but still there, something like 21 str (170 vs 145 + 20 + 20 + 6)

yes it does low damage per cast, but its a dps increase using it vs not, and it's not that hard avoiding going oom. every time i use the dummy i do 5-10min tests and keeping replen up, + using plea when i absolutely have to, keeps me from going oom. speaking of plea, you can use it when CS, judgement, or anything else is on CD and then using that gcd wont hurt you

There was a post on this a while back on the MMO-C forums, and the OP provided some math that said it ended up being a (albeit minor) dps loss. Plea can be used in an empty gcd, but given the levels of haste on wotlk gear, those free gcds aren't all that common (CS cooldown will be way below 4sec, closer to 3.5sec or less with the haste). However, the premise of using cons if you have >4k mana is reasonable, It's just not that great.