Best class for pve twinking 91-99 bracket (dps/Tank)

[Dreawyn]

Heya,

I have recently gotten back into twinking and seeing as 90 twinks don't really seem to be a "thing" as of now I am starting to question if I should drop some of my gold and make a level 91 twink instead (after reading about 91 being possibly the best option for pve only twinks).

So the question is which class currently performs the best (in terms of damage output / survivability if a tank). I saw the video by soulspec some while ago doing crazy damage as a warlock, but not sure if that is a thing anymore.

Any help/input on the subject would be appreciated .

Any class is a possibility by the way, only class lacking the cloak is a rogue. Cheers.

 

[DeLindsay]

I can't say for sure about 91 but at 99 my Shaman in Elemental spec can reach almost 40K DPS ST on Bosses (I've pulled 32K on Kazzak without full buffs, a Bodyguard or Artillery Strike) and AOE I'm getting close to 60K DPS. To put that into perspective that's more than my 685 geared Hunter and Mage (at 681). Those numbers are best of situations mind you, but I can easily sustain over 20K ST and 30K AOE. Tanking I'd say DK, but that's personal opinion. Once I get her the Mythic 4set from SoO her DPS will rise even higher

 

[Dreawyn]

I can't say for sure about 91 but at 99 my Shaman in Elemental spec can reach almost 40K DPS ST on Bosses (I've pulled 32K on Kazzak without full buffs, a Bodyguard or Artillery Strike) and AOE I'm getting close to 60K DPS. To put that into perspective that's more than my 685 geared Hunter and Mage (at 681). Those numbers are best of situations mind you, but I can easily sustain over 20K ST and 30K AOE. Tanking I'd say DK, but that's personal opinion. Once I get her the Mythic 4set from SoO her DPS will rise even higher

Thanks for the input! Sadly elemental is probably one of my least liked classes, probably along with affliction/spriest. Though if no serious contender comes up I will go with the shaman, though would like to know if they are better at 91 than 99 and also if any class comes even close, cheers either way.

Yeah DKs are good especially if you plan to solo old content, though at 100 I'd say my favorite tank is a monk despite probably not having adequate skill to play it to fullest

 

[DeLindsay]

I can tell you that a Feral Druid played correctly will beat my Shaman in DPS for ST on Bosses (at 99 I know for sure). A Hunter can out burst my Shaman but only for a very short duration because it takes me time to ramp up the damage (and it's proc dependent) but once I get going there's few that can beat me. I've even beaten level 100's with equal gear to me (I'm 645 equipped so far at 99, think I can attain 648-650 given enough time for the Warforged drops). As for AOE, I haven't found any Class that can beat my Shaman if the mobs last long enough.

The main issue you'll face with 91 vs 99 is that 91's don't get all the "Improved" abilities that 98-99's do. Whether or not that's a DPS loss or a Tank mitigation loss (due to stat scaling) I can't say.

 

[Dreawyn]

I can tell you that a Feral Druid played correctly will beat my Shaman in DPS for ST on Bosses (at 99 I know for sure). A Hunter can out burst my Shaman but only for a very short duration because it takes me time to ramp up the damage (and it's proc dependent) but once I get going there's few that can beat me. I've even beaten level 100's with equal gear to me (I'm 645 equipped so far at 99, think I can attain 648-650 given enough time for the Warforged drops). As for AOE, I haven't found any Class that can beat my Shaman if the mobs last long enough.

The main issue you'll face with 91 vs 99 is that 91's don't get all the "Improved" abilities that 98-99's do. Whether or not that's a DPS loss or a Tank mitigation loss (due to stat scaling) I can't say.

One should think enhancement comes pretty close, but then again scales with SP and not with weapon damage so suppose that's a legit point.

From what I have read the scaling difference is pretty big from 91-99 (meaning that 91s get way more secondaries), though I could be wrong.

Suppose more input on the matter is needed, but if none can be found I suppose I'll try the shaman or death knight if they are a viable option for tanking (dps OS ofc).

Oh and on the feral matter, way harder to execute their rotation perfectly than an elemental shamans, so suppose elemental is the better choice especially during a messy fight. Thanks again.

 

[MyPerfection]

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

I wrote so much and then i pressed "back" by accident and all is gone -.-

Very Short Version
Blood / DW-Frost should be able to solo the most. Next to Balance / Guardian Druid and Affliction Warlock, Brewmaster / Windwalker Monk. DPS-wise caster scale better than melees.

I haven't simmed any 91 since 6.2 yet. So it's more a guess than a fact. In 6.1 Soulspec simmed at ~51500dps as demo and 44500dps as Affli. But that was with 4/6, not 6/6 and before the affli-buffs. I am leveling an affli right now and ... why not. I will sim a 91 BiS-Lock today and post the results here later on. And maybe I'll find some other classes on the armory to sim for comparison reasons. So that you have an overview of now.

*edit

Patchwerk Fight:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/stormreaver/Soulspec/advanced
Soulspec_Active : 65605 dps - Affliction /w Sandman 700, not 715
Multi 1.32 - Mastery - 1.31 - Haste 1.27 - Versa 1.16 - Int 1.00 - Crit 0.88 - SP 0.78

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/aerie-peak/Runétic/advanced
Runétic_Active : 30872 dps - 2H Frost DK /w only Stone of Wind and 685 Legs, no Legendaries
Wdps 1.80 - Haste - 1.26 - Multi 1.08 - Versa 1.03 - Str 1.00 - Mastery 0.78 - Crit 0.78 - AP 0.69

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/stormreaver/Evospec/advanced
Evospec_Active : 61337 dps - Fire Mage, fully upgraded, no legendaries
Multi - 2.08 - Haste 1.79 - Mastery 1.60 - Versa 1.27 - Int 1.00 - SP 0.91 - Crit 0.23

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/shattered-halls/Chickens/advanced
Chickens_Active : 23683 dps - Retribution, only 4/6, no legendaries
Wdps 1.47 - Multi 1.13 - Str 1.00 - Haste 0.99 - Crit 0.92 - AP 0.89 - Versa 0.80 - Mastery 0.78

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/outland/Mila/advanced
Mila_Active : 35145 dps - Shadow, only 4/6
Multi 1.38 - Versa 1.09 - Int 1.00 - Mastery 0.98 - SP 0.94 - Haste 0.83 - Crit 0.80

 

[Dreawyn]

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

I wrote so much and then i pressed "back" by accident and all is gone -.-

Very Short Version
Blood / DW-Frost should be able to solo the most. Next to Balance / Guardian Druid and Affliction Warlock, Brewmaster / Windwalker Monk. DPS-wise caster scale better than melees.

I haven't simmed any 91 since 6.2 yet. So it's more a guess than a fact. In 6.1 Soulspec simmed at ~51500dps as demo and 44500dps as Affli. But that was with 4/6, not 6/6 and before the affli-buffs. I am leveling an affli right now and ... why not. I will sim a 91 BiS-Lock today and post the results here later on. And maybe I'll find some other classes on the armory to sim for comparison reasons. So that you have an overview of now.

*edit

Patchwerk Fight:
Soulspec @ Stormreaver - Community - World of Warcraft
Soulspec_Active : 65605 dps - Affliction /w Sandman 700, not 715
Multi 1.32 - Mastery - 1.31 - Haste 1.27 - Versa 1.16 - Int 1.00 - Crit 0.88 - SP 0.78

Runétic @ Aerie Peak - Community - World of Warcraft
Runétic_Active : 30872 dps - 2H Frost DK /w only Stone of Wind and 685 Legs, no Legendaries
Wdps 1.80 - Haste - 1.26 - Multi 1.08 - Versa 1.03 - Str 1.00 - Mastery 0.78 - Crit 0.78 - AP 0.69

Evospec @ Stormreaver - Community - World of Warcraft
Evospec_Active : 61337 dps - Fire Mage, fully upgraded, no legendaries
Multi - 2.08 - Haste 1.79 - Mastery 1.60 - Versa 1.27 - Int 1.00 - SP 0.91 - Crit 0.23

Chickens @ Shattered Halls - Community - World of Warcraft
Chickens_Active : 23683 dps - Retribution, only 4/6, no legendaries
Wdps 1.47 - Multi 1.13 - Str 1.00 - Haste 0.99 - Crit 0.92 - AP 0.89 - Versa 0.80 - Mastery 0.78

Mila @ Outland - Community - World of Warcraft
Mila_Active : 35145 dps - Shadow, only 4/6
Multi 1.38 - Versa 1.09 - Int 1.00 - Mastery 0.98 - SP 0.94 - Haste 0.83 - Crit 0.80

Thanks for all the information you provided! Seems like casters are doing better (despite the melees not having all the gear, though.) and from that most appealing currently seems like a shadow priest / fire mage, even if the priest is way behind both fire/affliction on single target. It'd be nice to get some WW sims in, but suppose I'll do that myself.. if I can, some changes supposedly would have to be made to ram in proper calculations for 91s. Thanks a lot though, this helped !

 

[DeLindsay]

MyPerfection, those are great sims but how are new 91/99's suppose to get all that Mythic SoO (and many of those Warforged) when there are so few groups running it anymore? I've even offered to pay 10K+ gold per drop and have almost non-existent responses. To further that, if the Character one is looking to Twink 91/99 doesn't have the Cloak they can never get it (thanks to Blizz removing the quest chain to spite those who didn't stick around in that awful xpac). To that end, without all that BiS SoO gear + Legendary Cloak 91's aren't going to do anywhere near the damage the sim shows. 99's, although we have poorer secondary stat scaling, have access to ~30 iLvL higher equipped average gear which gives us much higher AP/SP. I too am wanting 4pc SoO Mythic for my 99 Shaman and it will certainly increase her DPS even at an iLvL loss but my numbers without all that shiny SoO gear + Legendary Cloak are close to what that Sim shows those 91's, and my numbers are on a 100 World Boss as well as the highest level Dungeon one can enter at 99.

TL;DR: Great Sim post that shows 91's have great secondary stat scaling but it only really matters if you already have the Legendary Cloak and BiS SoO gear from when it was current, as finding groups for it now are slim. Some 99's can put out numbers close to that on AT LEVEL enemies without even remotely BiS gear. **** my gear on my Shammy would garner the response "GG n00b, try harder at getting real gear" from the hard cores out there and my DPS is already impressive.

 

[DeLindsay]

[MENTION=21167]Dreawyn[/MENTION] I looked again at some of those 91 toon's stats and compared them to my 99 Shaman (since she's a Caster it's a reasonable comparison). I actually have higher secondary stats than Evospec that shows 61K DPS on the Sim as well as over 10% more Armor and almost double the Health plus loads more Spell Power and I'm not even done with my gear. I don't however have any SoO set pcs yet so I'm at a DPS loss there. The SPriest/Lock Mastery values are just wow I'll admit. The Lock Soulspec I'd wager would give my 99 Shaman a serious run in the DPS department with the exception that at 99 I would do slightly more DPS against a level 90 Raid Boss than a 91 would due to being over leveled so it'd be hard to test side by side. As an example, in ICC 25m Heroic I can hit 1 million DPS ST blowing all CD's because I'm vastly over leveled for that content.

 

[MyPerfection]

You don't need the legendaries to be competitive, they got nerfed for all toons above level 90. I will create a "normal 91" soon aka prideful gear with 3 warlords crafted, so you can compare their scaling and everyone can farm this gar in a couple of days.

[MENTION=21167]Dreawyn[/MENTION]The Lock Soulspec I'd wager would give my 99 Shaman a serious run in the DPS department with the exception that at 99 I would do slightly more DPS against a level 90 Raid Boss than a 91 would due to being over leveled so it'd be hard to test side by side.

You can compare it 1to1 'cause the legacy buff is not active in Pandaria and Draenor. A Pandaria-Raid-Boss is Level 94 for a 91 Toon and Level 102 for your 99 shaman. There is zero difference dpswise if you are 90, 94, 97 and so on.

If you wanna know more about the Legacy Buff, i wrote some stuff about it on the german forum:
[M-M-Monsterschaden] Der Legacy Buff und du. - Foren - World of Warcraft

 

[MyPerfection]

I've just used an inactive toon of mine to show you something:

559 Fire Mage, no set, no nothing:
Myblink @ Frostwolf - Community - World of Warcraft
Myblink_Active : 18858 dps

Then I switched the warlords crafted 1/6 pieces with 6/6 and instead of sandman, i've used stone of elements:
Myblink_Active : 37346 dps
*bam 100% dps increase*

And if i would have the prideful set, only both bonuses increase my dmg by around 9%. And i would already be above 40k dps. Then meta, all other slots at least 550 and more gems ...

 

[Dreawyn]

I've just used an inactive toon of mine to show you something:

559 Fire Mage, no set, no nothing:
Myblink @ Frostwolf - Community - World of Warcraft
Myblink_Active : 18858 dps

Then I switched the warlords crafted 1/6 pieces with 6/6 and instead of sandman, i've used stone of elements:
Myblink_Active : 37346 dps
*bam 100% dps increase*

And if i would have the prideful set, only both bonuses increase my dmg by around 9%. And i would already be above 40k dps. Then meta, all other slots at least 550 and more gems ...

Thanks for this, and for both of your inputs. It looks like you don't even need that high gear if you just can invest the money /time to get the 6/6 stage epics, and even then as I stated earlier all my 90s (apart for the rogue) carry the cloak. Sure, not SoO mythic gear, but even then I am sure that will come with investment of either time or money.

Do you happen to know if any melee comes even close to the damage of casters?

 

[MyPerfection]

o you happen to know if any melee comes even close to the damage of casters?

I don't think so but normally you can compare the endgame ratios with 91 twinks. And if this works than sub-rogues and 2h-furys should be strong. Next weekend i will create some 91 prideful toons for different specs, all with 3pc 6/6 and see what we get.

 

[Dreawyn]

I don't think so but normally you can compare the endgame ratios with 91 twinks. And if this works than sub-rogues and 2h-furys should be strong. Next weekend i will create some 91 prideful toons for different specs, all with 3pc 6/6 and see what we get.

Sounds good, if you don't mind please post some sims or whatever results you get over here It'll make my job of picking between a few classes easier, warrior sounding like a solid option for one. What's your hunch on if you should have 2x crafted weapon as fury or not?

 

[DeLindsay]

[MENTION=18179]MyPerfection[/MENTION] thanks for that link, I'll check it out. Also it won't let me 'Like' your post for some reason but I do

 

[Dreawyn]

Made a 91 monk just to try as I got plenty of felbloods and things alike.



Safraekel @ Argent Dawn - Community - World of Warcraft - Stone of Elements, 5/6 weapon , 4/6 chest. No tier set bonus, legendary cloak. Tank meta. No SoO gear. Missing enchants even.

Safraekel_Active : 20908 dps

Just for in case someone is interested.

 

[v Excise]

Dreawyn - I'm actually soulspec and evospec. From my experience you will get a lot more dps out of any caster, as others have stated, simple because of how much better they scale with secondary stats, warlock and mage in particular. Also, if you do happen to have the legendary cloak on either the mage or warlock, I 100% recommend making one of those over any other class. The sims linked earlier are of a longer fight as well, most fights in SoO last about 1-2 minutes, which my warlock sims at 92k. To put this damage into perspective, my 91 warlock bursts 200-300k dps as affliction, single target, fully buffed. My 718 ilvl main mage, only bursts that high with great rng. I am 10/13m and really geared for a lvl 100, and still dont even beat the 91 on bosses in SoO. The fire mage, who doesn't even have the legendary cloak, and can burst ~150k single target and up to 500k (max I've seen on Shamans in SoO) aoe. Proof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA5-nvqupYM
Keep in mind, none of this damage is with the legacy damage buff from doing older instances, and MoP is not yet included in that.

As for getting the mythic SoO gear, I find getting into pugs rather difficult, even though I will do double the dps of anyone else in the group, simply because people see 91, and don't understand how strong they actually are, as well as people just being stupid. It's usually these people that will do ~20k on bosses in there, even though people did 35k+ at 90 in 6.0. For all these reasons, I find it much easier to make my own groups, and tell people that some of the cloth gear will be reserved. This is, of course, because I have ran the instance at least 50 times on mythic/old heroic, and know all the mechanics, and explain them well.

Also, any 91 pve twinks on US-Horde interested in M SoO runs, or just want to talk about 91s, feel free to add me @ vExcise#1875. I try to run SoO weekly, but have been slacking lately.

 

[Dreawyn]

Dreawyn - I'm actually soulspec and evospec. From my experience you will get a lot more dps out of any caster, as others have stated, simple because of how much better they scale with secondary stats, warlock and mage in particular. Also, if you do happen to have the legendary cloak on either the mage or warlock, I 100% recommend making one of those over any other class. The sims linked earlier are of a longer fight as well, most fights in SoO last about 1-2 minutes, which my warlock sims at 92k. To put this damage into perspective, my 91 warlock bursts 200-300k dps as affliction, single target, fully buffed. My 718 ilvl main mage, only bursts that high with great rng. I am 10/13m and really geared for a lvl 100, and still dont even beat the 91 on bosses in SoO. The fire mage, who doesn't even have the legendary cloak, and can burst ~150k single target and up to 500k (max I've seen on Shamans in SoO) aoe. Proof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA5-nvqupYM
Keep in mind, none of this damage is with the legacy damage buff from doing older instances, and MoP is not yet included in that.

As for getting the mythic SoO gear, I find getting into pugs rather difficult, even though I will do double the dps of anyone else in the group, simply because people see 91, and don't understand how strong they actually are, as well as people just being stupid. It's usually these people that will do ~20k on bosses in there, even though people did 35k+ at 90 in 6.0. For all these reasons, I find it much easier to make my own groups, and tell people that some of the cloth gear will be reserved. This is, of course, because I have ran the instance at least 50 times on mythic/old heroic, and know all the mechanics, and explain them well.

Also, any 91 pve twinks on US-Horde interested in M SoO runs, or just want to talk about 91s, feel free to add me @ vExcise#1875. I try to run SoO weekly, but have been slacking lately.

Awesome post and video, thanks for the insight on the twinks. I do appreciate it! I got a short question though, if I should go warlock is affliction the only viable spec for damage or do destruction/demonology even come close :/? Thanks again

 

[v Excise]

Awesome post and video, thanks for the insight on the twinks. I do appreciate it! I got a short question though, if I should go warlock is affliction the only viable spec for damage or do destruction/demonology even come close :/? Thanks again

Affliction is the best, however demo comes close on extremely short fights because of how strong the terrorguard is for it, especially when stacking mastery. It's also better in mass aoe encounters. Destruction does not come close, however. I do also find affliction fun to play at 91 because of how fast everything is. I have around 55% haste so everything just ticks so fast.

 

[Dreawyn]

Affliction is the best, however demo comes close on extremely short fights because of how strong the terrorguard is for it, especially when stacking mastery. It's also better in mass aoe encounters. Destruction does not come close, however. I do also find affliction fun to play at 91 because of how fast everything is. I have around 55% haste so everything just ticks so fast.

Sounds good, do you have any idea how Spriests fare in the 91 scenario with a cloak + fully upgraded gear?