Assassination rogues?

Here are my conclusions on combat and sub, and why i chose sub



Combat - I personally use this for instances (low wsg pops on my battlegroup). It has good damage for multiple opponants on a low cooldown and the energy regen is great. Also the in crease healing is pretty good when i end up taking a lot of damage and i dont get heals. I don't use it in pvp because it jsut isnt bursty enough and i end up having a hard time staying on top of anybody.



Sub - I spec sub for a lot of reasons for pvp. Not just the zomg 1 shot shadow step ambush deal though that is some amazing damage. The tree has a lot more to offer than just that 1 trick pony. The increased agi from the spec give me more AP/crit than the other trees so even if caught out of stealth i can go toe to toe with most other melee classes and come out on top. Also I have had quite a bit of success using Shadow Step defensively if I end up having to carry the flag for a while before a FC shows up. It is a nice way to get range on most classes by targeting somebody that is at a distance, then shadow step and do a quick 180. It gives a good run speed boost as well that doesn't require blowing my sprint.
 
I tried sub and mut, sub offers mobility, mut may be more consistent but it lacks mobility. Also most classes can 1-2 shot rogues out of stealth anyway, no matter the spec.
 
if ur rogue gets 2 shotted outta stealth thats... well failure as a twink, even in full AP gear I never got 2 shotted by another 19.

I'm really mad I can't keep my SFs if I wanna go either sub or ass (its cool to abbreviate assassination as ass right? r we mature enough for that? i know im not but im hoping u guys are :p ) well sh*t i dk if i wanna come back looking at all the changes for cata, they rly dont do much harm but they made a lot of the old work I had put into my rogue pointless... even this patch is a kick in the nuts
 
@ blueisbetterthanyou



I honestly don't have trouble staying on my target at all as Assassination, for the following reasons:

--> Quickening for one is a free minor speed increase

--> Sprint is now changed, and useable once per minute for 8seconds. For my playstyle at least, once a minute is more then enough.



I might go subtlety should Ambush get nerfed, I am at home with the spec.. alas, I get sick of being told one crutches on the opener with it. So I don't use it for now.. but I have found mutilate to my liking.
 
Volsci said:
@ blueisbetterthanyou



I honestly don't have trouble staying on my target at all as Assassination, for the following reasons:

--> Quickening for one is a free minor speed increase

--> Sprint is now changed, and useable once per minute for 8seconds. For my playstyle at least, once a minute is more then enough.



I might go subtlety should Ambush get nerfed, I am at home with the spec.. alas, I get sick of being told one crutches on the opener with it. So I don't use it for now.. but I have found mutilate to my liking.
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probably because pugs r different than premades, u dont have a mage or two and a hunter chain slowing you(not that sub will help you too much but w/e)



also just assuming ur pugging b/c if a premade cant keep a rogue off of a target then w/e grats on free win i suppose.
 
Crilicilyn said:
if ur rogue gets 2 shotted outta stealth thats... well failure as a twink, even in full AP gear I never got 2 shotted by another 19.

I'm really mad I can't keep my SFs if I wanna go either sub or ass (its cool to abbreviate assassination as ass right? r we mature enough for that? i know im not but im hoping u guys are :p ) well sh*t i dk if i wanna come back looking at all the changes for cata, they rly dont do much harm but they made a lot of the old work I had put into my rogue pointless... even this patch is a kick in the nuts
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i play sub with swords usually. sometimes i swap to dagger for backstab play.





sword sub is nice. you get the big opener and then follow it up with ss/evis. throw 15 agi on your shadowfangs and have at it.
 
Crilicilyn said:
if ur rogue gets 2 shotted outta stealth thats... well failure as a twink, even in full AP gear I never got 2 shotted by another 19.

I'm really mad I can't keep my SFs if I wanna go either sub or ass (its cool to abbreviate assassination as ass right? r we mature enough for that? i know im not but im hoping u guys are :p ) well sh*t i dk if i wanna come back looking at all the changes for cata, they rly dont do much harm but they made a lot of the old work I had put into my rogue pointless... even this patch is a kick in the nuts
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From what I understand you have not been playing for a while so you would not understand that rogues were not the only class to enjoy a damage increase.



Affliction locks kill quite easily with Unstable affliction now available at 10 along with corruption and Bain of Agony. they tick for a pretty good amount and rogues don't have a way to dispel them.



frost Mages deal a lot of damage a well with frost bolts that hit like a truck with a short cast time.



I am running with around 1300 health on my sub rogue and if I am out of stealth, even non twinks can take me out within 5 seconds if there are 2 or more casters on me that have a couple of BOA's.



Personally I still think its rock paper scissors the roles have just switched around and people can't grasp/come to terms with that.





Rogues might deal a lot of burst in openers but it isn't consistent. Where as hunters, mages, and warlocks can deal a ton of damage not as much in bursts but far more consistent.
 
Seriously, the problem with rogues isnt the amount of dmg really. Its the way its delivered. Its practically unavoidable and it comes in one huge burst. Your right yes, out of stealth many classes to more dmg than rogues, but the thing is rogues can pretty much always pick the fight they want to fight, they dont need to fight out of stealth unless they choose to, which isnt case with rest of us. I can crit 800 with my attacks on a clothie, but I cant control when my procs are up and I get that crit and also if the clothie let me near him he already failed and earned to get hit. The case with rogues is theres no way to avoid getting ambushed and the ambush pretty much always does enough dmg to win you the fight already, what dmg they do after that is usually irrelevant. The rogue attacks the dmg comes before the target can react it, unlike when I or a hunter or a lock does it.
 
Theme said:
Seriously, the problem with rogues isnt the amount of dmg really. Its the way its delivered. Its practically unavoidable and it comes in one huge burst. Your right yes, out of stealth many classes to more dmg than rogues, but the thing is rogues can pretty much always pick the fight they want to fight, they dont need to fight out of stealth unless they choose to, which isnt case with rest of us. I can crit 800 with my attacks on a clothie, but I cant control when my procs are up and I get that crit and also if the clothie let me near him he already failed and earned to get hit. The case with rogues is theres no way to avoid getting ambushed and the ambush pretty much always does enough dmg to win you the fight already, what dmg they do after that is usually irrelevant. The rogue attacks the dmg comes before the target can react it, unlike when I or a hunter or a lock does it.
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Then that means this whole issue with rogues is based on 1 on 1 fights. I can't count the the amount of times Blizz has stated that WoW is not balanced around 1 on 1. Thats why arenas were created as 2 on 2 minimum. There are literally thousands of posts on the fact that it is not balanced in 1 on 1.



Same thing happened in BC with locks at 70. They could kill anything but a rogue. Anything else could kill a rogue.



Same thing happened with 19 twink hunters for all of wrath. Nothing could kill them, period. There still wasn't this much protest about them. I was just a given.





For a warrior I can see how a player can react. There are options there.



But Warlock? what run away and hope you can eat/get to a hut before dots kill you?

Hunter? Run away because they will kite you?



Is this cry of outrage because the Status quo changes so much? The class that used to be such a joke has now become viable so people are upset?



Yea rogues have burst, thats there deal. Burst and stuns, since we have no stuns at 19 we needed more burst.



Still seems like a sig from one of the posters here sums it up best



"rock is fine nerf scissors,

paper"
 
It applies to arena too the initial burst is unavoidable. In bgs, they can pick the fight they want, they dont need to do anything but 1v1 if they dont like.



Problem isnt you couldnt kill a rogue, problem is they can kill you without you being able to prevent it. You really cant compare it to situation of hunters, there always was a way to counter hunters and they really were never that op outside of wsg midfield.



And firstly, dmg from hunter and especially from lock is alot easier to heal. in 2v2 2 rogues ambush you and your dead, theres absolutely nothing you can do about it.



I cant really believe your claiming that rogues atm are fine, it has nothing to do with rock-paper-scissors there is no counter to rogues atm apart from holy paladin, which is another ridiculously op class atm.



Rogues have always had more than enough dmg in this bracket. Their real problem has always been lack of snare and mobility, now with shadowstep they have atleast some mobility. They do not need nor they should have ability to one or 2 shot anyone, nobody does.
 
Problem isnt you couldnt kill a rogue, problem is they can kill you without you being able to prevent it. You really cant compare it to situation of hunters, there always was a way to counter hunters and they really were never that op outside of wsg midfield.
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uhhh pretty much every class has some ability to prevent a rogue from shitting on them. ambush will only come close to 1 shotting if they use shs which is their only good gap closer or if they have berserking



wehwehweh im a retard that enjoys duels/2v2/pugs and i get raped by a gang of rogues



also holy fucking shit rofl @ the bolded part



i guess thats why people always put a hunter on defense once they realized how good they were at that and thats why people started to run multiple hunter offense.(hint: because they were better than every other dps class)
 
Yes they were better than the rest, but never actually as op as rogues now for example, and that counter is called line of sight btw, also hunters were/are even squishier than rogues when you catch em. I do also remember most premades Ive been in/against running multiple rogues. And that was when rogues were so very underpowered.
 
and that counter is non existent in 99% of wsg the only way to los really well is to sit in 1 spot which is just as bad and no1 good really ran 2 rogues so w/e
 
Yeah you see thats why I said that they were not that op outside of wsg midfield. I like way you argument tho.
 
Theme said:
Yeah you see thats why I said that they were not that op outside of wsg midfield. I like way you argument tho.
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uh what? im saying theres hardly any los anywhere in wsg not just in midfield.



also the best strat is to just camp gy/control mid so you shouldnt even be running around their base too much unless ur team is shit.
 
Theres no los in wsg bases? Do we play on same map? And I dont know what kind of premades youve been playing, but I dont really see how you could gy camp if teams are anywhere near same level. From my experience, theres lots of running around base.
 
I've been playing my rogue twink for a long time and I think we were best b4 the very 1st dodge nerf :p

When have we not had high dps outside of stealth? Some ppl honestly havent been twinking tht long it seems, rogues didnt switch to stealthy mcsubtelty until WoTLK screwed around w/ twinking. Hunters havent been tht nerfed, they got buffed in Wotlk and r now back to the way they used to be, which if u had played the class previously b4 LK u wouldn't feel to bad about.
 
Crilicilyn said:
I've been playing my rogue twink for a long time and I think we were best b4 the very 1st dodge nerf :p

When have we not had high dps outside of stealth? Some ppl honestly havent been twinking tht long it seems, rogues didnt switch to stealthy mcsubtelty until WoTLK screwed around w/ twinking...
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We get like, poisons starting from level 10, mutilate, bladefury or shadowstep, so yeah, agreed.



I am a mutilate rogue, the reason why i specced assasination, is because you get mutilate starting on level 10, i dont go subilty because that spec is missing the camouflage talent for improved stealth i think, i dont know if subilty is good nowheredys, but, i mean, we get mutilate now on level 19, so what i thought was, ambush = 2 combopoints, mutilate = 2 combopoints, 4 combopoints total = nice for a 4 combopoint eviscirate if the damage is outhealed.
 
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