Assassination rogues?

Volsci

Legend
I am out of a computer for the time being, so I am just looking for some opinions.



Hypothetically, I see an amount of positives to rolling assassination.



One- one point in quickening (2nd tier ability) gives you +8% movement speed, therefore you have options for your boot enchants, instead of auto minor speed.

---> If you grab the +5 hit rating, in coordination with two AB's, you are now hitcapped at 11.

----->Therefore, you can further complete the defias/fang set.. or go for 5/5 defias set. You also have two free ring slots, not having to use Simple Pearl Ring to make the cap.

*I am not positive as to how BoA's factor into this, I do not use them. I noticed they have changed.. perhaps they are still BiS*

---> Or you can get +7 agi/sta for more survivability, if you are using other means of accomplishing the hit cap.



Two- You get +50% chance to proc instant poison, in coordination to mutilate this could proc close to each cast for more damage.

---> Plus, if anyone played a level 80 rogue for pvp, and followed the vast majority of people, you are relatively familiar with mutilate play/movement style.



Three- Quickening also gives +10% healing affects on you, which means you get an extra +20 hp per bandage tick (assuming you are capped)

---> every little bit of hp helps, how many times have you lost a duel or 1vX by mere points of hp?

---> Not to mention that it helps all around, an extra 30-60? points each heal adds up.



Four- If you cap Coup de Grace, you get +20% damage on eviscerate. If you cap Lethality, your crit backstabs/SS/mutilate's get +30% damage.. which is not too shabby.

--->Evi is really a rogue's only finisher in this bracket, so any amount it can be boosted by helps.

------> If you are using mutilate, you have two daggers, and Assassin's Resolve gives +20 energy, your opener gives +4 combo points. After that, you get 150% more combo points then sinister strike alone.

--->I do not know the current damage on abilities, but +30% crit damage is always nice. Not to mention that there are rather high crit %'s in this bracket.



Five- If you don't get Quickening, your 2nd tier point would probably go to Blackjack. This causes 35% damage reduction of a target affected by sap after it wears off.

---> This is really nice for all the ShS rogues.. and generally burstyness. Having 1/3 damage shaved off in a close turtle/midfield situation could be pivotal. Especially when that could be 200-300 damage points less off of a ShS>ambush to the fc.



Six- People won't flame at you for playing such an OP class/spec as much, since you can't flat out oneshot them off of an opener.

---> Though no real beneficial value, things like this do get to your nerves after awhile.



Anyway, I have to go for now.. may edit it some later.

Cheers,

Volsci
 
finnally!! this is what im doing on my rogue! i have a 80 mut rogue and love him. also it seems like sub rogues have nothing amazing if they dont start the fight in stealth. (say they kill someone but another person comes along.)
 
Yea, I went MUT also, its alot of fun and im loving it. You can get some nice burst out of stealth with MUTx2 and EVI. And talented I have hit a 800 EVI with 5 Combo points. Cheers to all the rogues that dont go with the FoTM spec. :]
 
dude leik wut r u talkin about you can shadowstep when ur sub its leik so op broham u r a nub if you dont roll sub go roll sub bro
 
my rogue is specced Mut.

Mutialte is really strong. Average Mut crit is 300-350 each weapon, and i have seen some 400+

A potential of 2(400) x 2 = 1600 damage w/o poisons or melee with your 120 energy.

Better out of stealth dps too.
 
Murk said:
my rogue is specced Mut.

Mutialte is really strong. Average Mut crit is 300-350 each weapon, and i have seen some 400+

A potential of 2(400) x 2 = 1600 damage w/o poisons or melee with your 120 energy.

Better out of stealth dps too.



this man speaks wise words
 
Hows that holding up in PvP? Honestly I didn't know we got the 3 little things on the summary page when we specced so I just went combat (hey its got really nice stats) lol. I don't know how I'd feel using my AB again, I don't have 2 and I already have 2 SF's. These changes are too drastic imo, or maybe its just cuz i havent logged into WoW since may lol.
 
Murk said:
my rogue is specced Mut.

Mutialte is really strong. Average Mut crit is 300-350 each weapon, and i have seen some 400+

A potential of 2(400) x 2 = 1600 damage w/o poisons or melee with your 120 energy.

Better out of stealth dps too.



I tried mut out the first day of the patch, buffed out the wazoo, and never hit that much once.

Your calculations are so totally, completely, utterly, incorrect and off to boot. You need to use a totaling (Sum of Squares w/ an X mean) equation to get a correct answer for the highest possible and lowest damage output for mut. I did the calcs and based of my stats (which are very good) I can expect to see crits of 320-640 for one, and 470-830 if I use two mutilate attacks. 1600 is unattainable, even in the most optimal conditions (fully buffed, highest top-end damage for both weapons and both attacks, even with Ony buff).

Mutilate is an awful choice for a rogue in the 19-bracket. It's got no mobility, the damage from poisons is less-than favorable, and it consumes too much energy. Another reason why mutilate is also worthless is because you don't have a DoT/ applied poison. Assassination spec is meant for rogues that have access to the poisons that apply a debuff to the character you're attacking so 20% more dmg can be used.



Right now I crit for ~1.1k as an average ambush on my rogue with shadow step (w/ 95% ambush crit chance). It costs 60 energy. I hit 300 non-crit 2 point evis, 450-520 crit evis w/ 2 points. It costs 35 energy.



Makes no sense for me to waste 120 energy for 470-830 damage for two mutilates (at optimal conditions), while instead I can throw down 1,500 damage for 95 energy and still have some left.



Mutilate is a shit build for rogues in 19, only viable spec is sub, and it's going to stay that way well into cata.

I have no idea why people are trying to reason out other specs that are, well, retarded.

Dumb rogues, stop putting bad/incorrect knowledge/ WRONG calculations/ stupidity into the heads of the players that don't know who to reason math. This game is based off math, learn how to do it, so I don't have to for you.



-Natlieportmn, 19 Rogue
 
Fernald said:
Mutilate is a shit build for rogues in 19, only viable spec is sub, and it's going to stay that way well into cata.

I have no idea why people are trying to reason out other specs that are, well, retarded.

Dumb rogues, stop putting bad/incorrect knowledge/ WRONG calculations/ stupidity into the heads of the players that don't know who to reason math. This game is based off math, learn how to do it, so I don't have to for you.



-Natlieportmn, 19 Rogue



I think you missed the point of this thread boss.



A lot of players out there play world of warcraft for the sheer enjoyment of doing what they want to do. Not everyone nerds it up by number crunching the maximum possible damage output and then spending excessive time and effort to squeeze 4 more attack power into your already over built toon.



The guys in this thread simply wanted to talk about playing mutilate, possibly even about trying to make mutilate viable. Nowhere in this thread did anyone say mutilate was top dog in the 19 rogue world, nor did they say they cared.



Seriously, if you're going to nitpick about miscalculations, do so in the proper thread. Or post your armory, so we can ask you why you don't have an enchant on your bracers, or comment about how nice those green tinted goggles look, or possibly we could question why you decided to roll with the 2.8 speed boa bow for the 1 hit instead of the throat piercers for faster bandage breaking.



Seriously bro, you don't impress anyone with your 'calculations'. Post some spreadsheets.
 
Fernald said:
I tried mut out the first day of the patch, buffed out the wazoo, and never hit that much once.

Your calculations are so totally, completely, utterly, incorrect and off to boot. You need to use a totaling (Sum of Squares w/ an X mean) equation to get a correct answer for the highest possible and lowest damage output for mut. I did the calcs and based of my stats (which are very good) I can expect to see crits of 320-640 for one, and 470-830 if I use two mutilate attacks. 1600 is unattainable, even in the most optimal conditions (fully buffed, highest top-end damage for both weapons and both attacks, even with Ony buff).

Mutilate is an awful choice for a rogue in the 19-bracket. It's got no mobility, the damage from poisons is less-than favorable, and it consumes too much energy. Another reason why mutilate is also worthless is because you don't have a DoT/ applied poison. Assassination spec is meant for rogues that have access to the poisons that apply a debuff to the character you're attacking so 20% more dmg can be used.



Right now I crit for ~1.1k as an average ambush on my rogue with shadow step (w/ 95% ambush crit chance). It costs 60 energy. I hit 300 non-crit 2 point evis, 450-520 crit evis w/ 2 points. It costs 35 energy.



Makes no sense for me to waste 120 energy for 470-830 damage for two mutilates (at optimal conditions), while instead I can throw down 1,500 damage for 95 energy and still have some left.



Mutilate is a shit build for rogues in 19, only viable spec is sub, and it's going to stay that way well into cata.

I have no idea why people are trying to reason out other specs that are, well, retarded.

Dumb rogues, stop putting bad/incorrect knowledge/ WRONG calculations/ stupidity into the heads of the players that don't know who to reason math. This game is based off math, learn how to do it, so I don't have to for you.



-Natlieportmn, 19 Rogue



Ever try having sex?
 
Fernald said:
I tried mut out the first day of the patch, buffed out the wazoo, and never hit that much once.

Your calculations are so totally, completely, utterly, incorrect and off to boot. You need to use a totaling (Sum of Squares w/ an X mean) equation to get a correct answer for the highest possible and lowest damage output for mut. I did the calcs and based of my stats (which are very good) I can expect to see crits of 320-640 for one, and 470-830 if I use two mutilate attacks. 1600 is unattainable, even in the most optimal conditions (fully buffed, highest top-end damage for both weapons and both attacks, even with Ony buff).

Mutilate is an awful choice for a rogue in the 19-bracket. It's got no mobility, the damage from poisons is less-than favorable, and it consumes too much energy. Another reason why mutilate is also worthless is because you don't have a DoT/ applied poison. Assassination spec is meant for rogues that have access to the poisons that apply a debuff to the character you're attacking so 20% more dmg can be used.



Right now I crit for ~1.1k as an average ambush on my rogue with shadow step (w/ 95% ambush crit chance). It costs 60 energy. I hit 300 non-crit 2 point evis, 450-520 crit evis w/ 2 points. It costs 35 energy.



Makes no sense for me to waste 120 energy for 470-830 damage for two mutilates (at optimal conditions), while instead I can throw down 1,500 damage for 95 energy and still have some left.



Mutilate is a shit build for rogues in 19, only viable spec is sub, and it's going to stay that way well into cata.

I have no idea why people are trying to reason out other specs that are, well, retarded.

Dumb rogues, stop putting bad/incorrect knowledge/ WRONG calculations/ stupidity into the heads of the players that don't know who to reason math. This game is based off math, learn how to do it, so I don't have to for you.



-Natlieportmn, 19 Rogue
Optimal conditions is also having a FC with 2x debuff and you with zerker. And i know you can get up to 1600 with mut in that situation. Please learn your shit before you act like a douche on the internet. Also, if somone likes MUT let them play mut, ass. People should spec in the way thats the most fun for them. And if you are going SUB just to one shot people and be OP then you are a bad rogue, though I think we all knew that based off your play in WSG.
 
Well.... everyone's just seemed to completely forget crilly just cuz I've been on a break for 5 months roughly.... Anyone wanna make a comparison as to something useful, not just ur potential zomg mutilate numbers? From what I've read 19 rogues have become like 39 dagger rogues used to be, can ur models keep up in a mosh pit? How does that setup play up against RvR? I dc what damage u do against FC's I was soloing shammy and druid FC's when rogues were considered one of the most underpowered 19's stoned off my ass.... as usual I guess. Anyways, my point being:



-----Which spec you like best and why?----
 
@Crilicilyn



I honestly like Assassination the best.



My reasons for not choosing the others:

--Combat--

--> honestly, I might go with it later.. there was just nothing shiny/new ;)

--> Needs minor speed on boots

--> I tried it on my 80 and just wasn't fond of it



---subtlety--

--> I often end up in 1vX situations and I feel this spec is weaker in longer fights

--> I played it till I stopped at 49 before bg exp.. and am dreadfully bored of one shotting people

--> this has been my primary spec since vanilla and I wanted a change



Why I choose Assassination:



--> Quickening gives +8% movement speed, so I can get hit rating on boots

----> I don't have BoA's, so this opens up gear for me

--> I find the damage dependable, and it is easy to get into a groove of offense/defense based on your energy regen.. I can just lay out fights easier.

--> for ME, it is actually very energy conserving



---> I never really played this spec at all, and so I can try it out now.. and it fits my gear restrictions/options.



I do nerd out with wow, but it is how I play regardless of stature among specs.

--> gives me something to think about while on a run.



**I would be interested with hearing someone's opinions on why they prefer sub/combat? Over other specs as well.. a critic's corner might be cool here.**
 
Fernald said:
I tried mut out the first day of the patch, buffed out the wazoo, and never hit that much once.

Your calculations are so totally, completely, utterly, incorrect and off to boot. You need to use a totaling (Sum of Squares w/ an X mean) equation to get a correct answer for the highest possible and lowest damage output for mut. I did the calcs and based of my stats (which are very good) I can expect to see crits of 320-640 for one, and 470-830 if I use two mutilate attacks. 1600 is unattainable, even in the most optimal conditions (fully buffed, highest top-end damage for both weapons and both attacks, even with Ony buff).

Mutilate is an awful choice for a rogue in the 19-bracket. It's got no mobility, the damage from poisons is less-than favorable, and it consumes too much energy. Another reason why mutilate is also worthless is because you don't have a DoT/ applied poison. Assassination spec is meant for rogues that have access to the poisons that apply a debuff to the character you're attacking so 20% more dmg can be used.



Right now I crit for ~1.1k as an average ambush on my rogue with shadow step (w/ 95% ambush crit chance). It costs 60 energy. I hit 300 non-crit 2 point evis, 450-520 crit evis w/ 2 points. It costs 35 energy.



Makes no sense for me to waste 120 energy for 470-830 damage for two mutilates (at optimal conditions), while instead I can throw down 1,500 damage for 95 energy and still have some left.



Mutilate is a shit build for rogues in 19, only viable spec is sub, and it's going to stay that way well into cata.

I have no idea why people are trying to reason out other specs that are, well, retarded.

Dumb rogues, stop putting bad/incorrect knowledge/ WRONG calculations/ stupidity into the heads of the players that don't know who to reason math. This game is based off math, learn how to do it, so I don't have to for you.



-Natlieportmn, 19 Rogue



cause mut spec def makes me think of mentally disabled people
 
I took combat cuz, well i didnt know we even got the talent summaries ( i didnt even know we had access to poisons or anything that happened in the last 5months). I havent bg tested, im stuck on a laptop cuz im still undecided if i fully wanna come back and really install this POS laggy pre-expac game lol. Combat spec does bring absolutely nothing new to the game honestly. I may give mut a spin, but if ppl are right and what ive seen is true about the nerf to my beloved SF's i'm finally done w/ twinking.
 
Crilicilyn said:
I took combat cuz, well i didnt know we even got the talent summaries ( i didnt even know we had access to poisons or anything that happened in the last 5months). I havent bg tested, im stuck on a laptop cuz im still undecided if i fully wanna come back and really install this POS laggy pre-expac game lol. Combat spec does bring absolutely nothing new to the game honestly. I may give mut a spin, but if ppl are right and what ive seen is true about the nerf to my beloved SF's i'm finally done w/ twinking.

[video=youtube;Hn-enjcgV1o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn-enjcgV1o[/video]
 
Volsci said:
@Crilicilyn



--> I find the damage dependable, and it is easy to get into a groove of offense/defense based on your energy regen.. I can just lay out fights easier.

**
I particularly agree with you on this part. I like the pacing of MUT quite a bit.
 

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