Arms Warr: Sword vs. Axe

Rexgal

OG
Im just finishing up my 49 warrior and i notice the majority of the warriors are axe spec. Im currently axe spec but i also am wanting to try swords. I notice the sword selection are not as nice but currently i have stoneslayer and am basically wondering why no sword warrs. Im not sure on how offten the proc occurs in the spec to make it comparable, but additional information or suggestions would be appreciated.
 
Sword spec is viable, but the weapon selection isn't as good. All the swords are pretty much inferior to the axes you can get.



Sword spec does proc nicely, but I think that a static 5% crit is better.
 
Sword spec is 5%. Thus, having axe spec; 5% crit (that hits for double, = to an extra attack) AND 5% crit dmg is better.



Sword spec will increase the ppm of any proc weapon enchant you have tho. Assuming you have Crusader, you should see around a 3% increase in uptime, averaging to around 3 static strength. Not enough to make the build viable.



Mace spec is an interesting option tho, and I've seen some warriors use it to great effectiveness; Most especially during the 100% MS crit juggernat patch o_O
 
Now im not a "pro" warrior ( yet :p ) but it seems that ppl are basing this upon the lose in static crit and the choice in weapons. But to say if i tried to get the best of both worlds in swords, what do u guys think of this.



Warrior - Talents - Thottbot: World of Warcraft



I'll still lose a 3% crit rather than 5% and some xtra stuff in the Arms tree...would the the 2% crit in fury tree be worth anything lost in the arms tree or is this spec junk. >.<



Also if anyone has any other spec ideas to make the lose of crit minimal and not lose key arms talents and still keep swords, plz post.
 
Darzk, I'm confused.



Sword spec:



U hit Random for 1000

Sword Spec procs and U hit Random for 1000
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is equal to



Poleaxe spec:



U crit Random for 2000
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But



U crit Random for 2000

Sword spec procs and u crit random for 2000
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or



U hit Random for 1000

Sword spec procs and u crit random for 2000
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or



U crit Random for 2000

Sword spec procs and u hit random for 1000
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are better than



U crit Random for 2000
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I guess u lose the Deep Impact but other than that, what else?
 
True, I seem to have forgotten the additonal attacks from sword spec can crit. However;

+5% dmg to OP crits, 75% of the time = ~+7.5% dmg to op

+5% dmg to MS crits, 50% of the time = +5% dmg to MS



Okay. We hit for 1k. Crit 25% of the time. Sword spec hits 5% of the time, axe gets additional 5% crit and 5% cirt dmg.



Avg sword spec hit; 1000*1.25*1.2 + 0.05*1000*1.25*1.2 = 1500+75 = 1575 dmg

Avg Axe spec hit; 1000*1.3*1.2*1.05 = 1638 dmg



Interesting. Axe spec should give you bigger numbers, but sword spec would deal out additional smaller numbers, and should theroretically be close in dmg done. Axe spec is superior, however, to sword spec because of talent increased chances to crit on abilities like MS and OP.



*Edit* and for the math geeks out there, yes that maths not perfect, but it should be really close.**
 
While u're at it, can u please do the math for mace spec. Rockpounder and Ragehammer are 2 great maces, Rockpounder would ease the loss of crit but I don't know about the "up to" 15% ArP.



Use 3k armor for the average shaman/hunter.
 
There was an orc warr in my BG named Skullbone ([char=Gurubashi]Skullbone[/char]) that was sword spec with stoneslayer. The man was a beast, he was tons of fun to play against and watching the ridiculous amount of damage output as well as checking it in my combat log at times definitely makes me believe in the viability of sword spec arms @49. That being said it still remains true that unfortunately there are no good swords in this bracket that are decent for usage other than Stoneslayer and possibly the heirloom sword.
 
i kinda skimmed most of these posts, but just lemme toss my 2cents out there.

sword spec is viable. however it has a low proc chance, can now longer chain proc, AND the biggest thing is the second attack can be dodged, missed, parried, glanced, etc. not to mention you might kill the person, then have a worthless proc.

i prefer my static 5% crit, & 5% crit damage bonus (225% crit damage bonus with impale and axe spec, meaning you hit for 1k, you crit for 2.25 x that, instead of 2x = 2k, small but it adds up).



all of this on top of the fact that axes (BoA, exe. cleaver, etc) are better than swords and maces imo. now dont get me wrong, i have a stoneslayer, ragehammer, and rockpounder on my warrior. i just prefer my axes and i always have; i was axe spec with kang in vanilla.



so you have an inferior spec (imo) with inferior weapons (also imo). viable, check. fun, sure. best, undecided. try it out, have fun, report back!



as for mace. with out the stun it seems kinda meh. passive 10% of battle stance + the talents could be fun, but i doubt it outweighs either axe or sword in the long run. again, test it and report back!!! especially since armor pen. was reworked, afaik, so clothies arent hit as hard...something about it scaling differnt, i have no idea tbh.
 
Mace spec: -15% armor.

If you have 40% reduction from armor noramlly, a warrior with mace spec will hit you as if you had around 34% armor.



Axe spec swing .7(1000*.6 [hit]) + 0.3(1000*.6*2.2*1.05[crit]) = 420 + 415 = 835

Mace spec swing .75(1000*.66 [hit]) + 0.25(1000*.66*2.2[crit) = 495 + 363 = 858



So very similar damage, obviously leading up to more damage against heavier armored targets.



Less crits means less DW/Traumas if specced for bleeds; crits from axes will still provide 5% larger numbers from spec alone, so you OP and MS damage goes up from axe spec.



Axe is still king, IMO.



Also, in regards to sword spec, as Falkor rightly mentioned, Sword spec wont proc from misses, but also can be missed/parried/dodged itself, while the critical damage is always there.
 
man, do you imagine getting just enough arena points to get the 2h mace and then log on the next day and they had changed "chance to stun" to this armor reduction crap? lol. man I would be pisssssed.
 
Magrim said:
man, do you imagine getting just enough arena points to get the 2h mace and then log on the next day and they had changed "chance to stun" to this armor reduction crap? lol. man I would be pisssssed.
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hah well it was pretty well know change for a while, but yea i suppose i'd be a lil peeved.



dark, can u do math for having the passive 10% armor pen. in battle too? since thats where i spend 99% of the time as an arms warrior, and prolly very similar for other warriors too. might tip the scale a bit towards mace, but they again BoA axe is better than any mace available imo..and cleaver, etc is close if you cant get BoAs.



also didnt they change the armor pen formula so clothies wouldnt be at such a disadvantage? idk i thought i remembered something about that...
 
Thx for input on swords vs axes, i think my primary spec will be axe's but i'll give swords a whirl. 50g max respecs are 15 mins worth of dailies now so no biggie. Im trying a "different" axe spec outside the "norm" arms warr spec. Tell me what you guys think. He's my link:

[char=Terenas]Cptncrunch[/char]



I really like my crit and will be experimenting with Fungal armor which will put me @ 26-27% crit and when i find an execution cleaver i'll be replacing my kangs to keep my ap close to the same.
 
The armor pen from mace spec stacks additively from the armor pen in battle stance, so you'd see the same armor reduction. All it means is that a player with 3000 armor is mathematically treated as a player with 2700 armor;



That is, instead of 40% reduction normally, lets say that they have 42%, and the battle stance pen brings it down to 40%.



If you were wondering Battle vs Zerker stance, Zerker is still better dps output, unless your opponent has like 60% reduction.
 
If you really love crit, consider pieces with crit rating, rather than agility. They'll give bigger crit %'s per item point than agi...



For example, the dragonscale chest and gloves. Or the raging xerker helm from SM.



@Rexgal:

Bloomsprout compared to Embrace of the Lycan is very close, but I prefer Lycan. If I feel I need more armor I toss on a Sunscale.

[item]Big Bad Pauldrons[/item] > Wyrmslayer

+12 str > 24 ap to bracers



Get hit capped. Either through a flashlight, a Blackstone ring, a gloves enchant, an Executioner's Cleaver etc.



Im not a fan of Kang personally, but its by no means bad. My personal opinion is that Executioner's is better.
 
Ya, your right Big bad pauldrons > wyrmslayer...and i'll get embrace of the lycan for an ap set since it drops off the same boss as the pauldrons. Call me noob, but does str add crit or some other stat, how is 12 st > 24 ap?
 
strength adds nothing for a warrior but a) block value, where 1 strength = .5 block

and b) attack power, where 1 strength = 2 AP. there fore 12 strength = 24...but strength scales with kings, so its 12 x 1.1 = what 25 AP? anyways, its just plain better.



Code:
lycan vs. bloomsprout. i'd much rather have the +2 sta, and 10 agi (and hey 131 armor dosent hurt) over 12 AP difference, unbuffed.

nothing wrong with lycan, it's good. and should be a lot easier to get, unless you're lucky in mara. however i would take 20hp and 10agil over 12 ap anyday.



also unless wyrmslayers are rare/expensive on ur sever, go with them. same sta/strength, but 'slayers have the armor edge (yea i know what your thinking...who cares about ac. but with that mindset soon you'll be in leather or cloth and armor mitigation does matter folks, dont sacrifice it all!). the only difference is 8 agi vs 8 crit, and i'd take the raw stat to add dodge, crit, and armor all while scaling with things such as kings whereas 8 crit will always be 8 crit no matter how much you want. 8 crit @ 49 is .72 crit...decent, but 8 agil isnt that bad either, dont know off the top of my head, but its not bad. it all adds up in the end!
 
strength adds to block, +stats are slightly better now because all paladins have BoK.
 
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