A returning twinks observations

Blinken

Legend
Hi all, I've recently returned to twinking, having decided to leave it behind at the end of TBC, and I've decided to share some of my thoughts with you guys as to the balance and issues I've found with this bracket. Please bare in mind I'm EU, and cannot comment on the issues of the US bracket.



First things first, I'm going to get the generic and commonplace rant out of the way. Damage is either way too high or way too low on certain classes. Hunters and rogues being prime candidates for these accusations. Hunters do far too much damage, not unmanageable but enough to tip the scales when you consider their battlefield control and their numerous layers of defence. On top of this, certain classes are far too gimped to be viable in this bracket. This leads to a huge "fotm" factor for the bracket, and you can guarantee at least half of both of the teams will consist of rogues and hunters. This is almost a given in each game, and gets mighty boring.



The second thing I'd like to bring to light is the balance between Alliance and Horde. Personally, I've always felt that Alliance have been given the better racials, but that is just personal preference and I won't go into that too much. As far as I can see, there is no clear winning side on EU, with it going close to 50% win ratio on either side. I like this, as much as it pains me to say, because nobody likes rolling the enemy team within 5 minutes. It's not uncommon for the games to last close to 20 minutes, with both teams playing hard for that last point. I cannot fault the Faction balance on EU.



My third point is the seemingly poor design of the Warsong Gulch map and certain classes interactions. We are all very aware of the awful Line of Sight issues with this map and how range classes dominate centre map due to melee not being able to use LoS. This just further bolsters the Hunters already impressive repertoire, with their insane range, if a Hunter sets his sights on you, and you don't have a healer nearby, you can consider yourself dead. A simple way of balancing this bracket and this map is to solidify scenery and cause it to LoS. As an avid arena player, it's so painful to run behind a tree or big stump only for your opponent to keep dumping on you.



My fourth is concerning grandfathered items and the difference in items that factions can obtain. Personally I believe that Blizzard should either remove GF'd items or offer a different, but still similar alternative to the item. Grandfathered items just give old twinks a greater advantage over newer twinks, an advantage that is wholly unnecessary. I and many others enjoy playing on an equal playing field and this can be difficult when people are running with 2-300 more HP than you just because they have certain items that you cannot possibly obtain, or they have 30-40 more AP. I know a lot of you won't agree with me, simply because most of you have these items I'm referring to, and I ask you. Why should someone have such an advantage over other players simply because they made their characters a year or two ahead of them? In my opinion they should not, but feel free to tell me why you disagree.



On top of this already unfair advantage that older players have, there is a significant disparity in the quest items that Horde and Alliance players can obtain. Now I know people will call 'BLASPHEMY!' and mention the word homogenization, but I personally feel that Horde and Alliance should be able to obtain the same items as their counterparts without having to Faction change. Some people don't have the disposable income to throw around $60 or whatever it is for two faction changes every time they want to make a new twink. Paying the subscription fee is painful enough, without having to spunk money on changing factions just to nab the ring or the wrists that are essential to complete your character.



Other than this and that which I am forgetting to mention, I'm having a wonderful time on my new twinks and am enjoying all of my battles with you guys.



Regards!
 
People still twink?

Most twinks got out while twinking was still respectable (imo), TBC and possibly wotlk.

I understand if people twink for the social side, i.e friends play it, but if your doing it because you think its fun then your doing it wrong!

OR if your phonebook and cba to get cata -.-
 
examinerEU said:
People still twink?

Most twinks got out while twinking was still respectable (imo), TBC and possibly wotlk.

I understand if people twink for the social side, i.e friends play it, but if your doing it because you think its fun then your doing it wrong!

OR if your phonebook and cba to get cata -.-



I've always enjoyed twinking, and I'm not enjoying raiding or arenas any more on my DK main, so I decided to give it another try. On top of this, there is a new twink guild on my server with around 20 active 19 twinks, as well as 3 of my friends making a twink to queue with me. So yeah, I guess people are still twinking.
 
I Agree with a lot of your observations Blinken however I have a few issues with your post as well.



Rogues damage is extremely gear dependent, and without the right gear rogues are weak. Its hard to be "FOTM" when 2 of the items are now going for 50k g each



I think grandfathered gear is OK. You ask "Why should someone have such an advantage over other players simply because they made their characters a year or two ahead of them? " My answer is because they made the character a year or two ahead of them. it might not have been difficult to get the gear at the time, but i guarantee you that two years ago it was a lot more difficult to make a twink than it is now. Gold is more plentiful now, leveling is a joke, and low levels do more damage than they used to. Give credit to the people who put in the work to get BIS when BIS meant something.



as far as the faction changing thing, that is why we are called twinks. we go out and do these ridiculousness things just to get the best gear available for our class and bracket. The game wasn't intended or designed for us to faction change for gear, but we do it anyway. Otherwise it wouldn't be twinking it would just be XP off
 
yougotcriton said:
I Agree with a lot of your observations Blinken however I have a few issues with your post as well.



Rogues damage is extremely gear dependent, and without the right gear rogues are weak. Its hard to be "FOTM" when 2 of the items are now going for 50k g each



I think grandfathered gear is OK. You ask "Why should someone have such an advantage over other players simply because they made their characters a year or two ahead of them? " My answer is because they made the character a year or two ahead of them. it might not have been difficult to get the gear at the time, but i guarantee you that two years ago it was a lot more difficult to make a twink than it is now. Gold is more plentiful now, leveling is a joke, and low levels do more damage than they used to. Give credit to the people who put in the work to get BIS when BIS meant something.



as far as the faction changing thing, that is why we are called twinks. we go out and do these ridiculousness things just to get the best gear available for our class and bracket. The game wasn't intended or designed for us to faction change for gear, but we do it anyway. Otherwise it wouldn't be twinking it would just be XP off



Thanks for the reply mate.



Rogues aren't as gear dependent as most rogues would mate it out as. I built a tester rogue with near BiS that took me 2 hours to assemble and 2x Skeletal Club & honor dagger for ambushing, and I was still putting out crazy numbers on my priest friend. Granted, they use the most sought after and expensive twink BoE out there, but even without them they are putting out insane pressure and have good survivability on top of that.



As for the GF gear, that is your personal opinion and I fully appreciate it, although I would like to point out that levelling has always been a joke and in fact twinking may be even less gold dependent than it once was, what with most of our gear being BoP now, only spunking gold on the occasional boost, enchants and a few BoEs that are required. I've actually got a BiS warrior that I've retired that has almost every GF'd item that he can use, so I'm not just being a cynical asshole. I just like the idea of a level playing field.



Regarding your third point, I guess you're right on that one, but I still would prefer it if people would be able to be BiS without shelling out crazy amounts of money just to do so. This is coming from someone who has just left school, going to University so I personally don't have such disposable income and it's gunna be hard for me to make new twinks BiS.



Regards.
 
Their range is fine, it's just the fact that you can't LoS them and quite often they have distance closers which just makes the situation worse.
 
Agree - LOS stumps in WSG and other features.



And - would like to see a bigger dead zone on hunters (like in pre - BC)



Disagree - GF items. People that have played a long time and worked hard to collect such items (or just have been lucky enough to hold onto them) should not be penalized.
 
What GF items are we talking about? You're making it sound like there's a ton that are BIS or have no comparable options.



The only ones I really use are Deadskull Shield and Jutebraid Gloves.



A lot of people don't even run with Deadskull preferring something with int., crit, or hit. There's a ton of alternatives to Jutebraid and it's only a sizeable upgrade to clothies who already got a gimped choice of armor.



In other brackets, such as 10-14, the GF gear is way more powerful, but I don't know of any in 15-19 besides those BiS Pally Legs that only 1 or 2 people have.



I think it should sorta be like Highlander where you gain power over time, adding to the story and challenge.
 
I can't beleive people QQ'ing over GF items. I remember when i made my twink. It was back in '06. I had never played a rogue before, and my main has always had a sizeable amount of gold (10k or so in BC is a lot, if anyone remembers) and i had to buy two Shadowfangs for 100g gold each. I didnt like the price, but whatever to be the best. I remember hunting down BoEs, because there were not as many available as there are now. I remember enchanting my gear, getting nethercleft leg armor, and paying large sums of gold to gear out my twink. Waiting a week or two on one item being available, and putting in the time to research the best way to get the quest items i need before i hit level 19. Once 19, i had to WALK not fly my main's 2 person mount to the Silverwing Hold and que directly from there. I remember farming Eluding rings for my friends and i and remember the 5 hour WSG games i was apart of where a FC could hide in the bushes (flags didnt show up on map way back when). If you are going to take things away from people that worked 10x harder than you to achieve what they have, then there is no reason to ever twink. If it means spending 20k on a shadowfang so be it, i have had my shadowfangs for 6 years, and they are still BiS.
 
Tonkks said:
I can't beleive people QQ'ing over GF items. I remember when i made my twink. It was back in '06. I had never played a rogue before, and my main has always had a sizeable amount of gold (10k or so in BC is a lot, if anyone remembers) and i had to buy two Shadowfangs for 100g gold each. I didnt like the price, but whatever to be the best. I remember hunting down BoEs, because there were not as many available as there are now. I remember enchanting my gear, getting nethercleft leg armor, and paying large sums of gold to gear out my twink. Waiting a week or two on one item being available, and putting in the time to research the best way to get the quest items i need before i hit level 19. Once 19, i had to WALK not fly my main's 2 person mount to the Silverwing Hold and que directly from there. I remember farming Eluding rings for my friends and i and remember the 5 hour WSG games i was apart of where a FC could hide in the bushes (flags didnt show up on map way back when). If you are going to take things away from people that worked 10x harder than you to achieve what they have, then there is no reason to ever twink. If it means spending 20k on a shadowfang so be it, i have had my shadowfangs for 6 years, and they are still BiS.



Cool sob story, this thread isn't here for nostalgia or reminiscing, nor is your post on topic or about GF'd items which your first sentence would imply. We've all done what you've spoke about here. Please stick to the matter in hand.
 
The hard work doesn't have anything to do with GF'd items.



If you had to do all that just to get the GF'd item then sure, keep it. But the OP is just referring to these 1-2 quests that were removed that effect several specs and gear choices.
 
I agree Midfield can be a little hard to los people in, but there are jumps midfield. Theres actually a few i regularly use. You can run up a stump and run around it to heal up, and in my case i restealth. Though it is a lot harder for other classes. But blizzard won't make big changes to Wsg.
 
Dutchman said:
I agree Midfield can be a little hard to los people in, but there are jumps midfield. Theres actually a few i regularly use. You can run up a stump and run around it to heal up, and in my case i restealth. Though it is a lot harder for other classes. But blizzard won't make big changes to Wsg.



You brought up another wonderful point, the jumps in WSG. This is, in my opinion, one of the saving graces of WSG. It raises the skill roof substantially and can really separate the scrubs from the good players, and I like that. Although it does mean I'm a bit of scrub since I can't use many of them yet :-(
 
Blinken said:
You brought up another wonderful point, the jumps in WSG. This is, in my opinion, one of the saving graces of WSG. It raises the skill roof substantially and can really separate the scrubs from the good players, and I like that. Although it does mean I'm a bit of scrub since I can't use many of them yet :-(



I dont consider myself a good player but i can do most jumps consistently. The only one i really have trouble with is jumping up the alliance tunnel entrance and getting up near the old graveyard :/



But aside from that, theyre very helpful and with bandages and herbalism, you should be able to los ranged and get away with full health unless theres more on you.
 
Dutchman said:
I dont consider myself a good player but i can do most jumps consistently. The only one i really have trouble with is jumping up the alliance tunnel entrance and getting up near the old graveyard :/



But aside from that, theyre very helpful and with bandages and herbalism, you should be able to los ranged and get away with full health unless theres more on you.



Maybe not, but I bet your gameplay is significantly better, when compared to when you couldn't make the jumps, right?



On a side note, somebody should make a step-by-step guide to WSG jumps !
 
Blinken said:
Maybe not, but I bet your gameplay is significantly better, when compared to when you couldn't make the jumps, right?



On a side note, somebody should make a step-by-step guide to WSG jumps !



Theres threads with videos showing all the jumps, just go to the video section. I believe Rejen made it.
 

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