CIHC
That One OG
This
A Message from the Majority of the Hardcore 19ers
- Thread starter Karmaz
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This
Sputnick
Made in EU
Why don't Shane just make a sub-section where we can deposit all the garbage? Make it the Drama section, the Laundry section, the Anarchy Section, whatever.
It's more than clear that this forum needs it. It's like an +18 section, and it will take a huge load out of the Moderator's back (Assuming you'll keep the Moderation to a minimum, like people posting nudes or other people's IRL pictures). You know that people will rant and talk crap on said section.
You'll be separating the informative, casual part of TI from the elitistic, dramaholic part of it, instead of trying to get rid of the latest. I think that separating these aspects of the forum will be beneficial for everyone involved.
It's more than clear that this forum needs it. It's like an +18 section, and it will take a huge load out of the Moderator's back (Assuming you'll keep the Moderation to a minimum, like people posting nudes or other people's IRL pictures). You know that people will rant and talk crap on said section.
You'll be separating the informative, casual part of TI from the elitistic, dramaholic part of it, instead of trying to get rid of the latest. I think that separating these aspects of the forum will be beneficial for everyone involved.
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Sputnick
Made in EU
I already tried to buy it last month, as it's parked on GoDaddy.
CIHC
That One OG
Cause this site needs to die... pwndepot died for ti now ti must die for a new site
Revolution
Pandaboys
Let's create a twink union and go on strike until our freedom of bashing each other over a forum is returned to it's previous state on the old WoW site.
Sputnick
Made in EU
Or Shane could just buy the said website and make it elitistic and dramaholic, whistle leaving TI a more casual, informative website.
I guarantee you that the costs you'll endorse for paying the domain and hosting will definitely be worth it, and you'll get plenty of ROI from it.
Sputnick
Made in EU
I don't think the competitive part has decreased by said actions, if anything it's an attempt (and a slow one) to gradually improve aliance standards. And that takes time and dedication.
Alliance is in a better state now than before I first logged, even if it's still not as good as the Horde (entirely).
Snack
Salty
I think this is the key to TI, not turning into some fascist website that shuts down everyone that disagrees with the mods.
Dorigon
Alpha and Omega
This has been suggested multiple times, and their justification for not implementing it is that they don't feel such posts/discussion should be ANYWHERE on TwinkInfo.
Drayner
Guest
Y'all should thank Shane and that other dude that bought this site from me for doing so... If I still ran this site, 19s would have already been dead with some of the poster's logic.
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funkychicken
OG
You can't say that people would of done "this" or " that" according to your or anybody else's logic and have it still be a valid statement. People aren't 100% logical because we have emotions. Human actions are irrational, so human actions can't be explained by logic. This statement is invalid
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Fiesty
washed up tink
i love 19s but its just to dumbed down now no one really has any amount of great skill anymore. making the games generally stagnate over a period of time, thus making the bracket suffer.. the games sucking all the time is why i dont play here anymore. although the overmoderation is not helping things. if you want a chance at a fun competitive bracket with potential for growth hit up 29s. cause 19s are dead
OP
OP
Karmaz
OG
I do not understand were you get this idea that everyone hates you just to hate you. Sure some people act like Youtube haters in the comment section call you and everyone else a faggot with little to no reason, but there are other who dislike what you BELIEVE IN and ENFORCE, not for who you are.
The reason they verbalize this distaste is because your beliefs have a NEGATIVE effect on them and/or the community they are a part of. Yes, there are people who just spew hatred because they are angry people in real life or are using it as a form of venting, but you really need to get your head out of your ass when you just label anything that could possibly be seen as hate when in fact it is someone explaining a commonly held objective - and sometimes even constructive - opinion.
On your first day back it wasn't just the EU players that were up in arms. They may have been the ones who actually posted but my Skype, Realid and In-Game whispers were lighting up like a thunderstorm. The majority of the community knew that this was a really bad idea, it was almost like watching a car crash in slow motion as it was happening and being completely powerless to stop it.
I believe that Shane warned that user, not because he was wrong, but because he went about it in a very immature way. Again it wasn't because that user or the idea he held was wrong, it was because that discussion got out of hand and he simply wanted to end it as I can only assume to take some stress off his back - which is totally understandable. Meanwhile I was doing the same same thing but in a more mature and professional way (that was a nice subtle way of saying you pulled rank on me btw). The one thing that you misunderstood was I didn't stop because I was threatened, I stopped because I realized that trying to persuade someone with such a dense mind would cause more harm than good. This is another reason as to why I believe you are not fit for the role.
The bracket went into a slow and declining death largely due to (although not exclusively) the over moderation on TI which played a major factor in causing this stagnation, no matter the amount of denial you wish to hold.
Of course there isn't a specific instance where we can definitively say "Oh, here is where over moderation caused 40% of the bracket to leave". It's something that took its toll over many many months paired with other factors that I listed earlier on in this discussion.
The issue is when people believe that anything that has any possible controversial contents is seen as being "disrespectful". Just because someone disagrees doesn't mean they disrespect the person's view. You have a job to do, to moderate a forum thats' lifeblood has been driven by competition since its' birth. Sometimes you have to let things slide to allow the bracket to flourish, and as unattractive as it sounds sometimes you have to be the cleanup crew even though you saw it coming.
Preemptive action is not always the best solution.
The next point makes me cringe. There have been --- MULTIPLE - MULTIPLE - MULTIPLE - I cannot emphasize this enough --- discussions that have been closed due to an argument. Whether it be because someone gets butt hurt over some small snide comment or remark or whether some white knight controversy avoiding basement dweller feels it is his duty and reason for existence to make sure the world is free from anyone saying anything other than positive thoughts. The CoC in many of these instances is just used to rationalize the closing of these threads and a means of justification.
The bragging of quitting came partially as a result of the frustration due to over moderation that came along side. This is just cause and effect coming into play.
Congratulations? So you had a small minority of the bracket who just happened to not care/want drama who continued to play got games? Gee I wonder why none of the players participated who knew of the major role of having a little drama and open conversations to aid in driving competition. Oh yeah that's right, they stop playing because their motivation went out the window bit by bit every time they tried to spark up some controversy it was closed down and/or people were infracted/banned. Honestly how is this blatant correlation such a mystery?
Why should the number of accounts you have banned even be mentioned? How is it relevant? It just seems to me like this is something you hold as some sort of twisted achievement or a symbol of how "well" you have done. To be honest that sends a sickening feeling through my body.
The major problem with the CoC is that most of the terms are so broad and open to multitudes of interpretation. On the @threads topic, I really hate the fact that you aren't allowed to post an [MENTION=18116]Top[/MENTION]ic. Just having those thread pop up in the forum gives a feel of activity being present or that the bracket is alive. It makes it feel like you are actually in a room of people and the @thread serves as a purpose of calling someone you know over so you can have a little chat. As long as it is not malicious there really shouldn't be an issue with it, it's honestly just a rule Drayner made and has been adopted but the true meaning and interpretation of what Drayner meant by it has been lost in translation through text.
I don't think Saxxon, myself or other put the blame entirely on you. You just coincidentally have become the figurehead of this "Moderation Stiff Arming" that the majority of the community is against. At the same time to say that you have had little effect on this issue would be ignorant. Yes you may have had some positive influences on the bracket but this is one of the biggest issues and negative attributes that have contributed to the decline and "death" that we at least have a little say in (compared to game balance and other factors we have very little control over).
Twink info USE TO BE a site dedicated to information about twinking but it has shifted from that to more of a community oriented site partially due to the BGForums being removed and the new ones being complete dogshit by comparison. We have to evolve with what is going on, it is important to hold to our roots and remember where we have come from but we shouldn't deny the changes just because it is not what this site used to be.
Remember that you are a Moderator, not a dictator. The community is opening up and telling you what it wants. Most of us are being reasonable, rational and professional about it. Now it is your responsibility to listen and to facilitate that to the best of your abilities.
That is all we ask.
- 19 Community
Juicie
OG
My thread I made that was about 19 twinking was just moved into "the tavern" section. Why on earth would a moderator move a thread that is specifically about 19 twinking out of the 19 section?
A lot of these people are right. The moderators on these forums are clueless. They have no real idea how to actually moderate. They just know they have the "power" to do whatever they want and that is why they move, remove, ban, etc. Straight power trips from moderators who apparently have no real interest in seeing the bracket flourish cus if they did, they wouldn't be doing this to the community.
A lot of these people are right. The moderators on these forums are clueless. They have no real idea how to actually moderate. They just know they have the "power" to do whatever they want and that is why they move, remove, ban, etc. Straight power trips from moderators who apparently have no real interest in seeing the bracket flourish cus if they did, they wouldn't be doing this to the community.
Silinrul
<3
Honestly guys, this happens each and every time we bring on new mods. What you don't see is what goes on behind the scenes. The learning process is a tough one, and myself and the veteran mods do our best to help mentor our new staff. Unfortunately, change is always met with opposition and believe it or not most mods go through a self-doubt phase. We do not allow them to publicly display how upset they are with their new public image, nor do we allow public responses to threads trying to call them out.
I will though, publicly admit that mistakes have been made by both old and new moderators over the past few months. Some harmless, but others caused a domino effect resulting in unfortunate actions on originally innocent members. I personally was devastated to see what I came back to, and spent countless hours researching and correcting things that I could. I still continue to do so despite what you may believe, because all you see is a thread being locked or a member being banned. What you fail to see is infractions being reversed and bans being undone, as well as prior infractions/bans already on a member resulting in their harsher punishments.
There are checks and balances in effect and that is where I come in, but I am only one person and can only see so much in a day. Thus if you ever feel so strongly about any actions by any of the moderators please be mature and send me a pm. Public outburst is never going to get you anything but a locked thread and a poor view on your case. If you even think for a moment that making outrageous posts accusing the VOLUNTEER staff of every possible thing you can think of is going to make me want to help you, then you are the one that needs a new outlook on things, not my staff.
All in all, inactivity of the 19 bracket has very little to do with Twink Info let alone it's staff, and saying such non-sense is just you fishing for excuses to avoid the real issues. Honestly, compared to it's history the bracket is doing well and has a very good chance of recovering. If you spent the time you have taken here insulting our staff and put it into trying to talk to people and organizing things you may be in a game right now.
Thread Closed.
If you wish to remake a thread solely about getting activity going in the 19 bracket then by all means have at it. I have instructed my moderators to be hands-off this weekend in the 15-19 forum. I will be personally and solely checking the reports (which is honestly how most things are brought to their attention so you should be looking at yourselves for that blame). But, I will NOT by any means tolerate attacks on any member of the staff who are just doing their job. Since, in the end, if they are doing something wrong then that is my fault for not mentoring them to make the correct decision. Thus, take your anger out on me and not them. I ALWAYS answer each and every pm despite contrary belief, so please bring your concerns to me privately so you can focus all of your efforts on recovery.
I will though, publicly admit that mistakes have been made by both old and new moderators over the past few months. Some harmless, but others caused a domino effect resulting in unfortunate actions on originally innocent members. I personally was devastated to see what I came back to, and spent countless hours researching and correcting things that I could. I still continue to do so despite what you may believe, because all you see is a thread being locked or a member being banned. What you fail to see is infractions being reversed and bans being undone, as well as prior infractions/bans already on a member resulting in their harsher punishments.
There are checks and balances in effect and that is where I come in, but I am only one person and can only see so much in a day. Thus if you ever feel so strongly about any actions by any of the moderators please be mature and send me a pm. Public outburst is never going to get you anything but a locked thread and a poor view on your case. If you even think for a moment that making outrageous posts accusing the VOLUNTEER staff of every possible thing you can think of is going to make me want to help you, then you are the one that needs a new outlook on things, not my staff.
All in all, inactivity of the 19 bracket has very little to do with Twink Info let alone it's staff, and saying such non-sense is just you fishing for excuses to avoid the real issues. Honestly, compared to it's history the bracket is doing well and has a very good chance of recovering. If you spent the time you have taken here insulting our staff and put it into trying to talk to people and organizing things you may be in a game right now.
Thread Closed.
If you wish to remake a thread solely about getting activity going in the 19 bracket then by all means have at it. I have instructed my moderators to be hands-off this weekend in the 15-19 forum. I will be personally and solely checking the reports (which is honestly how most things are brought to their attention so you should be looking at yourselves for that blame). But, I will NOT by any means tolerate attacks on any member of the staff who are just doing their job. Since, in the end, if they are doing something wrong then that is my fault for not mentoring them to make the correct decision. Thus, take your anger out on me and not them. I ALWAYS answer each and every pm despite contrary belief, so please bring your concerns to me privately so you can focus all of your efforts on recovery.
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