70 Destruction Warlock.
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RevoltDarkspear
Legend
warrior/healer would get destroyed by a mage/rogue team
Pretty common setups:
Mage/Priest
Rogue/Mage
Rogue/Priest
Rogue/rSham
Mage/rSham
Mage/Mage
sPriest/rSham
Any team with a healer and mage isn't going to do enough damage to kill Kipale in a random gank like most games at 70 are won. So this means Shaman has to be CC'd for let's say 10 seconds? CCing the shaman is almost impossible as Kipale has 30secondCD ranged silence, charge, shockwave(idk the range but screwed me once when playing him) and pummel(with gag order) - shaman has windshear, grounding, and tremor. The whole time shaman is pillar hugging also so to burn through all of these anti CC abilities before they reset is not going to happen as healer mage.
So you might say kill the shaman and CC Kipale? Kipale gets spammed with dispels so he has uptime so any CC landed on him will be dispelled first time. Additionally Kipale is a warrior so derp no fears every 30 seconds. So polymorph and deep freeze are the only good CCs you can land on Kipale unless for some reason he does a random Berserker rage and you can land a fear on him before it's back up. When casting polymorph on Kipale you have to remember they can interrupt you with Wind Shear, Pummel, Charge, Heroic Throw - he can also use spell reflect last second of the cast and that is of course assuming grounding totem hasn't been thrown down. Deep freeze seems to be a good choice then, instant cast 5 seconds long. Yeh it would keep Kipale shut down for 5 seconds.. But now how do you kill a rSham with no deepfreeze? Cold snap deep seems a bit risky considering Kipale's damage when combined with both their Taziks is extremely high so it's probably best to just save snap for IceBlock. Even if you did cold Snap deepfreeze on the shaman, Kipale I'm sure would then just trinket the remaining few seconds of deepfreeze and then stop the mage casts through Charge, Throw, Shockwave or something depending on position.
Any healer rogue team faces the same damage issue, plate wearer with a shield means no random ganks. Rogues will need to get a restealth and reopen on Kipale every time they want to burst so they get the armour ignoring buff. Even then the damage wouldn't do because the rogue will have to open with a cheap into a kidney otherwise Kipale is just going to turn around and shockwave the rogue(Don't think shockwave can be dodged, might be wrong), let's say it is dodgable anyway.. The only CC rogue has for shaman is blind so rogue has 8 seconds to kill a prot warrior with over 20k health in 8 seconds, assuming the shaman doesn't choose now to trinket which he probably would considering any fears from the likely priest that the rogue is playing with are useless against shaman/warrior. Other than that the rogue could try the same on the Shaman with Kipale in a blind but he will trinket immediately and peel, hey if the rogue gets lucky he might see spirit link
Rogue/Mage Sap doesn't work on warrior most of the mage's burst is going to be reflected if not a polymorph will be, if the shaman gets CC'd Wall/Laststand is available. This turtle setup isn't going to lose to mage/rogue unless Kipale is put in a full polymorph with no way out and then is put into a blind. Shaman might die then depending on whether or not he is in range for a spirit link.
Maybe on RoV some crazy shit might go down and a random gank on Kipale happens if rogue has springs mage has tazik and shaman gets poly/blinded. Still think damage wouldn't be enough though.
Mage/Mage.. This would only be threatening on Ring of Valor I think where LoS is scarce.. So Kipale can just put on the 70 frost resistance bracers he has when they see RoV or if they've been queuing into double mage, random ganks on the shaman might happen but Kipale would need to be CC'd which is going to be a task for the mages as they're going to be getting spam purged if they're not putting out good pressure.
sPriest/rSham. 45 minute game inc.
Correct me on anything I don't play warrior/shaman so this could all be garbage
Lusiana
Legend
Pretty common setups:
Mage/Priest
Rogue/Mage
Rogue/Priest
Rogue/rSham
Mage/rSham
Mage/Mage
sPriest/rSham
Any team with a healer and mage isn't going to do enough damage to kill Kipale in a random gank like most games at 70 are won. So this means Shaman has to be CC'd for let's say 10 seconds? CCing the shaman is almost impossible as Kipale has 30secondCD ranged silence, charge, shockwave(idk the range but screwed me once when playing him) and pummel(with gag order) - shaman has windshear, grounding, and tremor. The whole time shaman is pillar hugging also so to burn through all of these anti CC abilities before they reset is not going to happen as healer mage.
So you might say kill the shaman and CC Kipale? Kipale gets spammed with dispels so he has uptime so any CC landed on him will be dispelled first time. Additionally Kipale is a warrior so derp no fears every 30 seconds. So polymorph and deep freeze are the only good CCs you can land on Kipale unless for some reason he does a random Berserker rage and you can land a fear on him before it's back up. When casting polymorph on Kipale you have to remember they can interrupt you with Wind Shear, Pummel, Charge, Heroic Throw - he can also use spell reflect last second of the cast and that is of course assuming grounding totem hasn't been thrown down. Deep freeze seems to be a good choice then, instant cast 5 seconds long. Yeh it would keep Kipale shut down for 5 seconds.. But now how do you kill a rSham with no deepfreeze? Cold snap deep seems a bit risky considering Kipale's damage when combined with both their Taziks is extremely high so it's probably best to just save snap for IceBlock. Even if you did cold Snap deepfreeze on the shaman, Kipale I'm sure would then just trinket the remaining few seconds of deepfreeze and then stop the mage casts through Charge, Throw, Shockwave or something depending on position.
Any healer rogue team faces the same damage issue, plate wearer with a shield means no random ganks. Rogues will need to get a restealth and reopen on Kipale every time they want to burst so they get the armour ignoring buff. Even then the damage wouldn't do because the rogue will have to open with a cheap into a kidney otherwise Kipale is just going to turn around and shockwave the rogue(Don't think shockwave can be dodged, might be wrong), let's say it is dodgable anyway.. The only CC rogue has for shaman is blind so rogue has 8 seconds to kill a prot warrior with over 20k health in 8 seconds, assuming the shaman doesn't choose now to trinket which he probably would considering any fears from the likely priest that the rogue is playing with are useless against shaman/warrior. Other than that the rogue could try the same on the Shaman with Kipale in a blind but he will trinket immediately and peel, hey if the rogue gets lucky he might see spirit link
Rogue/Mage Sap doesn't work on warrior most of the mage's burst is going to be reflected if not a polymorph will be, if the shaman gets CC'd Wall/Laststand is available. This turtle setup isn't going to lose to mage/rogue unless Kipale is put in a full polymorph with no way out and then is put into a blind. Shaman might die then depending on whether or not he is in range for a spirit link.
Maybe on RoV some crazy shit might go down and a random gank on Kipale happens if rogue has springs mage has tazik and shaman gets poly/blinded. Still think damage wouldn't be enough though.
Mage/Mage.. This would only be threatening on Ring of Valor I think where LoS is scarce.. So Kipale can just put on the 70 frost resistance bracers he has when they see RoV or if they've been queuing into double mage, random ganks on the shaman might happen but Kipale would need to be CC'd which is going to be a task for the mages as they're going to be getting spam purged if they're not putting out good pressure.
sPriest/rSham. 45 minute game inc.
Correct me on anything I don't play warrior/shaman so this could all be garbage
The key against rshaman is to force his trinket and get a good switch on him without eartshield, riptide and ancestral vigor.
The problem is most ppl dont do that well or try not even to force cooldowns.
As rogue disc for example its not that hard to kill a rshaman in a good switch while kipale is in full blind.
But most rogues/mages fail when they try to switch. CC on kipale while he dances me is a must have otherwise he gets just shockwaved and disarmed or some other shit.
Another problem is that it is fucking easy to see a incoming switch from most of the ppl in this bracket because they are sooo slow and dont even use focus macros like focus shadowstep to avoid me seeing the switch easily.
Its not like this that we can global a healer/x so we have to force cds aswell but alot of our enemy teams we played against failed using their defensive cooldowns/trinket.
We saw so many priests who used trinket / PS for no reason and we lol'd hard on skype
RevoltDarkspear
Legend
How can people force CDs like a trinket from the rSham without using a major CD themselves like blind etc :\
If Kipale is fully blinded then rSham should have trinket up unless they trinketed fear?
RevoltDarkspear
Legend
Vapriest
Legend
Not gonna give away our tactic to beat them in 3s, but as disc double rogue kipale died in 4 seconds of a full kidney with his shaman cc'd, not too hard just need to not be bad. As disc/rogue a kill on the shaman is also possible, just need to have your wits about you. What Lusiana said is pretty much 100% spot on - difference between good and bad players is how they use their cds - for instance, most bad rogues blind to get a reset, which they can do without cloaking if timed perfectly, requiring skill, in fact any rogue can reset the fight at any time with skill if their opponent has no trinket, 8 second blind, and then 14 seconds of saps if timed correctly will expire all dots.
Nevertheless the comp is nice but not unbeatable - as i said before any good rogue mage will be forcing every single cd from one of you in their opener, mage can nova kipale and either trinket or watch as his shaman has to trinket the opener and then the game is won.
Nevertheless the comp is nice but not unbeatable - as i said before any good rogue mage will be forcing every single cd from one of you in their opener, mage can nova kipale and either trinket or watch as his shaman has to trinket the opener and then the game is won.
Manaki
Legend
You're talking as if 99% of the bracket play priest, mage or rogue... oh wait, nevermind.
RevoltDarkspear
Legend
Heroic throw mage, shockwave rogue?
If not shockwave both? I know mage can blink but it stops a lot of the burst
Maybe in 3s but I don't see the same happening with only one rogue. I'd love to be shown I'm wrong though
dogform
Legend
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