65 Ret Pally

[Veechard]

I’ve decided after a lot of eightyupgrade planning, I will be leveling my naxx geared 60 pally to 65. There are a few reasons I have decided to do this, with the main reason being 450 engineering. But also the crit %s at 65 compared to 69, as well as the gem gear available.

The normal thought is 69 would be superior, but after alot of digging and comparisons, alot of 69s will be using gem gear over most wrath zone or instance blue quest items. This is because on release 16 stat gems will become available. My 69 mage is perfect example. I literally will be using northrend blue quest shoulders and a neck, and every other pieces of gear will be Naxx, gem, or engineering gear.

So the concept is, If at 65 I can get the same stam opportunities like 450 eng trinket with 81 stam, and 450 eng helm, and all other pieces be gem gear, and will end up with 10% more crit rating and about 250 less AP by staying 65, I think it’s the right choice. 10% crit is huge in the grand scheme of things as a Ret. More crit auto swings as well as CS and DS. More art of war procs, and then more crits with free flashes and exos from that art of war proc. The one thing you could argue is you would have 4 extra talent points, but as Ret, that would open up 4 sec longer blessing of freedoms, which is kinda of adding insult to injuring with rets amazing prospect. It’s very interesting to think a 65 could quite literally be better option than 69 for Ret. Also something not mentioned was the effect hyperspeed accelerators will have on 65 compared to 69. As well as haste proc/on use trinkets like BWL trinket or Kiss of spider.

I just wanted to share this info to inspire others to break your comfort zone and start thinking outside the box as far as what you feel is the best level for you and your current playstyle and stat stack. If your a fire mage that wants to stack crit so you can have ignite up on entire enemy team, you might want to consider going 62 where 2 gem socket shoulders open up as well as a trinket that gives 300 mana when someone dies or gives honor. Or maybe consider a 65 hunter where 2 gem shoulders, 2 gem boots, and 450 engineering opens up, stacking Crit with GLGx2 get like 70% crit chance or something wonky.

This bracket has so much potential in wrath it’s hard to fit it in writing. Sorry if I’m spamming the 69 thread page. I just want to start getting creative juices going and people come together to share ideas about how great this bracket is and will be

 

[Selaya]

cant you like access most if not all the socket gear at 60 already, if you're a plate user

 

[Veechard]

cant you like access most if not all the socket gear at 60 already, if you're a plate user

Yes but you lack the 450 eng gear and chants, the big ones being 81 stam trinket and helm that gives 77 stam. And being lower on health pool changes the way you have to play, instead of using art of war crit proc on exorsism for more damage, your forced to use it for the flash of light.

Diff stat wise between 60 and 65 is like 2.5k more health, like 300 more AP, and same crit rating. Then all the other benefits

Lots of other benefits too like able to use lvl 65 flasks.

 

[Sponsor]

60 only raids though

 

[Warglave]

Middle of the bracket has always been a decent spot except for hit rating.... against 69 and especially against PvE NPCs in AV. If you dont plan on going into AV much then it wont be a bad thing at all, not so bad hitting 4 levels up in PvP.

A couple more talent points too, from 60-65. Maybe some abilities. Always a bonus.

Always disappointing to see a Naxx geared toon level up tho, even in this farce of WoW. But not much reason not to.

cant you like access most if not all the socket gear at 60 already, if you're a plate user

But the new pieces you gain access too are better than the ones you settle for at 60 in most cases. Like DPS stats for DPS, not tank stats for DPS just cus it has sockets... here's an old rogue, i think he ws only like 63? Maybe 64? I forget...

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/uldum/shtab

But the improvement over what was available at 60 for leather was quite significant, especially for non-raiding toons.

edit- not to mention actual plate gear for the slots you'd have to use mail at 60, to be specific to the paladin topic.

 

[Veechard]

Middle of the bracket has always been a decent spot except for hit rating.... against 69 and especially against PvE NPCs in AV. If you dont plan on going into AV much then it wont be a bad thing at all, not so bad hitting 4 levels up in PvP.

A couple more talent points too, from 60-65. Maybe some abilities. Always a bonus.

Always disappointing to see a Naxx geared toon level up tho, even in this farce of WoW. But not much reason not to.



But the new pieces you gain access too are better than the ones you settle for at 60 in most cases. Like DPS stats for DPS, not tank stats for DPS just cus it has sockets... here's an old rogue, i think he ws only like 63? Maybe 64? I forget...

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/uldum/shtab

But the improvement over what was available at 60 for leather was quite significant, especially for non-raiding toons.

edit- not to mention actual plate gear for the slots you'd have to use mail at 60, to be specific to the paladin topic.

that woulda been a 64 Twink and yea perfect example. However hit is no issue for melee classes. My 60 even has no problem hitting 69s in BGs. Caster on the other hand have a little bit of an issue

 

[Warglave]

I had issue but only played a few AB while I was farming the honor for my wep... was not geared at all. Still broke on that (and every) account so I filled in the sockets with the cheap vendor gems you can buy in the inn in hellfire, even those weak +hit yellows give decent added hit. Didnt PvP yet on mine again since gearing, been grinding other stuff so not on top of things.

 

[Veechard]

I had issue but only played a few AB while I was farming the honor for my wep... was not geared at all. Still broke on that (and every) account so I filled in the sockets with the cheap vendor gems you can buy in the inn in hellfire, even those weak +hit yellows give decent added hit. Didnt PvP yet on mine again since gearing, been grinding other stuff so not on top of things.

Idk what they did this time around because some people were saying the same thing that they had issue with hitting on melee toons. But I have yet to miss a single crusader strike or divine storm move on a 60, even against 69s

 

[Warglave]

Weird. But not gonna coomplain.

 

[Selaya]

you're still suffering spellhit penalties for stuff like hoj and repent, it's not like a total nonissue unfortunately

 

[Desodelete]

Given that ret paladin looks to be the most overpowered, degenerate spec in 69 it shouldn't matter if you play 65 or 69. But personally, I think it's a bad idea to play at 65 even if you have more crit %. A BiS 69 ret will get 40% crit based on the templates we've made. Playing at 65, you'll lose top end damage, health, and a spell rank in hammer of wrath, exorcism, and flash of light

Do you have a eightysupgrade template for a 65 that we can see?

Make sure you play human to give yourself that 2 minute trinket advantage while every other race is trapped with thier 5 minute. It's kinda hilarious right now in prepatch humans trinket almost everything because thay can. It's so broken; even more than at 80 in my opinion.

We'll probably see some faction swaps and race change to human if 69 stays active. A lot current 69s are going to 79 (which is very understandable), quitting, or plan to play only max level. The bracket looks to be a bit if a shit show with the amount of ridiculous damage we are seeing even before we get wrath gear/gems/enchants/professions, the 2000 damage rocket gloves, and 1800 damage engi trinket. It's the perfect hunting ground for a human ret paladin twink I'd say. Or anyone that wants to soley grief levelers.

It's extremely different than TBC 69s and I've seen a definite drop of interest in the 69 community. For now I plan to stick around. The 24 hour games have been interesting. The 80% dks and extreme ramp up in damage output not so much.

 

[Warglave]

ret paladin looks to be the most overpowered, degenerate spec

Welcome to wrath, enjoy your stay.

edit- as to the comments on longevity, I dont expect much of that. But it'll be enjoyable for a few months maybe, at least.

 

[Desodelete]

Oh trust me I know. I still remember how ridiculous ret and dks were while leveling back in original wrath. Rets would have you checking your combat log constantly.

Let's be real though, the extreme pace of damage in 69s favors specs like ret - on demand, instant burst damage that doesn't require any set up. It's not as effective at 80, where the top end burst is lower (and resilience comes into play). Having that immunity is incredibly helpful in a meta where damage has ramped up so high. Lots if healing and utility, I can't see going wrong as a ret.
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edit- as to the comments on longevity, I dont expect much of that. But it'll be enjoyable for a few months maybe, at least.

I didn't want to be overly negative, but I think this is a realistic outlook. Things will die down pretty hard. While I'm sure the levelers will keep games going for xp, it's not going to interest me if it's only boring/lopsided games and only at prime time hours. I work second shift, so those types of things tend to be dead by the time I get home.

I will restate that the interest for 70 and 79 twinking is very high comparatively, not that I'm trying to recruit for it. Activity is going to be higher there than anything we've seen in vanilla or tbc. 70-79 honor grind and xp grind? There will be games all day for a long time.

Because of the high damage pace, casters should drop notably in effectiveness. Dots? You are dead before they tick. Cast a spell? You get kicked/stunned/silenced/gripped and die. Physical dps will be able to scale up crit better as well when the wrath scaling gets here. They'll all be able to get to around 40% pretty easily.

I wouldn't be surprised if a big melee ball of death filled with rets, prot warriors, and dks was the preferred composition.