60 mage BiS shoulders, neck and main/off hand?

[Tbaggins]

Recently, one of my friends and I started making two 60 twink mages and we're a little confused about certain BiS items.

We've read that the PvP shoulders and the Amulet of Vek'nilash should be BiS - but is this true?

And while we're at it, what combination of main and off hand is the best? Or is there a staff that is better than a main AND off hand?

Looking forward to your replies!

EDIT: And for that matter: except engineering, what are the best professions for a mage? Enchanting? So I can get spellpower on my rings? or herbalism? So I get another cooldown?

Or what?

 

[Fragments]

Recently, one of my friends and I started making two 60 twink mages and we're a little confused about certain BiS items.

We've read that the PvP shoulders and the Amulet of Vek'nilash should be BiS - but is this true?

And while we're at it, what combination of main and off hand is the best? Or is there a staff that is better than a main AND off hand?

Looking forward to your replies!

EDIT: And for that matter: except engineering, what are the best professions for a mage? Enchanting? So I can get spellpower on my rings? or herbalism? So I get another cooldown?

Or what?

If you're trying to maximize your survivability, the PvP shoulders are the best. However, I don't recommend going for survivability as a Frost Mage in this bracket, as Ice Barrier is ridiculous and you have plenty of CC -- stamina is overkill much of the time. Rather, I suggest gearing solely to maximize offensive stats, in which case Enigma Shoulderpads (for Horde) or Mantle of the Blackwing Cabal (for Alliance). Horde needs more Spell Penetration than Alliance to combat the Dwarf frost resistance racial.



As for the neck, depending on your stat weighting, either Amulet of Vek'nilash or Choker of the Fire Lord is best. I usually weight crit as a little more than half of a point of int, in which case Amulet of Vek'nilash is slightly better. However, the two are really close so if you get one of the two, you may as well just use that one.



Weapons are a toss-up between High Warlord's Spellblade + Master Dragonslayer's Orb and Dignified Headmaster's Charge. The main hand and offhand have 22 more spell power, while the staff has 4 more int and 9 more crit. Once again, the choice of which to use depends on your stat weights, but the main hand and offhand are probably better no matter what. Another offhand option is Royal Scepter of Vek'lor. The added crit makes up for its lower intellect, so the major tradeoff is that it gives more hit at the cost of some stamina. For a purely offensive build, go for the Scepter, and if you want more survivability you can choose the Orb.



You should go Herbalism for another cooldown. It's better than passive bonuses because much of its cooldown time will occur outside of combat, so it has a larger in-combat benefit.



The guide in my signature discusses many of these BiS topics for Frost Mages in this bracket. While it is intended for 64 Mages, it should still be helpful for some aspects of twinking in this bracket.

 

[Tbaggins]

If you're trying to maximize your survivability, the PvP shoulders are the best. However, I don't recommend going for survivability as a Frost Mage in this bracket, as Ice Barrier is ridiculous and you have plenty of CC -- stamina is overkill much of the time. Rather, I suggest gearing solely to maximize offensive stats, in which case Enigma Shoulderpads (for Horde) or Mantle of the Blackwing Cabal (for Alliance). Horde needs more Spell Penetration than Alliance to combat the Dwarf frost resistance racial.



As for the neck, depending on your stat weighting, either Amulet of Vek'nilash or Choker of the Fire Lord is best. I usually weight crit as a little more than half of a point of int, in which case Amulet of Vek'nilash is slightly better. However, the two are really close so if you get one of the two, you may as well just use that one.



Weapons are a toss-up between High Warlord's Spellblade + Master Dragonslayer's Orb and Dignified Headmaster's Charge. The main hand and offhand have 22 more spell power, while the staff has 4 more int and 9 more crit. Once again, the choice of which to use depends on your stat weights, but the main hand and offhand are probably better no matter what. Another offhand option is Royal Scepter of Vek'lor. The added crit makes up for its lower intellect, so the major tradeoff is that it gives more hit at the cost of some stamina. For a purely offensive build, go for the Scepter, and if you want more survivability you can choose the Orb.



You should go Herbalism for another cooldown. It's better than passive bonuses because much of its cooldown time will occur outside of combat, so it has a larger in-combat benefit.



The guide in my signature discusses many of these BiS topics for Frost Mages in this bracket. While it is intended for 64 Mages, it should still be helpful for some aspects of twinking in this bracket.

Really nice!

Thank you so much for your response!

I'd never have discovered that Scepter if it wasn't for you and it's awesome!

And I think I'm gonna get all the items - so I can make a BiS set and crit set etc. etc.



Thank you!





P.S. nice guide btw!

 

[Kithkaid]

Weapons are a toss-up between High Warlord's Spellblade + Master Dragonslayer's Orb and Dignified Headmaster's Charge. The main hand and offhand have 22 more spell power, while the staff has 4 more int and 9 more crit. Once again, the choice of which to use depends on your stat weights, but the main hand and offhand are probably better no matter what. Another offhand option is Royal Scepter of Vek'lor. The added crit makes up for its lower intellect, so the major tradeoff is that it gives more hit at the cost of some stamina. For a purely offensive build, go for the Scepter, and if you want more survivability you can choose the Orb.

The GM+OH combo is hands-down better than the DHC once you take enchants into account. The best enchant you can put on DHC is +22 int or +30sp, while the GM dagger can have +63 sp or Black Magic (not recommended for Frost). Alternatively, you can use the Blessed Qiraji Acolyte Staff which compared to the GM+Scepter combo gives you +4 sp, +1% hit, +24 stam, and -1.25% crit, assuming you put +81 sp on the staff and +63 sp on the GM dagger.



Also, how to you format item links?

 

[Tbaggins]

The GM+OH combo is hands-down better than the DHC once you take enchants into account. The best enchant you can put on DHC is +22 int or +30sp, while the GM dagger can have +63 sp or Black Magic (not recommended for Frost). Alternatively, you can use the Blessed Qiraji Acolyte Staff which compared to the GM+Scepter combo gives you +4 sp, +1% hit, +24 stam, and -1.25% crit, assuming you put +81 sp on the staff and +63 sp on the GM dagger.



Also, how to you format item links?

Hm.. Now you've got me all confused of which to pick

I guess I'll still pick the GM+Scepter - but depending on how much hit I'll get from my other items I might change to the staff

Thanks for the reponse

 

[Kithkaid]

Hm.. Now you've got me all confused of which to pick

I guess I'll still pick the GM+Scepter - but depending on how much hit I'll get from my other items I might change to the staff

Thanks for the reponse

BiS or near BiS gear with hit rating:



Cloak of the Devoured (C'thun)

Bracers of Arcane Accuracy (Broodlord Lashlayer)

Dark Storm Gauntlets (C'thun)

Ring of the Fallen God (C'thun's Eye quest reward)

Band of Forced Concentration (Ebonroc)

Neltharion's Tear (Nefarian)

 

[Fragments]

The GM+OH combo is hands-down better than the DHC once you take enchants into account. The best enchant you can put on DHC is +22 int or +30sp, while the GM dagger can have +63 sp or Black Magic (not recommended for Frost). Alternatively, you can use the Blessed Qiraji Acolyte Staff which compared to the GM+Scepter combo gives you +4 sp, +1% hit, +24 stam, and -1.25% crit, assuming you put +81 sp on the staff and +63 sp on the GM dagger.



Also, how to you format item links?

Oops, forgot about the difference in enchants between the two. Wrath enchants on the 60 gear (which gained a whole lot of spell power in 4.3) for sure make it better than the BoA staff, even at 64. I'll have to update my guide accordingly.



To format item links, type (without the %%):



[%%url=http://www.wowhead.com/item=23466]ITEM NAME HERE[/url%%]



And then manually color it the color of the quality of the item.

 

[Tbaggins]

It seems that you guys are the ones to ask about 60-64 mage twinking so.. One more thing..

I played around on chardev and I made this setup: http://chardev.org/?profile=301181 - do you have any comments, suggestions or changes you'd make?

 

[Kithkaid]

It seems that you guys are the ones to ask about 60-64 mage twinking so.. One more thing..

I played around on chardev and I made this setup: http://chardev.org/?profile=301181 - do you have any comments, suggestions or changes you'd make?

Gear and enchants look good. Personally I'd swap out one of the Noise Machines for Neltharion's Tear, IMO the 2% hit you gain is worth the tradeoff of 16 spellpower and ~.25% crit. I might also consider the Bracers of Arcane Accuracy as well, since you're only sacrificing 2 stamina and 6 spellpower for 1% hit.



I would definitely change some talents around. Improved Freeze is mostly a PvE raiding talent to get FoF procs on things you normally can't root. In PvP the 1st FoF proc you get from the talent is pretty much negated by the fact your target is rooted by the Freeze so you'd get your increased Ice Lance damage anyway unless your target broke the Freeze before your Ice Lance landed. If the talent was only 1 point it would probably be worth it, but not 3 points.



I also personally don't like Shattered Barrier since they put the root from it on the same diminishing returns as Cone of Cold. I'd find that often a victim of the Shattered Barrier root would be immune to the Cone of Cold root for several seconds, which I hated, since I want to always be able to control when I root my opponents.



I would put the points from Improved Freeze into Cold Snap and Ice Shards; those are much more useful talents. If you like Reactive Barrier then keep those points there, otherwise I'd top out Early Frost and have the 2nd point left over for one of the other talents.



Edited: I wrote Reactive Barrier when I meant Shattered Barrier.

 

[Fragments]

If you are doing fine on survivability, I recommend switching out the attack power Band of the Victor for a Ring of the Fallen God. You lose 13 crit but gain 12 int (a very good trade), as well as 8 hit rating. The only downside is that you lose some stamina, but I feel it's far worth it.



As a 60 I don't know if stacking much hit is a good thing if you have to sacrifice other stats. Maybe Kith can add some input here, but I often am the only 64 on horde side when I queue. Perhaps it's not worth aiming for good hit rating vs 64s, but I'm not entirely sure.



I disagree with Kithkaid about Improved Freeze; I find that it's a great way to get FoF charges quickly with little risk, even if the first charge is wasted much of the time. It's something you should try out and see for yourself if you like it in my opinion, I'm not sure there's a right or wrong answer. Definitely max out Early Frost though. Shattered Barrier is a good place to take out points if you need them to take other attractive talents - it's not amazing.

 

[Tbaggins]

Gear and enchants look good. Personally I'd swap out one of the Noise Machines for Neltharion's Tear, IMO the 2% hit you gain is worth the tradeoff of 16 spellpower and ~.25% crit. I might also consider the Bracers of Arcane Accuracy as well, since you're only sacrificing 2 stamina and 6 spellpower for 1% hit.



I would definitely change some talents around. Improved Freeze is mostly a PvE raiding talent to get FoF procs on things you normally can't root. In PvP the 1st FoF proc you get from the talent is pretty much negated by the fact your target is rooted by the Freeze so you'd get your increased Ice Lance damage anyway unless your target broke the Freeze before your Ice Lance landed. If the talent was only 1 point it would probably be worth it, but not 3 points.



I also personally don't like Reactive Barrier since they put the root from it on the same diminishing returns as Cone of Cold. I'd find that often a victim of the Reactive Barrier root would be immune to the Cone of Cold root for several seconds, which I hated, since I want to always be able to control when I root my opponents.



I would put the points from Improved Freeze into Cold Snap and Ice Shards; those are much more useful talents. If you like Reactive Barrier then keep those points there, otherwise I'd top out Early Frost and have the 2nd point left over for one of the other talents.

I like your ideas about the gear - but those extra hit percents would only benefit in PvE right? And of course against lvl 64's in BGs but there's already such a big chance of missing that it wouldn't make such big of a difference.. Would it?



Anyways, about the talents I can see your point - but there's one thing I have to know: If my target IS frozen and I have a FoF proc, when I cast my Ice Lance on the target, does the damage increases stack? If they don't I definately will change them to what you suggested, if not.. I'll have to think about it.

Thanks ^^

Btw, just when I remember this, I really appreciate the time you put into responding to my preposterous messages!

 

[Tbaggins]

If you are doing fine on survivability, I recommend switching out the attack power Band of the Victor for a Ring of the Fallen God. You lose 13 crit but gain 12 int (a very good trade), as well as 8 hit rating. The only downside is that you lose some stamina, but I feel it's far worth it.



As a 60 I don't know if stacking much hit is a good thing if you have to sacrifice other stats. Maybe Kith can add some input here, but I often am the only 64 on horde side when I queue. Perhaps it's not worth aiming for good hit rating vs 64s, but I'm not entirely sure.



I disagree with Kithkaid about Improved Freeze; I find that it's a great way to get FoF charges quickly with little risk, even if the first charge is wasted much of the time. It's something you should try out and see for yourself if you like it in my opinion, I'm not sure there's a right or wrong answer. Definitely max out Early Frost though. Shattered Barrier is a good place to take out points if you need them to take other attractive talents - it's not amazing.

Thanks for the response! I also want to thank you for the time you put into this thread!

And thanks for reminding me about Shattered Barrier! I have totally forgotten how bad it really is! I've just had this mental note that it was a talent I HAD to have. But now I've realized it's not! xD

I had been wondering what talent I should take from to put into Early Frost and I was thinking about the Improved Cone of Cold and just leave one in that one - but still, four seconds is about enough to blink away and cast a Frostbolt - two seconds is NOT. So thanks a lot for that one! You really helped me with that!

And I like your idea about the ring.. A lot.. That's actually a bit annoying cause I was hoping on having the two Victor rings - I simply found it more harmonic in some way. But I think I'm going to take the Fallen God ring.. Maybe I'll make a 'crit set', where I can put both Victor rings.

We'll see about that.



Thanks!

 

[Kithkaid]

As a 60 I don't know if stacking much hit is a good thing if you have to sacrifice other stats. Maybe Kith can add some input here, but I often am the only 64 on horde side when I queue. Perhaps it's not worth aiming for good hit rating vs 64s, but I'm not entirely sure.

It all depends on how many other stats you're sacrificing for the hit. I mentioned the bracers and Neth's tear in particular because I feel the tradeoff for those items is worth it.

I like your ideas about the gear - but those extra hit percents would only benefit in PvE right? And of course against lvl 64's in BGs but there's already such a big chance of missing that it wouldn't make such big of a difference.. Would it?

Up to 4% hit (32 hit rating at 60) will always be useful because your chance to hit is 96% against an equal level toon in PvP. Beyond that here's the breakdown of how much hit you need to guarantee hits on level 61-64 toons:



61 - 5%

62 - 6%

63 - 13%

64 - 20%



I think 6-7% (for a 60 toon) is a good goal to go for because you can get there without making big sacrifices to other stats and it gets you 100% hit against 60-62 toons.

 

[Tbaggins]

It all depends on how many other stats you're sacrificing for the hit. I mentioned the bracers and Neth's tear in particular because I feel the tradeoff for those items is worth it.







Up to 4% hit (32 hit rating at 60) will always be useful because your chance to hit is 96% against an equal level toon in PvP. Beyond that here's the breakdown of how much hit you need to guarantee hits on level 61-64 toons:



61 - 5%

62 - 6%

63 - 13%

64 - 20%



I think 6-7% (for a 60 toon) is a good goal to go for because you can get there without making big sacrifices to other stats and it gets you 100% hit against 60-62 toons.

I see your point - but I'm not sure I will make the exchange yet.. Anyways, about the other question I asked, if my target is frozen and I have one FoF proc, and I hurl an Ice Lance at the target - does the damage from the target being frozen and the FoF proc ability stack?

 

[Kithkaid]

I see your point - but I'm not sure I will make the exchange yet.. Anyways, about the other question I asked, if my target is frozen and I have one FoF proc, and I hurl an Ice Lance at the target - does the damage from the target being frozen and the FoF proc ability stack?

No, it doesn't, which means if you Ice Lance a frozen target when you have a FoF proc it essentially gets wasted.