40-49 Shaman (Gear for all Specs)

[darzk]

I needed an example where having crit/sp wont helm me survive, and a pally HoJ opener came to mind; as I cant even NS+HT - you just *have* to live through it. Even against enhance shammies or arms warriors I get the oppourtunity to fakecast-heal or NS heal, but not against pallies, thats all.



Although you can Stoneclaw/Grounding, but that doesnt scale with healing thouroughput either.

 

[Falkor]

I needed an example where having crit/sp wont helm me survive, and a pally HoJ opener came to mind; as I cant even NS+HT - you just *have* to live through it. Even against enhance shammies or arms warriors I get the oppourtunity to fakecast-heal or NS heal, but not against pallies, thats all.



Although you can Stoneclaw/Grounding, but that doesnt scale with healing thouroughput either.

crit and SP are important, just dont stack either exclusively. you want as much spell power with out gimping hp/mp. and let crit come naturally, dont specifically gear for it, take what you get from gear and talents and let it fly!

as for stoneclaw, @ 49 it absorbs almost 1k damage which will let you live long enough to get a quick heal or two at least...depending on how much damage the other class is doing, if they crit, or if they have friends etc.

i wouldnt be too concerned about pallys, i highly doubt you will ever be bursted for 3k+ in the duration of one HoJ....

now as for warriors, i wouldnt get too worried either. 90-99% of warriors wont pummel you b/c we prefer to stay in battle stance now. you should just be worried about MS and its effects, and trying to kite the hell out of a warrior to live until support comes. a good enh shaman will try to shock ur heals, so work on fake casting them. but honestly a lot of shaman i've seen nowadays are total noobs. on my moonkin or ele shaman i've had at least 80% of these new breed artards frost or flame shock me and allow me to blow them up with spells as i wish; dont be that guy!

 

[Maerduk]

Lol it's because of those new talents in the ele tree, they think they can deal "leet" damage with flame shock these days, or spam frost shock and win. A little like what we were discussing earlier, at 39 I barely use frostshock, unless I have to kite a rogue/warrior around. Gotta love the new breeds though, they're changing not only the face of twinking with their massive in-flux, but end game WoW as well.

 

[Falkor]

Lol it's because of those new talents in the ele tree, they think they can deal "leet" damage with flame shock these days, or spam frost shock and win. A little like what we were discussing earlier, at 39 I barely use frostshock, unless I have to kite a rogue/warrior around. Gotta love the new breeds though, they're changing not only the face of twinking with their massive in-flux, but end game WoW as well.

its not even ele shaman tho, the worse offenders are noob enh shaman! of all people they should know the importance of earth shock to interrupt....but w/e if they're that noobish i will allow them the wish of dying to LB/CL or wrath/starfire

 

[Maerduk]

its not even ele shaman tho, the worse offenders are noob enh shaman! of all people they should know the importance of earth shock to interrupt....but w/e if they're that noobish i will allow them the wish of dying to LB/CL or wrath/starfire

Lol enh shamans have always been nubs in my opinion, most of them that is. I've only seen like 1 or 2 that have actually played decently, but even then it's a 2 button win class. You hit stormstrike you win, doesn't take much skill imo. Most of them talk it up real big like they're so amazing at the game because they play a class with a spec that can 1 shot essentially anyone, and very easily at that.

 

[Alkaholic]

Bout as nubbish as paladins.

 

[Maerduk]

Bout as nubbish as paladins.

Yep, because we get an instant attack ability in the 49 bracket...

 

[Alkaholic]

Who needs an insta attack when u have a 6 sec stun and can kill during that time. Do we really need to go thru all this again? A ret paladin calling any class noobish is hilarious.

 

[Maerduk]

Who needs an insta attack when u have a 6 sec stun and can kill during that time. Do we really need to go thru all this again? A ret paladin calling any class noobish is hilarious.

Rofl yep because we can burst out 2.7-3k damage in one HoJ. I call bullshit, show me it happening and then we can talk. No I won't argue this again, it's pointless. Keep playing enh or arguing that ret is nub, or w/e if you want. Enh can still get 1.8k wf crits, I cannot reach anything nearly that high. 1k+ earthshock crits vs 680 judge crits and ES has a 2 sec less cd than judge, even if you spec imp judge and it interrupts spell casting... It's a pointless fucking argument, not to mention HoJ is dispellable/trinketable, WF crits and storm strike insta attack crits are not.



As for saying "a ret paladin" I played a shit ton more as holy in the 49 bracket than I have as ret, my holy set was max pre-3.1, so don't even go on that soap box about "lolret ur OP, dun talk OP LOLOL!!!L!11111!!" Not to mention that my 70 pally was raid spec'd prot for nearly 2 years...

 

[Alkaholic]

LMAO, I don't play an enhancement shaman. There are so many classes that can wreck enhancement shaman it's not even funny. Now, let's see how many classes pwn ret paladins...not many.



We've already established that ur dmg seems to be quite lower than most ret paladins. So in those 6 seconds, u have 2 autoswings, any of which critting = 800 dmg. An auto crit judgement, 800 dmg. If SoC procs, another 800 dmg. So someone is boned for 2400 dmg while u consecrate and scratch ur balls. When the come out, they're within range for 1 more melee and it's Hammer of GG time.



That's being conservative. I see a LOT more n00b paladins than I see enhancement shaman, cause they all know the FotM is currently paladins.



My paladin is Areola and my shaman is Niggligent if u want to check my toons. I'm not bashing ur skill or u for that matter. I just hate to see ANY class talk down on another as if theirs requires more skill.

 

[Maerduk]

LMAO, I don't play an enhancement shaman. There are so many classes that can wreck enhancement shaman it's not even funny. Now, let's see how many classes pwn ret paladins...not many.



We've already established that ur dmg seems to be quite lower than most ret paladins. So in those 6 seconds, u have 2 autoswings, any of which critting = 800 dmg. An auto crit judgement, 800 dmg. If SoC procs, another 800 dmg. So someone is boned for 2400 dmg while u consecrate and scratch ur balls. When the come out, they're within range for 1 more melee and it's Hammer of GG time.



That's being conservative. I see a LOT more n00b paladins than I see enhancement shaman, cause they all know the FotM is currently paladins.



My paladin is Areola and my shaman is Niggligent if u want to check my toons. I'm not bashing ur skill or u for that matter. I just hate to see ANY class talk down on another as if theirs requires more skill.

I can deal white crits upwards of 900, I'm not arguing my white damage isn't decent, but how is SoC another 800 damage on proc when it's only 45% of weapon damage? You see a lot more noob paladins nowadays because blizz let BE's become paladins, tbh that's all I see flooded in bgs are tons and tons of metro elf nub rets. I'm generally the only paladin in my bg in most cases on alliance side, and then I just get swamped by BE rets trying to down me.



I never said ret paladin requires more skill rofl, in fact I think it's pretty skill-less. I've said it before, all you do is auto-attack, it's very boring. But, there is one thing I do well, that's cleansing, healing others, and utilizing abilities when they're needed to be used. That's what sets apart one paladin from another.



Whereas, in the other sense what falkor and I were discussing is how we see new players these days who just seem to be so damn crutched on their gear that they don't know how to play their class, and one that I've noticed recently and pretty much all the time was enh shamans... All they've ever done in my battlegroup has been to go for the one shot or nothing at all. They'll come up and ss me and hope I die and when that doesn't happens they usually end up getting owned and trying to run away in gw, but then it's judge of justice time. I've even seen ones that clearly had almost maxed out gear not even purge BoP when I used it and instead tried to cast LB or something stupid. I've noticed others that don't use earth shock when they should be and yet others that never use grounding totems.



He mentioned players using flameshock and frost shock instead of earth shock and I assumed based on what I saw that it was elemental shamans because most of them spec'd into all the imp shocks so their frost shock is a 3 sec cd and they try to spam it and think they can win that way. I also mentioned enh being an easy mode class because it's essentially the one class that I've seen able to one shot any class, in any gear, as any spec countless times and with no skill at all, because let's be honest how hard is it to hit stormstrike? And if all else fails, just imp ghostwolf and run away to a healer like most of them do.



Of course I'm going to bash a class like that, call it hypocritical, I don't care, but what I mentioned was that paladins do not have an ability like that until lvl 50 when we can unlock crusader strike. If I had crusader strike at 49 (essentially stormstrike for rets) then I'd be one shotting people left and right as well and it would be horribly imba, like enh shamans if geared and spec'd properly. But, I don't have that, that is all I was saying.

 

[Taitaih]

SoC proc definitely doesn't hit as hard as a judgement (the proc doesn't take AP into account). Auto-swing critting will do 800 damage only to cloth (against me with 25% damage reduction it only does like 600 at best).



Paladin's damage feels about right to me at this moment. I split with pallys 50-50 when they had exorcism and CDs and now I have no issues with them at all. I can understand why shamans would have some issues with them, especially if grounding totems are mistimed.



I think 2.0k to 2.5k is a little closer to average damage a paladin can throw out. In any case you need to be trinketing that damn HoJ anyway.





FOTM is definitely warriors... or at least it was. They had it retardedly easy being able to charge every <15 seconds with a intercept thrown in as well.

 

[Alkaholic]

Warriors are only till 3.1.3. Then they'll fade away.



Back on subject, u're describing the horrible shaman. I can describe the horrible paladins. A skilled shaman plays a lot differently. They shock to snare, dispell before stormstriking, earthshock casts, etc. The same way a skilled paladin does all those things u talk about. I know a shaman that heals so much u'd think he was resto. He can get kills and knows when to kite to safety, just like the great rets I've seen in the bracket.

 

[Taitaih]

Yea, you have no idea how many hybrids kite away to reset the fight against me. Caster hybrids like shamans/paladins/druids usually have to choose either to heal or try to burst me down. Burst usually doesn't work with all of the heals that I can throw on myself and running away just lets me reset the fight back in my favor. Give me anything magic to dispel, and I turn it against you quickly.



In shaman v paladin, I could see two very good players splitting it 50-50, however with the shamans having a smaller margin of error. Two noobs duking it out... paladin wins lol.

 

[Maerduk]

Back on subject, u're describing the horrible shaman. .

Did I not mention that I was describing the horrible shamans that crutch on gear only? I mean I did say this didn't I? That was somewhere in that massive wall of text wasn't it. I also remember saying that these were the only shamans that I seemed to encounter in my BG, and almost all of the times they were enh, with only 2 that I can think of off-hand that are actually decent, ie purges, grounding, earthshocks. And even then they could easily one shot 4-5 people in a row without having to do anything but press one button. Case closed, that's all I was saying, we (falkor and myself) mentioned how the new players these days seem bad at their classes and crutched on gear.

 

[Alkaholic]

Lol enh shamans have always been nubs in my opinion, most of them that is. I've only seen like 1 or 2 that have actually played decently, but even then it's a 2 button win class. You hit stormstrike you win, doesn't take much skill imo. Most of them talk it up real big like they're so amazing at the game because they play a class with a spec that can 1 shot essentially anyone, and very easily at that.

U said this. I responded off ur generalization of shamans. I said, the same could be said for paladins and here we are. Bad shaman are bad. Bad paladins are bad. Shaman aren't any more nubbish than Paladins or Locks or huntards or warriors at the moment.

 

[Maerduk]

Originally Posted by Maerduk

Lol enh shamans have always been nubs in my opinion, most of them that is. I've only seen like 1 or 2 that have actually played decently, but even then it's a 2 button win class. You hit stormstrike you win, doesn't take much skill imo. Most of them talk it up real big like they're so amazing at the game because they play a class with a spec that can 1 shot essentially anyone, and very easily at that.

U said this. I responded off ur generalization of shamans. I said, the same could be said for paladins and here we are. Bad shaman are bad. Bad paladins are bad. Shaman aren't any more nubbish than Paladins or Locks or huntards or warriors at the moment.

What I posted is not only opinion but generally a fact, if you have a problem with my opinion that's fine, but it's a well known fact that most enh shamans can press 1 button (stormstrike) and basically one shot anyone. You cannot do that on a ret paladin, at least not in this bracket. I have stated this again and again, I don't think you're getting the point I was saying. I said that most enh shamans were nubs in my opinion because all the ones I have played against have been bad players, crutched on gear, etc etc. I'm seriously just continuing to repeat myself I don't even know why I'm typing this all out again. I have played against 1-2 enh shamans in my BG that are actually good, that I respect, despite the easiness of their ability to one shot any class. That is all. I'm done. I really don't even understand why there was an issue. Show me a vid of any ret paladin one shotting a fully twinked player in a bg without the zerker buff and then sure I'll eat my words. I suggest you go to youtube, type in "49 shaman twink" click on one of the many enh vids and watch as they press storm strike and one shot people, then bask in the glory of seeing 2 wf crits of 1.6k+ pop up with a 1k white crit. Let's add that up, that's 3.2k in one button. K thx.

 

[Alkaholic]

/facepalm



ANYONE can 1 shot noobs w/ low health. No matter how much u say something it doesn't make it fact. There's no way I could be 1 shotted by a shaman on ANY of the toons I play. Hunter, shaman, warrior, paladin, lock.



I'm not sure what u're debating. I didn't say enhancement shaman don't have burst. That's about all they have.



What I'm stating and what u're taking personal offense to is that paladins are JUST take just as little or less skill to play @ the mediocre lvl U are talking about. I've yet to see a paladin kill my grounding totem, they all come in for the stun. Should I judge them all as nubs? Since u want to look @ Youtube though, here's a sampling of the UBER skills it takes to pwn as a paladin, the dk's of the 49 bracket.



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIS4O_MhdZI]YouTube - lmnop 49 paladin Just Bring It and how to[/ame]



The below is from the 3.1 patch before Excorcism was nerfed. Yeah, paladins are hard.



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LhLAHPqCug]YouTube - 49 Ret Paladin Twink - Judgepockets - Patch 3.1[/ame]



I'm done going back and forth. I don't care if a squishy shaman can 1 shot a non twink @ a high cost to mana. I laugh that a ret paladin can win a fight vs another twink in a relatively short time and still come out w/ high mana and most their hp. First it was warriors, now it's enhancement shamans, rofl...

 

[Maerduk]

/facepalm



ANYONE can 1 shot noobs w/ low health. No matter how much u say something it doesn't make it fact. There's no way I could be 1 shotted by a shaman on ANY of the toons I play. Hunter, shaman, warrior, paladin, lock.



I'm not sure what u're debating. I didn't say enhancement shaman don't have burst. That's about all they have.



What I'm stating and what u're taking personal offense to is that paladins are JUST take just as little or less skill to play @ the mediocre lvl U are talking about. I've yet to see a paladin kill my grounding totem, they all come in for the stun. Should I judge them all as nubs? Since u want to look @ Youtube though, here's a sampling of the UBER skills it takes to pwn as a paladin, the dk's of the 49 bracket.



YouTube - lmnop 49 paladin Just Bring It and how to



The below is from the 3.1 patch before Excorcism was nerfed. Yeah, paladins are hard.



YouTube - 49 Ret Paladin Twink - Judgepockets - Patch 3.1



I'm done going back and forth. I don't care if a squishy shaman can 1 shot a non twink @ a high cost to mana. I laugh that a ret paladin can win a fight vs another twink in a relatively short time and still come out w/ high mana and most their hp. First it was warriors, now it's enhancement shamans, rofl...

A. Yes, I said one shot twinks, and fully twinked players, as I've seen it done before and the damage output that I mentioned also shadows that. You can't deny the actual numbers that I set out there... (let's take your hunter for example nearly 3k hp, shaman comes up to you, hits SS, SS crits for say 900, and you get the awesome debuff that makes you take 20% more nature dmg, wf procs, wf is nature damage, wf crits you for 1.6k twice. You die...)

B. I said a vid of ret paladins one shotting fully twinked players.

C. I never mentioned exorcism nor have I ever said it was a necessity in the bracket or qq'd about it.

D. L2use water shield. (and omglolol imp stormstrike gives you 20% base mana back every time you use it?!?!)

E. I've always had a problem with gear crutching players, especially enhancement shamans, but you know nothing about me and immediately started an argument about my opinion.

F. I don't give a fuck anymore.

 

[Taitaih]

Rets can't kill everything in a short span of time as long as the other player isn't keyboard turning stupid.