40-49 hemo rogue

Wuts

Wuts

Legend
was wondering if anybody care to explain to me when it's best to use 2x sword/maces or 1 sword + 1 dagger etc? because the swords almost always have better score according to my PAWN addon. I recently respecced from combat daggers to subtlety and am doing both pve and pvp for leveling on a pvp server, and investing a lot into my gear and max professions as I level in order to be competitive.

I'm currently lvl 43 with MH fiery vanquishers sword and OH sword of omen with my old combat daggers still in the bank.
 
I am by no means an expert for rogues. So please do more research. To my knowledge dagger mh is for ambush builds. Besides that you will want sword mh. For off hand you use either fastest for poisoning, or highest stat for your ambush.
 
Here's the talent spec I would recommend and here's your gear template. You'll want to replace almost every slot you can with BG rep items once you get them though.
 
Outofspace said:
Here's the talent spec I would recommend and here's your gear template. You'll want to replace almost every slot you can with BG rep items once you get them though.
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That's a good set for alliance. My only critque is that you probably want 2/2 Dirty Deeds for MUs where you want to open with cheap shot. With 2 points you can CS > Hemo > Hemo with 1 energy tick (110 total).

Can't forget about https://classic.wowhead.com/item=19159/woven-ivy-necklace as a placeholder and https://classic.wowhead.com/item=19120/rune-of-the-guard-captain if you're horde. Rune also frees up a talent point.

Rogues probably have the most flexible talent choices of any class in the bracket. There are a lot of ways you can build them.

https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-calc/rogue/--500253000330121 is going to be the core of any nondagger hemo build.

You could go heavy assassination https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-calc/rogue/305200104--500253000330121 for a less control / higher damage build.

You could also put 8+ points into combat for hit cap (which I think is probably mandatory on rogue) and 3/3 Imp Gouge.
 
Strokes said:
That's a good set for alliance. My only critque is that you probably want 2/2 Dirty Deeds for MUs where you want to open with cheap shot. With 2 points you can CS > Hemo > Hemo with 1 energy tick (110 total).

Can't forget about https://classic.wowhead.com/item=19159/woven-ivy-necklace as a placeholder and https://classic.wowhead.com/item=19120/rune-of-the-guard-captain if you're horde. Rune also frees up a talent point.

Rogues probably have the most flexible talent choices of any class in the bracket. There are a lot of ways you can build them.

https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-calc/rogue/--500253000330121 is going to be the core of any nondagger hemo build.

You could go heavy assassination https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-calc/rogue/305200104--500253000330121 for a less control / higher damage build.

You could also put 8+ points into combat for hit cap (which I think is probably mandatory on rogue) and 3/3 Imp Gouge.
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Hey so what's the hit cap for 49? Is it 5? Running a 3/12/25 myself and loving it. But that +5% crit (which is almost 50% more than i currently have, ~11%atm) ruthlessness and relentless attacks sounds tasty. But if the hit cap is still quite important I'll keep the combat points.

Also how much better is Crusader than fiery for PvP? Thanks
 
The higher you go the less value is on something like fiery, pretty sure your instant poison will do more damage at that level. As far as hit goes there's always argument but the best I could find on the interwebs it is 5% to PvP cap.

Crits are nice, but missing a gouge or eviscerate or blind or whatever is pretty disturbing... so i'd cap the hit.

edit- hit "cap" is just the soft cap to not miss special attacks and such. Hard cap to not miss anything is unattainable.
 
If we're arguing semantics, when people say hit cap is 5% against equal level targets - what that means (in game) is that the difference between your weapon skill and their defense is 0. Weapon skill / Defense is capped for your level in BGs so effectively it means the same thing. This is overanswering your question, but...

5% + (Defense Skill - Weapon Skill)*.1% = miss chance - https://vanilla-wow.fandom.com/wiki/Hit

*(+0) 0 : 5.0% / dual-wield: 24% - (49 vs 49)
*(+1) 5 : 5.5% / dual-wield: 24.5%
*(+2) 10 : 6.0% / dual-wield: 25%

A different formula gets used if the target has over +10 Defense when compared to your weapon skill.

7% + (Defense Skill - Weapon Skill - 10)*.4%

*(+3) 15 : 9.0% / dual-wield: 28%

If you're attacking a target with +15 Defense (+3 levels) than your weapon skill - gaining +5 weapon skill is equivalent to gaining 3% hit *******THIS DOESNT MATTER FOR PVP***********

TL;DR

Hit cap against other 49s is 5%
Anyone who says weapon skill is needed for BGs doesn't understand how weapon skill actually works
 
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Strokes said:
If we're arguing semantics, when people say hit cap is 5% against equal level targets - what that means (in game) is that the difference between your weapon skill and their defense is 0. Weapon skill / Defense is capped for your level in BGs so effectively it means the same thing. This is overanswering your question, but...

5% + (Defense Skill - Weapon Skill)*.1% = miss chance - https://vanilla-wow.fandom.com/wiki/Hit

*(+0) 0 : 5.0% / dual-wield: 24% - (49 vs 49)
*(+1) 5 : 5.5% / dual-wield: 24.5%
*(+2) 10 : 6.0% / dual-wield: 25%

A different formula gets used if the target has over +10 Defense when compared to your weapon skill.

7% + (Defense Skill - Weapon Skill - 10)*.4%

*(+3) 15 : 9.0% / dual-wield: 28%

If you're attacking a target with +15 Defense (+3 levels) than your weapon skill - gaining +5 weapon skill is equivalent to gaining 3% hit *******THIS DOESNT MATTER FOR PVP***********

TL;DR

Hit cap against other 49s is 5%
Anyone who says weapon skill is needed for BGs doesn't understand how weapon skill actually works
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Appreciate your replies gentleman. Strokes, can you reassure me that Crusader is definitely the way to go @ 49 PvP over Fiery? I know it's a better enchant but I just want to reassure myself before I drop all that gold
 
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Yea, I'm not sure where I stand on the crusader / fiery debate anymore.

Fiery is 6ppm for 40 damage - 240 damage per minute - 4 DPS
Crusader is 1ppm for 15 sec of 100 str + heal - (100/14) - 7.1 DPS for 15 sec + ~100 healing

Fiery is consistent damage
Crusader is burst / heal

Even if one is better, I doubt it outperforms its counterpart by 'that' much. I don't think having a crusader > fiery MH weapon switch is worth it for rogue due to the GCD timer. Personally, I would just use crusader because it'll give you bigger crits, and big numbers make my loins feel funny.
 
Strokes said:
Yea, I'm not sure where I stand on the crusader / fiery debate anymore.

Fiery is 6ppm for 40 damage - 240 damage per minute - 4 DPS
Crusader is 1ppm for 15 sec of 100 str + heal - (100/14) - 7.1 DPS for 15 sec + ~100 healing

Fiery is consistent damage
Crusader is burst / heal

Even if one is better, I doubt it outperforms its counterpart by 'that' much. I don't think having a crusader > fiery MH weapon switch is worth it for rogue due to the GCD timer. Personally, I would just use crusader because it'll give you bigger crits, and big numbers make my loins feel funny.
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In PvE they may be similar (maybe) but in PvP there's no comparison, crusader is much much better.
In pvp you're rarely (maybe not ever) going to be in a situation where consistent damage over a minute is going to matter. Burst is king and the extra dmg of crusader is much more useful.
 
Famousatnight said:
In PvE they may be similar (maybe) but in PvP there's no comparison, crusader is much much better.
In pvp you're rarely (maybe not ever) going to be in a situation where consistent damage over a minute is going to matter. Burst is king and the extra dmg of crusader is much more useful.
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Thanks budday. So double Crusader or +15 AGI on OH?
 
Strokes said:
Yea, I'm not sure where I stand on the crusader / fiery debate anymore.

Fiery is 6ppm for 40 damage - 240 damage per minute - 4 DPS
Crusader is 1ppm for 15 sec of 100 str + heal - (100/14) - 7.1 DPS for 15 sec + ~100 healing

Fiery is consistent damage
Crusader is burst / heal

Even if one is better, I doubt it outperforms its counterpart by 'that' much. I don't think having a crusader > fiery MH weapon switch is worth it for rogue due to the GCD timer. Personally, I would just use crusader because it'll give you bigger crits, and big numbers make my loins feel funny.
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Would you say double Crusader for that double chance on process? Or +15 AGI OH? I kinda want double Cru
 
Ok, I think folks gave up due to how much hand holding you need (how many ppl can tell you to get Crusader MH?). You only want proc enchants on your MH. Stick with 15 agi or a weapon chain for now on the OH.

Same logic follows your other question about OH dagger. Go with the stats, avoid procs.
 
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Yup, all viable for 49, until Revered. If you care that much about speed though, Vendetta beats most options.
 
Was just looking for a confirmation before I blew all the gold, sorry to disturb you good sir. I hope all three of those people can recover.

Thanks for the input everybody. Happy Hunting
 
I might do this with my rogue, got him to 45 before I said fuck it. 49 twinking was a blast in vanilla and bc. I do have the level 45 epic sword unequipped. Might go sader mh 15 agi off.
 
Cattywompus said:
I might do this with my rogue, got him to 45 before I said fuck it. 49 twinking was a blast in vanilla and bc. I do have the level 45 epic sword unequipped. Might go sader mh 15 agi off.
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Yeah it's a really fun bracket. Bloodrazer isn't favored though, since the proc can break blind. Thrash Blade is the typical go-to.
 
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