39s plans for saturday!!!

Firstly there will always be people left out, that's unavoidable anyway you look at it. A lot of 39s that will be Qing up are already in the same guilds, so you will get people communicating using voice com even if they aren't in party. Guilds have already a nice spread of classes so that won't be an issue. Steamroll? this isn't 19s or 29s, we do have healers and group communication!

The feedback I am getting here is that a lot of people are loners- not specifically at you [MENTION=16519]Laurenti[/MENTION] , they don't want to coordinate with guilds or with other 39s. They just want the day to come and just Q up. Which is unfortunate, because this is a MMO....networking is a must to have the most optimum experience. It is very simple, me personally...I have over 60 39s on btag, the reason for this is so that multiple groups can be formed,faction balance can be achieved, people will know for sure that BGs will pop because we will know roughly how much on each faction are Qing up, there might even be multiple bgs running simultaneously on the day because of how many interested people we have.

Solo Qing in itself is fine for people that don't mind losing etc, but for the first revival in a while, if there is a better/smoother way to have things running, then that way should be tried. Who knows maybe in a couple weeks it can be such taht we can just log on on a saturday and solo Q and get pops!

So bottom line, start networking and aligning with other 39s!

The major issue is that grouping queueing interferes with pops when you only have a small pool of people queued. If there's a group of 5 and 8 people solo queued, it seems like it still prioritizes the people who queued first. You run into situations where you have more than enough on both factions, but since the 8 solo queued people are tentatively placed in the game, the last two spots won't fill.

Organization through voice chat/forums/battletag is important, effective and necessary. Group queuing isn't. There's no problem with forming raid groups for organization and communication, but for logistical reasons everyone in the group should still solo queue.
 
The major issue is that grouping queueing interferes with pops when you only have a small pool of people queued. If there's a group of 5 and 8 people solo queued, it seems like it still prioritizes the people who queued first. You run into situations where you have more than enough on both factions, but since the 8 solo queued people are tentatively placed in the game, the last two spots won't fill.

Organization through voice chat/forums/battletag is important, effective and necessary. Group queuing isn't. There's no problem with forming raid groups for organization and communication, but for logistical reasons everyone in the group should still solo queue.

Exactly what he said, ty for elaborating that in better words than me :D
Also, you and your 4 other people solo Q, all 5 of you pop into the same game, that is totally fine. Stay in your voice comms in between pawps, and add in anyone else that is wants to join on your team. It isn't that complicated, but at the same time you avoid those Q bugs where games wont pop, because some special snowflakes are grouped. It is only negative :(
 
[MENTION=26098]paynefull[/MENTION] , I suppose.
I don't mind solo quing while others group Q, I could care less about winning or losing, I am just here for good games. My point is, if you have a group quing a 5man, that reduces the number of slots in that BG to 5 others who are solo Quing. Lets say each faction has three groups quing 5mans each. You are going to have two groups sitting out a game every other game ( out of your 6 groups), Basically, you are going to get the same 5 mans against each other, over and over. Not everyones 5man will be of the same quality, and one faction (with the better 5 mans ) will dominate games, and they will be the same games over and over. If everyone solo Ques, you get different games each time, because 10 people from each faction are randomly (ish) added to each bg. Obviously how fast people reQ will affect who gets into what games, but it will be more random. This is how 19s got out of the wsg que bug with our last revival, and we got to very stable games.

edit: [MENTION=26098]paynefull[/MENTION], I'm not sure if you are just hypocritical or what, but you say you want good games, yet your only 39 twink is a rogue......... RIP logic bois

Leave the maths to me its all planned out! You just log on and be there, I'm all about change! If it seems it's not working that way, or people aren't getting Qs we will adjust accordingly. From rotating people in and out to mixing up the groups all together or last resort Qing solo!

Secondly, attacking my persona with lack of information shows the level of mindset you are in, because I do have other 39s but maybe I haven't gotten time to add it to my signature. "RIP logic".....logic also dies when people assume without asking and further more makes judgement on their assumptions.
 
Leave the maths to me its all planned out! You just log on and be there, I'm all about change! If it seems it's not working that way, or people aren't getting Qs we will adjust accordingly. From rotating people in and out to mixing up the groups all together or last resort Qing solo!

Secondly, attacking my persona with lack of information shows the level of mindset you are in, because I do have other 39s but maybe I haven't gotten time to add it to my signature. "RIP logic".....logic also dies when people assume without asking and further more makes judgement on their assumptions.

1. I am simply sharing my experience of a problem that has been had multiple times by 19s in the past.
2. You have 11 characters in your signature, only one of them is a 39 twink. It is a rogue, probably the most detrimental class to any LOW LEVEL bracket in any way/shape/form. I would assume (yes, this is a very reasonable assumption), that if you had other 39 twinks, you would showcase them in your signature along with all of your other characters. As someone that is looking at your signature, how am I supposed to know that you have/plan on playing any other 39s besides a rogue?

I was simply pointing out the fact that if you wish to have enjoyable games for the bracket, you should probably shelve the rogue and play something else.
Please enlighten me about any other 39 twinks that you have, as I am very curious :D
 
1. I am simply sharing my experience of a problem that has been had multiple times by 19s in the past.
2. You have 11 characters in your signature, only one of them is a 39 twink. It is a rogue, probably the most detrimental class to any LOW LEVEL bracket in any way/shape/form. I would assume (yes, this is a very reasonable assumption), that if you had other 39 twinks, you would showcase them in your signature along with all of your other characters. As someone that is looking at your signature, how am I supposed to know that you have/plan on playing any other 39s besides a rogue?

I was simply pointing out the fact that if you wish to have enjoyable games for the bracket, you should probably shelve the rogue and play something else.
Please enlighten me about any other 39 twinks that you have, as I am very curious :D

Its a continuous problems in 19s because people try the same idiotic solutions and get the same idiotic results.
And I only post toons that are finished in my signature...if u must know.
Paynelessly @ Frostmourne - Community - World of Warcraft

And if you think that rogues are Fotm, you haven't checked out BM monks, feral druids, enhance shaman or crusader stacked warriors. Which leaves me to believe your either ill-informed or don't play twink bgs a lot, to add to this your point is from a perspective of solo Qing bgs and the problems ppl who are solo Qing will have. Thats why I believe Qing in gps is the best way to go.
 
Its a continuous problems in 19s because people try the same idiotic solutions and get the same idiotic results.
And I only post toons that are finished in my signature...if u must know.
Paynelessly @ Frostmourne - Community - World of Warcraft

And if you think that rogues are Fotm, you haven't checked out BM monks, feral druids, enhance shaman or crusader stacked warriors. Which leaves me to believe your either ill-informed or don't play twink bgs a lot, to add to this your point is from a perspective of solo Qing bgs and the problems ppl who are solo Qing will have. Thats why I believe Qing in gps is the best way to go.

It is not a continuous problem because people in 19s use the same "idiotic" solutions over and over, the last time that this problem occurred was when there was a warsong gulch que bug that occurred, where 10 people on each faction would be in a solo Q, xp off, and there would be no warsong pop. Due to this bug, games stopped happening as no one could get into a warsong gulch, and 19s died for the time. When we revived them, we stressed that everyone solo Q, as that helped more warsongs pop.
Better gear that shaman quick :D

Now you are putting thoughts in my head lmao. I never said that rogues were FOTM and overpowered. However, I did say that "rogues are the most detrimental class to any low level bracket." In case you need some further explanation of that, it is due to the fact that if your team consists of 5 rogues, it is going to be an awful game of being contained for you, because you will have absolutely no mid presence, get steamrolled in mid, be pushed back to your graveyard, while your rogues stealth out and try to 5v10 the rest of the warsong, or just gank people randomly in mid while the efc caps three flags on you. The only thing that could be worse is if there are 5 rogues on the other team as well, in that case the game consists of both efcs dying to multiple rogues over and over.

Like I said, rogues only hurt the bracket. To make matters worse, most of them have no idea what they are doing, thus furthering the problem of ruining competitive games :)
 
It is not a continuous problem because people in 19s use the same "idiotic" solutions over and over, the last time that this problem occurred was when there was a warsong gulch que bug that occurred, where 10 people on each faction would be in a solo Q, xp off, and there would be no warsong pop. Due to this bug, games stopped happening as no one could get into a warsong gulch, and 19s died for the time. When we revived them, we stressed that everyone solo Q, as that helped more warsongs pop.
Better gear that shaman quick :D

Now you are putting thoughts in my head lmao. I never said that rogues were FOTM and overpowered. However, I did say that "rogues are the most detrimental class to any low level bracket." In case you need some further explanation of that, it is due to the fact that if your team consists of 5 rogues, it is going to be an awful game of being contained for you, because you will have absolutely no mid presence, get steamrolled in mid, be pushed back to your graveyard, while your rogues stealth out and try to 5v10 the rest of the warsong, or just gank people randomly in mid while the efc caps three flags on you. The only thing that could be worse is if there are 5 rogues on the other team as well, in that case the game consists of both efcs dying to multiple rogues over and over.

Like I said, rogues only hurt the bracket. To make matters worse, most of them have no idea what they are doing, thus furthering the problem of ruining competitive games :)

Again you keep speaking from a pug/everybody solo Q mentality. Like people solo Qing is gonna prevent 5 rogues from entering a bg. 5 rogues can be detrimental to both sides, can also own the next team if coordinated. So when you say detrimental it can have meanings on both sides...vague statement. This argument is childish and a waste of my time. When Saturday comes, you do you and I'll do me....I have my shit planned out with more than enough people and anyone is welcomed to join. If you wanna solo Q.. fine, I'll be too busy organizing groups on both factions and BGing with the people who put work into this, not people who come in last minute and try to change shit for their own opinion, I've been around a long time and the things I do work.
 
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group ques are what killed the bracket back in cata. nothing like a premade team in vent on one side vs a pug on the other. ill be in que for a while if it doesnt pop it doesnt pop.
 
Again you keep speaking from a pug/everybody solo Q mentality. Like people solo Qing is gonna prevent 5 rogues from entering a bg. 5 rogues can be detrimental to both sides, can also own the next team if coordinated. So when you say detrimental it can have meanings on both sides...vague statement. This argument is childish and a waste of my time. When Saturday comes, you do you and I'll do me....I have my shit planned out with more than enough people and anyone is welcomed to join. If you wanna solo Q.. fine, I'll be too busy organizing groups on both factions and BGing with the people who put work into this, not people who come in last minute and try to change shit for their own opinion, I've been around a long time and the things I do work.
Great attitude from an up and coming community leader :(
I guarantee any 5man premade of yours will get steamrolled by a 10 man opposition, if the 10 man opposition has a solid mid comp, and you have 5 lost rogues wandering around mid and opening randomly, at awful times with no sense of map positioning whatsoever :p
The idea is to discourage people from playing classes that detract from the quality of games, such as excessive stealthies, like rogues and druids.

Edit: group queuing still causes the problem where the if 8 people are in Que, + a 5 man group, that faction will not get a pop because the entire 5 man wont get the pop, so nothing will happen.
 
Great attitude from an up and coming community leader :(
I guarantee any 5man premade of yours will get steamrolled by a 10 man opposition, if the 10 man opposition has a solid mid comp, and you have 5 lost rogues wandering around mid and opening randomly, at awful times with no sense of map positioning whatsoever :p
The idea is to discourage people from playing classes that detract from the quality of games, such as excessive stealthies, like rogues and druids.

Edit: group queuing still causes the problem where the if 8 people are in Que, + a 5 man group, that faction will not get a pop because the entire 5 man wont get the pop, so nothing will happen.

Up and coming community leader?.....I have never put that label on myself....I just plan stuff and organize it. Your acting like a child who can't have his way right now and you need to stop. You don't like how I do things, post it somewhere else. You have a better way to do things, do it somewhere else. Everyone who know me knows how I operate and do things, fairly and balanced. You don't know me and I don't know you, you just assume and question. Where were you when guilds were recruiting 39s or scheduling arenas ?, where were you when talks about premades were happening? Not anywhere around 39s. But now you want to come in last minute and question everything, it doesn't work like that.
Q in groups, why? because I have enough people ready to make it happen, to have multiple bgs running at the same time. I am in constant contact with most of the active 39 community. I do agree with one aspect of everything you had to say and that is the system doesn't work all that well for people who want to solo Q. Thats why there is a btag thread and guild recruitment threads. This is a planned event, not some random show up when you can, Q when you can event. Groups and guild leaders are ready, people have made alliance and horde toons for balance, people have made multiple toons for balance. I'm not an idiot who runs things like the last couple of revivals, my way works and my versatility to change ideas and strategies on the spot and adapt to possible problems..works!
Your just someone who showed up last minute and has his/her own opinion and doesn't know how to communicate properly to align themselves with the people planning this event to properly have your opinion projected. Just stay and question everything, I've dealt with people like you before, logic doesn't agree with you. This will be my last response to your posts, you have your own ideas and plans. Jump in vent or mumble lets discuss it like adults not children (take that as an invitation), otherwise if your just gonna stay here and hide and just question everything, I have nothing further to say to you.
 
Great attitude from an up and coming community leader :(

Pro-tip, if you're hostile to people, they get defensive and won't want to listen to you. It's the same shit you pulled with Myrm in the thread over double elim rules, you're attacking him mostly for reasons you're making up yourself. Take a step back and actually try to have a discussion instead of making an argument out of everything. You both obviously want the bracket to succeed, no reason to work against each other.


This argument is childish and a waste of my time. When Saturday comes, you do you and I'll do me....I have my shit planned out with more than enough people and anyone is welcomed to join. If you wanna solo Q.. fine, I'll be too busy organizing groups on both factions and BGing with the people who put work into this, not people who come in last minute and try to change shit for their own opinion, I've been around a long time and the things I do work.

You're welcome to do things how you'd like to and the work you've put in will be appreciated when games get going, some people are just offering advice based on their experience with the bracket. It's worth keeping an open mind and listening.
 
Up and coming community leader?.....I have never put that label on myself....I just plan stuff and organize it. Your acting like a child who can't have his way right now and you need to stop. You don't like how I do things, post it somewhere else. You have a better way to do things, do it somewhere else. Everyone who know me knows how I operate and do things, fairly and balanced. You don't know me and I don't know you, you just assume and question. Where were you when guilds were recruiting 39s or scheduling arenas ?, where were you when talks about premades were happening? Not anywhere around 39s. But now you want to come in last minute and question everything, it doesn't work like that.
Q in groups, why? because I have enough people ready to make it happen, to have multiple bgs running at the same time. I am in constant contact with most of the active 39 community. I do agree with one aspect of everything you had to say and that is the system doesn't work all that well for people who want to solo Q. Thats why there is a btag thread and guild recruitment threads. This is a planned event, not some random show up when you can, Q when you can event. Groups and guild leaders are ready, people have made alliance and horde toons for balance, people have made multiple toons for balance. I'm not an idiot who runs things like the last couple of revivals, my way works and my versatility to change ideas and strategies on the spot and adapt to possible problems..works!
Your just someone who showed up last minute and has his/her own opinion and doesn't know how to communicate properly to align themselves with the people planning this event to properly have your opinion projected. Just stay and question everything, I've dealt with people like you before, logic doesn't agree with you. This will be my last response to your posts, you have your own ideas and plans. Jump in vent or mumble lets discuss it like adults not children (take that as an invitation), otherwise if your just gonna stay here and hide and just question everything, I have nothing further to say to you.

1. I'm in New Hampshire on vacation at the moment, ask [MENTION=15498]Tiptoe[/MENTION] or anyone from 19s.
2. I have no problem talking this over on curse or something, except that I am out if town.
3. Where was I while this was being planned? Working as a staff member for a youth camp.

I am sorry that you dislike my suggestions, I am just trying to explain a que bug that was fixed by solo queuing in the last 19 Twink revival.
 
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Pro-tip, if you're hostile to people, they get defensive and won't want to listen to you. It's the same shit you pulled with Myrm in the thread over double elim rules, you're attacking him mostly for reasons you're making up yourself. Take a step back and actually try to have a discussion instead of making an argument out of everything. You both obviously want the bracket to succeed, no reason to work against each other.




You're welcome to do things how you'd like to and the work you've put in will be appreciated when games get going, some people are just offering advice based on their experience with the bracket. It's worth keeping an open mind and listening.

I have a very open mind, but some people just don't know how to have a open dialogue. They just question and immediately start attacking....I have already stated that if push comes to shove, solo Qing will definitely be an option. But yet this person feels the need to argue....
 
Pro-tip, if you're hostile to people, they get defensive and won't want to listen to you. It's the same shit you pulled with Myrm in the thread over double elim rules, you're attacking him mostly for reasons you're making up yourself. Take a step back and actually try to have a discussion instead of making an argument out of everything. You both obviously want the bracket to succeed, no reason to work against each other.




You're welcome to do things how you'd like to and the work you've put in will be appreciated when games get going, some people are just offering advice based on their experience with the bracket. It's worth keeping an open mind and listening.

I suggested that he not queue his rogue in his Sig, as they decrease the quality of games. It was a very honest assumption, as with three days till the start of games (for an event that has been planned for awhile) most players have the characters that they will be playing on geared and bis. He got defensive, counterattacked, and went downhill from there.

Don't bring the "discussion" with myrm into this lol. I can't help it if someone is too stubborn to see that they are blatantly incorrect :D
 
I suggested that he not queue his rogue in his Sig, as they decrease the quality of games. It was a very honest assumption, as with three days till the start of games (for an event that has been planned for awhile) most players have the characters that they will be playing on geared and bis. He got defensive, counterattacked, and went downhill from there.

edit: [MENTION=26098]paynefull[/MENTION], I'm not sure if you are just hypocritical or what, but you say you want good games, yet your only 39 twink is a rogue......... RIP logic bois

What a pleasant "suggestion", I'm shocked that he got defensive :rolleyes:

Even if you had a good point in there somewhere, it seems like you're actively trying to get him to not listen to you. It'd be one thing if you were trolling, but I really don't think you are. Arguments are fine (and fun!), but life is more enjoyable if you don't go looking for reasons to fight with people who want the same thing as you. Why be so negative to someone who's obviously trying to help the bracket?
 
What a pleasant "suggestion", I'm shocked that he got defensive :rolleyes:

Even if you had a good point in there somewhere, it seems like you're actively trying to get him to not listen to you. It'd be one thing if you were trolling, but I really don't think you are. Arguments are fine (and fun!), but life is more enjoyable if you don't go looking for reasons to fight with people who want the same thing as you. Why be so negative to someone who's obviously trying to help the bracket?

We were discussing "class balance with premade groups", and I thought that he was being a bit selfish by queuing a rogue, when he could be playing a healer, fc, or other nonstealth dps class that would be healthy for the bracket. I probably could have been a bit nicer about it, but I was just calling a spade a spade.
 
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