39 priests.

Heofonum said:
Well, yeah, I understand that instant casts will only work alot better on the weaklings. I'm thinking of instant casts + flash heal type situations.



What my strat, as I like to think anyways, turns more towards is the wear and tear of people, not instant or burst damage. Flash heals coinciding with dots and shields. Be a more of a supportive, back-in-the-shadows working priest instead of just standing out there, hoping I can get off a greater heal or holy fire spell when the timing is critical.



What I was hoping for is putting a priest out there that shines through long term battles (i.e. turtles and getting that FC through alot of twinks in mid), instead of running out of mana due to high end spells. Keeping instants on them with a few flash heals and shields; along with dots speared throughout on the critical opposing players; that would make that FC or single/double target last through most situations. Having your priest go OOM in the middle of a fight is a big bummer, simply because they didn't have the necessary talents to reduce mana costs where it was needed or the equipment to keep their mana/hp up.



As I'm reading what I write, to me it makes sense. I'm trying to put myself out there in your shoes, and I'm not sure if I'm getting my point across. Does what I say make sense? Or is it a failed idea, do you think? I'd love to know before I make a set plan, and get my equipment before I ding up too much to have to re-roll. >.<
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I wouldn't worry too much about dinging, since you should be getting all the quest reward gear before 39 anyway.



This can work, but I think it would be situational. However, if you're going to focus on instants + flash heals, I don't see how that's much different from any other priest, except that you'll be trying to rely on those instants as much as possible, which most good priests do anyway... (ie, no one should be using a slower heal than flash heal unless they seriously are fine).



Your reference to keeping up an FC through a midfield full of twinks confuses me. If the FC has multiple twinks on him, instants from a single healer will not keep him up. You will have to use everything you have to keep him up, and will probably be oom as fast as is possible. If you're talking about instants so that you can stay mobile and keep up with the FC, that's understandable.



Maybe it would be better if I just critiqued your talent build.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=bAh0hhxxZc



Ok, so as you said, it's focused on maximizing the efficiency of instant casts, so your renew will tick for a ridiculously high amount, and your PWS will be a bit more effective. Unfortunately, PWS is still going to be your least efficient spell, so I'm not sure if tacking on another 15% effect to it is really worth it when you want efficiency. What I'm surprised that you didn't get was Absolution, since dispel, more than renew, should be your bread and butter instant. Either way, I'd get Inner Focus, it's a very good investment of a single talent point.



You can get by without Healing Focus these days, though I don't recommend it. I think if I was trying to max out efficiency and effectiveness with instants, I'd go with this:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=bAh0zILxZc



But if I was going to focus on only using renew to heal, I'd drop 2 points from Mental Agility for Focused Power, since you're going to have issues with healing output a lot more than with mana longevity. As for gear, I'm not quite sure yet what would work. You need high spell power to keep up with dps, but you need high int to keep casting for a long time, and if you're going to be spending time outside of the FSR, you'll want spirit. /shrug maybe just a balanced build is the way to go.
 
Heofonum said:
@ Useabandage



I'm curious about the Disc set-up you have.



Why do you not have Magi or Lich for your chest? And why not the umbral crystal for your neck, or the bloodband bracers for the wrists?



Also, on your talent spec. It seems your build is more suited for Arena fighting than on actual battlegrounds. Wouldn't it be best to put talents for an instant cast build, http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=bAh0hhxxZc, like this?



I'm not knocking on your build or anything. I'm just trying to find a talent set/gear build better suited to how I gameplay. I would love the input.
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12/12 chest is better than robe of the lich imo, priests have no need for crit. I perfer stats over +healing for the most part, even if I could do the neck quest chances are I would keep my current one. I have a pair of bloodband bracers in my bank, I have been looking for months for a +12 stam enchant and cant find it anywhere QQ.



As for talents in my eyes priests are more of a support class rather than strictly healing which I leave to the droods and holy pallies in my guild. Imp mana burn is amazing for putting your opponents healers on the defensive. I pick up the +15% mana talent because lets face it having 4k mana unbuffed w/ the wsg staff+30int is amazing for fc'ing as a priest. It is also pretty funny watching a hunter viper sting you with that much mana and 150 mana regen while not casting, by the time the sting is done you are still at like 3700 mana rofl. I am also a huge fan of imp spirit, its an amazing buff to pick up if you are always running in a premade, 17 extra spell power for the entire raid is a hell of a buff.



The way I look at full disc vs disc/holy is its such a waste to pick up desperate prayer. I can do way way way more things with 15% extra mana than I can do with a heal I can only use on myself, if desperate prayer was able to be used on someone else I would def pick it up.
 
Actually, the thing I really enjoy about holy is the 1.5 sec cast holy fire. >.>



And as someone who ends up playing the tank, especially in arena, I macroed together desperate prayer and inner focus. It is very rare when I run out of mana before dying, thus I choose greater survivability over greater mana efficiency. When I run out, I switch to my spirit set.



I do wish I could get divine spirit though. We've got a lot of priests in guild now, so we'll probably just figure out soon who wants to go full disc (almost everyone is 19/11-based, for the extra burst). It's really just about getting a balance between extra dps, mana burn, survivability, and efficiency. And depending on your play style, and how much the other team wants you dead, your balance will be different from others.
 
From recent experience, shadow on priests in the 39 bracket is rather poor comapred to the DPS ability of Holy. Play style and certain matchups change only very slightly and the build switches some of the utility of shadow (silence and some cc) for a lot better survivability and the ability to better pocket heal teammates.



At least as far as solo q'ing Holy > Shadow for damage output and fun and even in premade applications it can be a boon depending on your team makeup and play style.



As far as mana burn is considered though....thats why I have good hunters on my team.



And as my guild is the #1 target for horde in our battlegroup I generally find I need Desperate Prayer to handle the seemingly endless supply of rogues and hunters looking for me ;p Maybe I am just too used to having it as my priest is a human and I used to always have it anyways.



@ Weiland



your armor may be 1337 but my holy crit chance is 13.37% pew pew
 
perhaps your bg is simply consisting of different class makeups? Not often are there classes activly running around taking poisons off of others...And considering that more often than not we are talking about 2 or 3 or more hunters stinging it does a mighty fine job.



there is no way you can replace any skill with any one other skill, to say that is just ignorant, no offense or anything.



To be honest we could probably argue the pros and cons of different types of mana draining to death..my original point remains the same...If I am rolling around Holy DPS then mana burn is a waste of time, especially if I have hunters with me who are already stinging the target. So when I am playing with a handful of good hunters from my guild and I can be fairly certain that the opposing team will have minimal cleansing then why should I waste spec points going into disc primarily for mana burn. The ability to spike targets for 2k+ more than makes up for not having mana burn imo...
 
Alteffour said:
perhaps your bg is simply consisting of different class makeups? Not often are there classes activly running around taking poisons off of others...And considering that more often than not we are talking about 2 or 3 or more hunters stinging it does a mighty fine job.



there is no way you can replace any skill with any one other skill, to say that is just ignorant, no offense or anything.



To be honest we could probably argue the pros and cons of different types of mana draining to death..my original point remains the same...If I am rolling around Holy DPS then mana burn is a waste of time, especially if I have hunters with me who are already stinging the target. So when I am playing with a handful of good hunters from my guild and I can be fairly certain that the opposing team will have minimal cleansing then why should I waste spec points going into disc primarily for mana burn. The ability to spike targets for 2k+ more than makes up for not having mana burn imo...
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im not really sure why you would be mana burning if you are holy dps, i never stated that you should be. I'm simply saying you cannot replace mana burn with viper sting, any semi competent premade will dispel that shiz after the 1st tick.



I'm sure you know how to play your class just fine and hey i think its great you can dps as holy, but you missed the point I was making. Disc brings a lot mroe utility to a premade, especially since its cool now to have an arcane fc mage. We can shut down most mages in my guild for the sole fact of having a disc priest on o w/ imp mana burn, it changes the pace of the game so much and forces the enemys defense so be much mroe protective thus leading to more chances of a mistake.



Yes, we can argue the pro's and con's all day, but you cannot replace imp mana burn with viper sting, plain and simple.
 
Bandage, what're your thoughts on 30 points in disc for Enlightenment? I've been seeing a few priests here and there with it, and was thinking of trying it out, but I figured I'd look for some more input before spending money.



My guess is that they're thinking 5% spell haste is nice, particularly for mana burn. That, or they really want 50-100 more hp? Just doesn't quite seem worth losing the pushback resistance of Healing Focus unless you're literally never casting heals. >.<
 
Jadyn said:
Bandage, what're your thoughts on 30 points in disc for Enlightenment? I've been seeing a few priests here and there with it, and was thinking of trying it out, but I figured I'd look for some more input before spending money.



My guess is that they're thinking 5% spell haste is nice, particularly for mana burn. That, or they really want 50-100 more hp? Just doesn't quite seem worth losing the pushback resistance of Healing Focus unless you're literally never casting heals. >.<
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i personally dont have healing focus, only thing generally givimg me trouble w/ pushback is hunters pets, our dps are unbelievably good at peeling melee off the healers. I also rely on getting pws up on myself, but for the most part I really dont cast a lot, if you ever see the meters in bg charts I dont do massive healing, I rely on dispel, pws, and renew to keep my targets up.



As for enlightenment you cant have imp spirit or imp renew w/ it, with my current spirit(146), i personally would pick up the same amount of spirit. I would lose 17 spell power from imp spirit though. Overall, I think the spirit+imp spirit buff would weigh out better simply because it effects more than just you. Although, it would be fun to try out along w/ the spell haste heirloom trinket.



Personally, I think its a talent thats suppose to couple w/ power infusion. tldr, imp spirit+2 points in imp renew>5% spell haste and hp.
 
Well, you could drop points from Mental Strength, though that's not very appetizing, good point. =/



I wouldn't worry about the spirit buff if another priest in my guild had it, but we're all 19/11/0 atm. I may end up going holy dps or heavy disc just to get a little more versatility. >.<
 
As for spirit gear: Int does the job nearly as well. Which means that it's not worth getting the 20 Spi enchant as the 30 Int enchant will give you even more mana regen. From what i have seen directly on my char it looks like 1 Int gives 80% of the mana regen 1 Spi would give.



As for "on the fly" healing with very few non instant casts: My Disc Priest (look at the link on the left side) works very well for that. A shield and a Renew alone save the target from about 1800 dmg. The dps is also very good. The 2 dots and Holy Fire and Mindblast do way over 2000 dmg.
 
No Mojo said:
As for spirit gear: Int does the job nearly as well. Which means that it's not worth getting the 20 Spi enchant as the 30 Int enchant will give you even more mana regen. From what i have seen directly on my char it looks like 1 Int gives 80% of the mana regen 1 Spi would give.



As for "on the fly" healing with very few non instant casts: My Disc Priest (look at the link on the left side) works very well for that. A shield and a Renew alone save the target from about 1800 dmg. The dps is also very good. The 2 dots and Holy Fire and Mindblast do way over 2000 dmg.
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1 int being 80% of the regen of 1 spi doesn't sound right. Wowwiki states that the formula is:

MP5 = 5 * (0.001 + sqrt(Int) * Spirit * Base_Regen) rounded up



That would leave spirit as much more important than int still. When I switch to my spirit staff as opposed to my int staff, I gain a much greater bonus to regen, so I'm not quite sure what you're experiencing.
 
As for spirit gear: Int does the job nearly as well. Which means that it's not worth getting the 20 Spi enchant as the 30 Int enchant will give you even more mana regen. From what i have seen directly on my char it looks like 1 Int gives 80% of the mana regen 1 Spi would give.

As for "on the fly" healing with very few non instant casts: My Disc Priest (look at the link on the left side) works very well for that. A shield and a Renew alone save the target from about 1800 dmg. The dps is also very good. The 2 dots and Holy Fire and Mindblast do way over 2000 dmg.
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um, i think you are missing the point about spirit, i highly doubt anyone is going to enchant their weapon w/ + spirit or pick up and spirit chants in general. Overall there isnt a lot of spirit you can pick up with gear compared to int.



The point of having so much spirit is so I can pws+renew my target and get out of the 5 sec casting rule and regen as much mana as possible, I am talking about mp5 while not casting, which int has no correlation to.
 
useabandage said:
I am talking about mp5 while not casting, which int has no correlation to.
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Just tested it:



Initial numbers:

136 mp5 while not casting

41 mp5 while casting



Switching my mace with 30 int enchant to the same mace with 40 spell enchant:

124 mp5 while not casting

37 mp5 while casting

So that's 0,4 mp5 ooc for each int



Back to 30 int mace but taking away 8 spi:

129 mp5 while not casting

38 mp5 while casting

So it's like 0,9 mp5 per spi



Hm, in my earlier tests i got some different numbers, i think the formula for int -> mp5 is not linear. Anyway, int does in fact influence your out of combat mp5. That or the char screen shows wrong numbers.
 
It isn't linear, and int does affect your mp5 whether casting or not. The difference is that spirit affects it a lot more unless you've got really wierd overall stats. It's still not such a big deal that a priest is gimp without a spirit weapon, but it is enough that you'll gain some benefit from switching to one in long fights.
 
Jadyn said:
It isn't linear, and int does affect your mp5 whether casting or not. The difference is that spirit affects it a lot more unless you've got really wierd overall stats. It's still not such a big deal that a priest is gimp without a spirit weapon, but it is enough that you'll gain some benefit from switching to one in long fights.
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Well i was being a little confusing here, my point was that getting a 20 spi enchant is not really worth it if you can get a 30 Int enchant. And maybe just pointing out that Int gives mp5 now. It didn't before the patch, did it? well it was news to me in any case :)
 
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