elesian
OG
Hi Xil, have time to respond to your key points now. Firstly I would like to point out that I have played 29 Priest extensively, and 60 priest to some degree.
As a Rogue It becomes evident very quickly If a Priest is using Improved Inner Fire and the glyph. Rogues at 39 are stun lock power houses, and I can invariably keep my Priest alive in all but the most bursty conditions. The only situations where my Priest cannot stay alive is from a) The Rogue/Warrior duel melee team, and b) Hunters using rapid fire on Aimed Shot and c) Rogue/Mage, If I am controlled. Purge/Dispel healers are usually under so much pressure that they cannot afford to dispel my Priest, and unless it is a PR mirror, we have enough control to dictate the course of the battle. Clearly I am talking about 2's only. In 3's/5's the Priest cannot survive alone (regardless of talents or glyphs) and the onus is very much on the team mates.
Armour does not scale linearly, although rogues negate 312 of this armour, negating 312 armour at a higher base armour level, will have less of an effect than negating at a lower level. I know you have a fairly mathematical background Xil, but for those who are reading this and don't, consider File:Armor.JPG - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft. Look at the 'steepness' of the curve, or the gradient at the farthest part east of the origin, along the horizontal axis, and imagine taking off a fixed quantity of 'armour' - the damage change reduction is very little, now consider it at the origin, and look at how much more dramatic the same reduction has on damage mitigation.
I am unsure of the precedence WoW applies to the glyph and the talent, but I am going to guess the glyph adds 50% to the base spell, and then a 1.45 multiplier on the talents. This would bring us up from 720 armour and 20 charges to 1556 armour and 32 charges. What does this mean in PvP at 39?
I have stated the three primary dangers which can burst my Priest, and where there is very little I can do about it, if I don't get good control early on. All but one are physical, and invariably are Hunter/Warrior/Rogue. Working with a static such as 'approximately 6%' does not tell us the whole truth. What we need to consider are chain crits, and the amount of damage negated on each blow. Consider a BAR arms warrior with 650AP with BS, with a median damage swing of 320 on a paper doll, and In berserker stance a crit rate of 30%. The probability of two or more consecutive crits out of 3 attacks is 22%. This is anywhere between 1280-1920 unmitigated damage, before bleeds or trauma.
Untalented and unglyphed a well geared Priest will have 1250 armour which is 25% reduction. Talented and Glyphed the same Priest will have 2100 armour, or a 36% reduction. So in a sequence of three attacks, with a fairly high probability of 22% for 2 or more consecutive crits, the median damage reduction will be 320-480 unspecced, and 460-692 specced. These are not even top-end figures, or take into account procs. The more physical damage the Priest is under the more Improved Inner Fire can benefit him/her, not to mention the increased number of charges. The last thing you want to happen Is to drop from mail quality resistance to cloth whilst taking extreme physical burst. With rogues, the effect is accentuated even more for the reasoning above.
I'm sold on the IPWS argument, It's a negligible amount of reduction. Mental Strength is amazing, It's not uncommon for Priests to be rolling in around 4500 mana. I'm also sold on the dispel glyph over the PWS glyph – my point on the GCD was, once the PWS has been put on, the healing from it can ONLY come from damage. With dispel you might be clearing a CC/Immobilizing effect, which is consuming a GCD and may/may not be replacing health.
The point of Soul warding is allow you to replace PWS every GCD. Without this point you are left with an internal 4 second CD on it – if you and your partner needed to activate both shields at the same time, there will be a period of 4 seconds, untalented, before you can refresh BOTH of you. The reduced mana costs make this essential for 1 point.
You can vanish inside of any form of damage absorption, including AGM, AB trinket and PWS.
Shielding and renewing IS a big part of the Priests usefulness. Ironically it's relying on these abilities against other purgers/dispellers, that loses games. I am not comfortable relying on a 30% chance to not get my HoT dispelled, and under burst, getting the HoT dispelled under a double dispel with 91% certainty in 2 seconds. Give me a direct heal please. A 600HP heal topping me back up, is a 600HP heal no matter what happens. Successive probabilities means that it's almost certain, or practically certain, that my HoT will be dispelled before it has run anywhere near its course. What we are left with is a very expensive 'direct heal' which healed for two ticks, had a very poor cost/effect ratio, and got me killed.
I do agree on Improved Mana burn however, as stated in my earlier post, I think this is really dependant on your arena partner, and IF there are not other talents that are more beneficial to that setup. In the majority of cases, IMB must be taken, I am not refuting that. Please read my converse argument again.
It's pretty clear to me that me and Alteffour approach 'discussions' on a different intellectual level. I won't say much more on that note.
Talking about FoTM is ridiculous. New ideas of thinking evolve, and people try new builds with different gear optimizations. It could be that the build is a very good build, but has been showcased by people who cannot demonstrate its advantages, or it could just be very bad. For instance, right now, I'm working on some data with Mongoose, and I'm hoping that the advantages will be so clear cut, that every rogue will be running duel Mongoose.
As a Rogue It becomes evident very quickly If a Priest is using Improved Inner Fire and the glyph. Rogues at 39 are stun lock power houses, and I can invariably keep my Priest alive in all but the most bursty conditions. The only situations where my Priest cannot stay alive is from a) The Rogue/Warrior duel melee team, and b) Hunters using rapid fire on Aimed Shot and c) Rogue/Mage, If I am controlled. Purge/Dispel healers are usually under so much pressure that they cannot afford to dispel my Priest, and unless it is a PR mirror, we have enough control to dictate the course of the battle. Clearly I am talking about 2's only. In 3's/5's the Priest cannot survive alone (regardless of talents or glyphs) and the onus is very much on the team mates.
Armour does not scale linearly, although rogues negate 312 of this armour, negating 312 armour at a higher base armour level, will have less of an effect than negating at a lower level. I know you have a fairly mathematical background Xil, but for those who are reading this and don't, consider File:Armor.JPG - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft. Look at the 'steepness' of the curve, or the gradient at the farthest part east of the origin, along the horizontal axis, and imagine taking off a fixed quantity of 'armour' - the damage change reduction is very little, now consider it at the origin, and look at how much more dramatic the same reduction has on damage mitigation.
I am unsure of the precedence WoW applies to the glyph and the talent, but I am going to guess the glyph adds 50% to the base spell, and then a 1.45 multiplier on the talents. This would bring us up from 720 armour and 20 charges to 1556 armour and 32 charges. What does this mean in PvP at 39?
I have stated the three primary dangers which can burst my Priest, and where there is very little I can do about it, if I don't get good control early on. All but one are physical, and invariably are Hunter/Warrior/Rogue. Working with a static such as 'approximately 6%' does not tell us the whole truth. What we need to consider are chain crits, and the amount of damage negated on each blow. Consider a BAR arms warrior with 650AP with BS, with a median damage swing of 320 on a paper doll, and In berserker stance a crit rate of 30%. The probability of two or more consecutive crits out of 3 attacks is 22%. This is anywhere between 1280-1920 unmitigated damage, before bleeds or trauma.
Untalented and unglyphed a well geared Priest will have 1250 armour which is 25% reduction. Talented and Glyphed the same Priest will have 2100 armour, or a 36% reduction. So in a sequence of three attacks, with a fairly high probability of 22% for 2 or more consecutive crits, the median damage reduction will be 320-480 unspecced, and 460-692 specced. These are not even top-end figures, or take into account procs. The more physical damage the Priest is under the more Improved Inner Fire can benefit him/her, not to mention the increased number of charges. The last thing you want to happen Is to drop from mail quality resistance to cloth whilst taking extreme physical burst. With rogues, the effect is accentuated even more for the reasoning above.
I'm sold on the IPWS argument, It's a negligible amount of reduction. Mental Strength is amazing, It's not uncommon for Priests to be rolling in around 4500 mana. I'm also sold on the dispel glyph over the PWS glyph – my point on the GCD was, once the PWS has been put on, the healing from it can ONLY come from damage. With dispel you might be clearing a CC/Immobilizing effect, which is consuming a GCD and may/may not be replacing health.
The point of Soul warding is allow you to replace PWS every GCD. Without this point you are left with an internal 4 second CD on it – if you and your partner needed to activate both shields at the same time, there will be a period of 4 seconds, untalented, before you can refresh BOTH of you. The reduced mana costs make this essential for 1 point.
You can vanish inside of any form of damage absorption, including AGM, AB trinket and PWS.
Shielding and renewing IS a big part of the Priests usefulness. Ironically it's relying on these abilities against other purgers/dispellers, that loses games. I am not comfortable relying on a 30% chance to not get my HoT dispelled, and under burst, getting the HoT dispelled under a double dispel with 91% certainty in 2 seconds. Give me a direct heal please. A 600HP heal topping me back up, is a 600HP heal no matter what happens. Successive probabilities means that it's almost certain, or practically certain, that my HoT will be dispelled before it has run anywhere near its course. What we are left with is a very expensive 'direct heal' which healed for two ticks, had a very poor cost/effect ratio, and got me killed.
I do agree on Improved Mana burn however, as stated in my earlier post, I think this is really dependant on your arena partner, and IF there are not other talents that are more beneficial to that setup. In the majority of cases, IMB must be taken, I am not refuting that. Please read my converse argument again.
It's pretty clear to me that me and Alteffour approach 'discussions' on a different intellectual level. I won't say much more on that note.
Talking about FoTM is ridiculous. New ideas of thinking evolve, and people try new builds with different gear optimizations. It could be that the build is a very good build, but has been showcased by people who cannot demonstrate its advantages, or it could just be very bad. For instance, right now, I'm working on some data with Mongoose, and I'm hoping that the advantages will be so clear cut, that every rogue will be running duel Mongoose.
