39 Hpal Question

Zttrujillo

Zttrujillo

Legend
Despite playing this game since it's inception, I have not once touched paladin outside of extremely casual play in Legion (which has no resemblance to Classic). I'm currently leveling one up but I'm unsure on which direction to go regarding spec and stat priority. I was wondering if some people had suggestions or insight?

Currently, this is my idea for the spec. My main conflict is whether Concentration is worth spec'ing into. The talent seems situational at best for keeping choke points active against stealth. Maybe I'm undervaluing that alone? I would most likely sacrifice a point out of Improved Blessing of Wisdom since losing 2 mp5 seems minuscule.

https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-calc/paladin/05503002521-0502

After talking to so other twinks in the bracket, it seems having a healthy amount of mp5 is the preferred route. I lean more towards stats with a decent amount +healing on my Druid for my play style and my mana pool at first glance (while may not be accurate on sixtyupgrades?) seems low. However, if by nature, Hpal is mana efficient between using different spell ranks maybe this isn't that big of a deal? Here is my current main gear build:

https://sixtyupgrades.com/set/qzNeGCHLBcXYDHqgj5M7Jq

Any insight, suggestions, and/or help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!
 
Zttrujillo said:
Despite playing this game since it's inception, I have not once touched paladin outside of extremely casual play in Legion (which has no resemblance to Classic). I'm currently leveling one up but I'm unsure on which direction to go regarding spec and stat priority. I was wondering if some people had suggestions or insight?

Currently, this is my idea for the spec. My main conflict is whether Concentration is worth spec'ing into. The talent seems situational at best for keeping choke points active against stealth. Maybe I'm undervaluing that alone? I would most likely sacrifice a point out of Improved Blessing of Wisdom since losing 2 mp5 seems minuscule.

https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-calc/paladin/05503002521-0502

After talking to so other twinks in the bracket, it seems having a healthy amount of mp5 is the preferred route. I lean more towards stats with a decent amount +healing on my Druid for my play style and my mana pool at first glance (while may not be accurate on sixtyupgrades?) seems low. However, if by nature, Hpal is mana efficient between using different spell ranks maybe this isn't that big of a deal? Here is my current main gear build:

https://sixtyupgrades.com/set/qzNeGCHLBcXYDHqgj5M7Jq

Any insight, suggestions, and/or help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
Only I'm alloud to use Green Lens of Concentration
 
Paladins are quite mana efficient.

I don't have a 39 Hpally twink, but I do have a max level one, and +healing/int is generally preferred over mp5 unless it's a large amount. You could more than double your +healing over what you currently have in the 39 bracket, which would allow you to use a lower rank of Flash of Light that's far more mana efficient. Due to the higher +healing, it would heal for roughly the same and you'd be spending much less mana. Not to mention that in an "oh shit" scenario, that mp5 isn't going to save you.

Just to give some real world numbers, we can actually calculate average healing amounts at different +healing levels to see the efficiency.

Base Healing Stats for Flash of Light
  • Rank 1 FoL Avg Base Heal: 87
  • Rank 1 FoL Mana Cost: 35
  • Rank 2 FoL Avg Base Heal: 134
  • Rank 2 FoL Mana Cost: 50
  • Rank 3 FoL Avg Base Heal: 200
  • Rank 3 FoL Mana Cost: 70
FoL Spell Coefficient (All Ranks): 42.85%

For calculating average amount healed (assuming no crits), we can use the following formula:
Avg Amt Healed = Avg Base Healing + (Plus Healing * Spell coefficient)

With 100 +healing (roughly equivalent to your build)
  • Rank 1 Avg Amount Healed: 130
  • Rank 2 Avg Amount Healed: 177
  • Rank 3 Avg Amount Healed: 242
With 200 +healing (roughly equivalent to a balanced +healing/stam/int/armor build)
  • Rank 1 Avg Amount Healed: 173
  • Rank 2 Avg Amount Healed: 219
  • Rank 3 Avg Amount Healed: 285
With 250 +healing (roughly equivalent to a heavy +healing build)
  • Rank 1 Avg Amount Healed: 194
  • Rank 2 Avg Amount Healed: 241
  • Rank 3 Avg Amount Healed: 307
So a paladin with 200 +healing is healing about as much with a 35 mana rank 1 flash of light as a paladin with 100 +healing is with a 50 mana rank 2 . A paladin with 250 +healing is healing more with a 50 mana rank 2 than a paladin with 100 +healing is with a 70 mana rank 3.

To give a real world example, in a 30 second skirmish a paladin spamming flash heals is going to pump out 20 flash of lights spam casting. For a rank 1, that's 700 mana spent. Assuming no crits, a paladin with 100 +healing will heal around 2600, a paladin with 200 +healing will heal around 3460, and a paladin with 250 +healing will heal around 3880 damage.

Your mp5 focused build will regenerate 114 mana in that time (19 mp5 * 6), so let's say you technically "spent" about 583 and the other paladins didn't have any mp5. Given that, the healing done per mana (Healing Done / Mana Spent) is 4.45, 4.94, and 5.54 for 100, 200, and 250 +healing respectively.

Therefore, with 250 +healing, you're 25% more mana efficient than the mp5 build, and 200 +healing is about 11% more mana efficient.

For almost all scenarios, +healing is going to be far more mana efficient than mp5, in addition to allowing you to better heal through burst damage (which is going to be quite often). That's especially true in the 39 bracket due to the amount of +healing greens and relative lack of mp5.
 
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Lilich said:
Paladins are quite mana efficient.

I don't have a 39 Hpally twink, but I do have a max level one, and +healing/int is generally preferred over mp5 unless it's a large amount. You could more than double your +healing over what you currently have in the 39 bracket, which would allow you to use a lower rank of Flash of Light that's far more mana efficient. Due to the higher +healing, it would heal for roughly the same and you'd be spending much less mana. Not to mention that in an "oh shit" scenario, that mp5 isn't going to save you.

Just to give some real world numbers, we can actually calculate average healing amounts at different +healing levels to see the efficiency.

Base Healing Stats for Flash of Light
  • Rank 1 FoL Avg Base Heal: 87
  • Rank 1 FoL Mana Cost: 35
  • Rank 2 FoL Avg Base Heal: 134
  • Rank 2 FoL Mana Cost: 50
  • Rank 3 FoL Avg Base Heal: 200
  • Rank 3 FoL Mana Cost: 70
FoL Spell Coefficient (All Ranks): 42.85%

For calculating average amount healed (assuming no crits), we can use the following formula:
Avg Amt Healed = Avg Base Healing + (Plus Healing * Spell coefficient)

With 100 +healing (roughly equivalent to your build)
  • Rank 1 Avg Amount Healed: 130
  • Rank 2 Avg Amount Healed: 177
  • Rank 3 Avg Amount Healed: 242
With 200 +healing (roughly equivalent to a balanced +healing/stam/int/armor build)
  • Rank 1 Avg Amount Healed: 173
  • Rank 2 Avg Amount Healed: 219
  • Rank 3 Avg Amount Healed: 285
With 250 +healing (roughly equivalent to a heavy +healing build)
  • Rank 1 Avg Amount Healed: 194
  • Rank 2 Avg Amount Healed: 241
  • Rank 3 Avg Amount Healed: 307
So a paladin with 200 +healing is healing about as much with a 35 mana rank 1 flash of light as a paladin with 100 +healing is with a 50 mana rank 2 . A paladin with 250 +healing is healing more with a 50 mana rank 2 than a paladin with 100 +healing is with a 70 mana rank 3.

To give a real world example, in a 30 second skirmish a paladin spamming flash heals is going to pump out 20 flash of lights spam casting. For a rank 1, that's 700 mana spent. Assuming no crits, a paladin with 100 +healing will heal around 2600, a paladin with 200 +healing will heal around 3460, and a paladin with 250 +healing will heal around 3880 damage.

Your mp5 focused build will regenerate 114 mana in that time (19 mp5 * 6), so let's say you technically "spent" about 583 and the other paladins didn't have any mp5. Given that, the healing done per mana (Healing Done / Mana Spent) is 4.45, 4.94, and 5.54 for 100, 200, and 250 +healing respectively.

Therefore, with 250 +healing, you're 25% more mana efficient than the mp5 build, and 200 +healing is about 11% more mana efficient.

For almost all scenarios, +healing is going to be far more mana efficient than mp5, in addition to allowing you to better heal through burst damage (which is going to be quite often). That's especially true in the 39 bracket due to the amount of +healing greens and relative lack of mp5.
Click to expand...

Man I appreciate the time and effort put into your well thought response. This is really insightful and its appreciated. I kind of played around and choose some gear to increase my +healing while maintaining some stats. It feels a little unconventional using low level gear and cloth gear and I'm not sure how or if at all changes anything major in the whole scope of things. The mana pool still feels a bit shallow with only ~2.5k mana but maybe I need to stop comparing apples to oranges (Hpal vs Rdruid). This puts me @ 218 +healing with ~2.3k base hp and as stated, 2.5k mana.

https://sixtyupgrades.com/set/bcrdKwsh3mmV66J9tLswEw
 
Zttrujillo said:
Man I appreciate the time and effort put into your well thought response. This is really insightful and its appreciated. I kind of played around and choose some gear to increase my +healing while maintaining some stats. It feels a little unconventional using low level gear and cloth gear and I'm not sure how or if at all changes anything major in the whole scope of things. The mana pool still feels a bit shallow with only ~2.5k mana but maybe I need to stop comparing apples to oranges (Hpal vs Rdruid). This puts me @ 218 +healing with ~2.3k base hp and as stated, 2.5k mana.

https://sixtyupgrades.com/set/bcrdKwsh3mmV66J9tLswEw
Click to expand...

That set is good on health/mana/healing, I'm just worried about your defense. Armor is important as well, since you're going against a lot of melee and hunters in the 39 bracket.

Armor physical damage reduction is calculated as: Damage Reduction = Armor / (Armor + 400 + (85 * Attacker Level))

So at not even 2k armor you're at about 34% damage reduction from physical attacks. A more mail-focused build will have around 3k, which is a 45% damage reduction. That 10% damage reduction is pretty big considering the prevalence of physical damage.

Maybe something like this: https://sixtyupgrades.com/set/2s86GDwtJn3NifvinGCaBA

This build a bit of a "happy medium" between stam/intel/armor with a lot of +healing. You lose a bit of mana, but you gain almost 1000 armor (and 9% more physical damage reduction), a bit of hp, and a bit more healing. It cuts out any items that are cloth that don't have a lot of great stats to compensate for the armor loss, and focuses a bit more on healing.I subbed out the Green Tower shield for the Aegis, since I personally like the extra 250 armor and spirit over 5 stam.

You'd actually have about 264 +healing with this build. Sixtyupgrades isn't properly calculating that Ironaya's Bracers will provide 24 +healing for the healing variant. Since that's so rare, you may want to shoot for the Eagle one with +8/8 int/stam or the Bonelink +7/7 int/stam greens. It's like a 2% drop rate for the +healing variant of those bracers.

You also had a necklace that isn't available until the scourge invasion, which is quite a ways off. (Though you should definitely grab that when it comes out)
 
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The BiS list build is nearly identical to that last link. Stay away from cloth, start hunting perfect roll +healing greens asap because they are rare af.
 
Go ballsy 12/18
 
Piffin said:
16/14
https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-calc/paladin/05503102-05023103
100% get consecration
Click to expand...
Would you mind expanding on the importance of consecration? I really only see it being useful to cut off choke points from stealth. Not to say thats not impactful. Then again, the talent competition for that point really isn't anything special. Also, it doesn't seem from what's been suggested that Devine Favor is worth stacking into Holy for?
 
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@Lilich 100% agree with your opinion, by phase 5 can possibly get 374 + healing on a holy pali that is if you can get the glitch shoulder and helm enchants.
 
Zttrujillo said:
Would you mind expanding on the importance of consecration? I really only see it being useful to cut off choke points from stealth. Not to say thats not impactful. Then again, the talent competition for that point really isn't anything special. Also, it doesn't seem from what's been suggested that Devine Favor is worth stacking into Holy for?
Click to expand...

Rank 1 consecration doesn't cost a ton of mana and is very useful for getting rogues out of stealth. You can essentially block an entire area from a rogue stealthing by for 8-10 seconds with one instant cast.
 
Macro your rank 1 to cast out of combat and max rank to cast in combat I do it with all my aoes on my mages
 
ReckoningOG said:
Macro your rank 1 to cast out of combat and max rank to cast in combat I do it with all my aoes on my mages
Click to expand...
I still only use rank 1 concertation in pvp its not use for dmg really just to get stealthies out mainly
 
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