3.2 Hit capping a hunter

[WSG]

So I finally got around to looking at the actual stats of the BoA chests and comparing them to what I have now. Something occurred to me in comparing the leather (rogue) chest to the mail (hunter) chest: Hunters should pick the leather.



Here's my thought process:

-I am a big fan of looking at Item Budget Stat Points. In other words, giving up 1 point of 1 stat should give you 1 point of another stat (AP being the big exception as 1 AP = half a stat point). If one item has more stat points than another, then it is better.

-Everyone knows that Hit Rating is not only the best pound-for-pound DPS stat but it is even more important in PvP where special abilities with CDs (i.e. Conc Shot) NEED to hit. In this case, getting enough hit to cap should be given priority over getting the highest Item Budget Stat Points possible.



With that in mind, I went looking for the "cheapest" way to hit cap my hunter.



A few things I ruled out:

1) +5 Hit Rating enchant for boots. I don't know an exact number value I would place on Minor Run Speed, but it is A LOT higher than 5.

2) Any of the weapons with +hit. They don't come close to the [ITEM]Dignified Headmaster's Charge[/ITEM] or even the [ITEM]Twisted Chanter's Staff[/ITEM] for that matter.

3) [ITEM]Elixir of Minor Accuracy[/ITEM]. This is actually the BEST way to hit cap as you give up a possible 8 Agi to get 10 hit. However, this is not feasible for arena. If you play WSG only, this is the way to go, you can stop reading here.



Now, the [ITEM]Lavishly Jeweled Ring[/ITEM] is best in slot for hunters (after each faction's respective Seals). This starts us off at 2 Hit Rating. 11 is the cap, so we need 9 more. Any amount over that is (essentially) wasted.



The following is a list of possible items to get hit and the items we give up in order to equip them. The goal is to pay as little as possible:



[ITEM]Stained Shadowcraft Spaulders[/ITEM] 4 stam, 4 hit, 14 AP = 15 Stat Points.

[ITEM]Champion Herod's Shoulder[/ITEM] 5 Stam, 5 Agi, 3 Int, 10 AP = 18 Stat Points.

This trade involves giving up 3 Stat Points to increase Hit Rating by 4. Thats "paying" 1.75 Stat Points per Hit.



[ITEM]Deviate Scale Belt[/ITEM] = 14 Stat Points

[ITEM]Girdle of the Blindwatcher[/ITEM] = 15 Stat Points

Giving up 1 Stat Point to get 3 Hit Rating. Paying 1.333 Stat Points per Hit.



[item]Spidersilk Drape[/item] = 8 Stat Points

[item]Sentry Cloak[/item] = 9 Stat Points

Giving up 1 point to get 4 Hit Rating. Paying 1.25 Stat Points per Hit.



Talent: Focused Aim. Increases chance to hit by 1% ~ 2 Stat Points.

Talent: Lethal Shots. Increaces chance to crit by 1% ~ 3 Stat Points.

Taking the talent is essentially giving up 1 Stat Point to gain 2 Hit Rating. Paying 1.5 Stat Points per Hit.



3.2 BoA Rogue Chest: 10 Stam, 6 Hit, 13 AP = 22.5 Stat Points

3.2 BoA Hunter Chest: 6 Stam, 6 Agi, 4 Int, 13 AP = 22.5 Stat Points

Giving up 0 points to get 6 Hit Rating. Paying 1 Stat Point per Hit



This suggests that Hunters should take the "Rogue" Leather chest in 3.2 rather than the "Hunter" one.



With the [ITEM]Lavishly Jeweled Ring[/ITEM] and the new chest, you will be only 3 points from hit capping, which is best done with the [item]Deviate Scale Belt[/item]. Since the 4th point of Hit on the [item]Spidersilk Drape[/item] is completely wasted as over the cap, you end up only getting 7 effective Stat Points from the cloak. Compared to [item]Sentry Cloak[/item], you would be giving up 2 Stat Points to get 3 Hit which is paying 1.667 per hit.



Anyway, if any of you actually read this far, I would be surprised and I'd like to apologize in advance for the wall of text. But my reasons for posting this were:

a) Find out if any of you math buffs here see any error in either my assumptions or my calculations.

b) Hopefully stop people from wasting 40 hard earned badges on the wrong chest piece come 3.2.

 

[ArthurianKnight]

Actually, considering certain people will use resillience for survival... you'd be needing more then the real hit cap to actually hit cap against me.

but that is just me, considering many won't be using resillience at all, then it is more then likely that you are right about hit capping. but i still wonder about the whole hit capping in PVP considering that in PVP stats and skills works differently then it is against regular mobs !

 

[WSG]

Actually, considering certain people will use resillience for survival... you'd be needing more then the real hit cap to actually hit cap against me.

but that is just me, considering many won't be using resillience at all, then it is more then likely that you are right about hit capping. but i still wonder about the whole hit capping in PVP considering that in PVP stats and skills works differently then it is against regular mobs !

What in the world are you talking about.



From the patch notes:

Resilience: No longer reduces the amount of damage done by damage over time spells, but instead reduces the amount of all damage done by players by the same proportion. The other effects of resilience (reducing critical chance, critical damage and mana drain effects) have not changed.



Resilience has never affected attacker's chances to hit and it is not going to affect it in the future.



The only thing you can do to raise my hit cap is roll a Night Elf or ding 20.



And Hit Rating works exactly the same in PvP as it does in PvE. The only difference is that PvEers are usually focused on the hit cap against targets three levels higher than them (8% for 2hand/range/sword'n'board, 27% for dual wield) where as PvPers are concerned with the hit cap against targets the same level as themselves (5% for 2hand/range/sword'n'board, 24% for dual wield).

 

[darzk]

Wonderful OP.



Except, its all wrong. Or at least, its a little confusing. I see what you're trying to say, but your presentation makes it... confusing.



I dunno what you did, but you counted the hit twice. Take for example, your evaluation of the new chests.

3.2 BoA Rogue Chest: 10 Stam, 6 Hit, 13 AP = 22.5 Stat Points

3.2 BoA Hunter Chest: 6 Stam, 6 Agi, 4 Int, 13 AP = 22.5 Stat Points

Giving up 0 points to get 6 Hit Rating. Paying absolutely nothing to increase Hit by 6

The... confusion Im having here is that, in fact, you arent getting the hit for free, as that statement implies. You're losing 6 item points to gain that 6 hit rating - you're paying 1 item point to gain 1 hit rating.



If I understand your post correctly, you're telling us how muc EXTRA we are paying per pint of hit as compared to another stat, not how much we're paying per point of hit. Just add 1 to each of your bolded numbers and I think it would make it much more easy to understand.

 

[WSG]

Just add 1 to each of your bolded numbers and I think it would make it much more easy to understand.

Done, thanks for feedback.

 

[squidmagnet]

Very helpful.



The only thing that confuses me is that you count the sp on the drape as equal to the agi and sta on the cloak when evaluating it. Why would a hunter give up sta or agi for sp? I just don't think that the points of sp should have equal value with the points of agi or sta. Also, I have read elswhere that int is not as good as agi, point for point, even with the talent that makes int equal ap. Can we have a discussion about how to scale points of one stat against points of other stats?

 

[Xposure]

hmm, int is good for mana tho

 

[Evocate]

I feel your math on Girdle of the Blindwatcher and Deviate Scale Belt is wrong.



Girdle of the Blindwatcher - 7 int 8 stam (15 points)

Deviate Scale Belt - 5 stam 6 agi (11 points)

I dont think you should add the hit as stat points because incorporating the stat that you are comparing counts it twice. Thus you are giving up 4 points for 3 hit.



I also think certain things should get extra points per weight. For example .. int = mana as well as AP. Agility = ap as well as crit.. etc. This should be given more weight then something like stamina. By your logic Robes of the Moccassin (6 int 6 spir 7 sp for a combined 19) would be better then TBJ (10 int and 6 stam for a combined 16). Yet spirit clearly has less of a value then either int or stam so in reality it should be something like 16 vs 13 stats.



In arena I wouldn't even really try to get hit capped. I would get as close as I could but I wouldnt mind not hitting it..



Maybe 5 in lethal, 3 in careful, 2 in focused. Thats 2%. Then Lavishly Jeweled (2 hit) and Simple Pearl (4 hit). Here you give up 3 agi/3 int from a meadow falcon ring. This (imo) is better then the 6 agi 2 stam you give up from cloak and the screecher belt which is infinetly better then deviates.



If you are a dranei (which imo most alliance hunters should be) this is 100x easier. 3% talented 1% dranei and then lavishly = hit capped

 

[WSG]

Very helpful.



The only thing that confuses me is that you count the sp on the drape as equal to the agi and sta on the cloak when evaluating it. Why would a hunter give up sta or agi for sp? I just don't think that the points of sp should have equal value with the points of agi or sta. Also, I have read elswhere that int is not as good as agi, point for point, even with the talent that makes int equal ap. Can we have a discussion about how to scale points of one stat against points of other stats?

First, I did not count the 4 spell power on the drape. It has 4 stam and 4 hit. 4 + 4 = 8 stat points.



As for Int vs. Agi, I don't think you can discount Int's massive influence on your mana pool. I was rocking Falcon gear BEFORE the change that gave 1 Int per AP. Getting locked up with other hunters 1v1, they would get a lead on me, but then go OOM and ultimately lose. Mana is also necessary to kite and kiting keeps you alive. At 19, Hunters lack the traditional talents/abilities that allow them to keep restoring their mana, so Int is very important in my eyes. YMMV.

I feel your math on Girdle of the Blindwatcher and Deviate Scale Belt is wrong.



Girdle of the Blindwatcher - 7 int 8 stam (15 points)

Deviate Scale Belt - 5 stam 6 agi (11 points)

I dont think you should add the hit as stat points because incorporating the stat that you are comparing counts it twice. Thus you are giving up 4 points for 3 hit.

If you feel that math is wrong, then my math on every item is wrong by the same magnitude, making the comparison between items still valid.



The whole point of the post is this: If a hunter said "I want to get the highest possible Stat Allotment out of each piece of gear", then he would only end up at 2 Hit Rating (Lavishly). This would actually produce sub-optimal performance as Hit Rating is the most important stat you can possibly get. That is fact.



If you were to tell me that I am only getting 11 total stats on Deviate belt while you are getting 15 with your Girdle, I would assume that you some how missed the green text stating that I get 3 hit rating in addition to 5 agi and 6 stam. 3+5+6 = 14. And my 14 is actually better than your 15 since Hit > all else.

I also think certain things should get extra points per weight. For example .. int = mana as well as AP. Agility = ap as well as crit.. etc. This should be given more weight then something like stamina. By your logic Robes of the Moccassin (6 int 6 spir 7 sp for a combined 19) would be better then TBJ (10 int and 6 stam for a combined 16). Yet spirit clearly has less of a value then either int or stam so in reality it should be something like 16 vs 13 stats.

First, I never count spell power or spirit on any item.

Second, the fact that Agi and Int have two effects is already accounted for in their stat weight. Attack Power is only worth half a point yet I value these stats at 1 full point because of their crit or mana contributions.



In fact, if we had the same gear options at 19 that we do at 80, Agility would actually be pretty bad. All gear has an item budget based on it's item level. This budget is set by Blizzard. Agility takes up 1 point of the budget. Attack Power takes up half a point. Crit takes up 1 point. So say you had two rings each with 6 Agility. That 12 Agility would give you 12 AP and increase crit% by ~1.2%. Now say you found two new rings, one with 12 AP and the other with 6 Crit Rating. Despite having the same item budgets as the 6 Agi rings, this combination would give you 12 AP and increase your crit chance by ~2.0%. You'd lose a bit of dodge and armor, but overall, it would be seen as better.



For the record, here is how I weight the stats:

1 Agility/1 Stamina/1 Intellect/1 Crit = 1 Stat Point

1 Attack Power = 0.5 Stat Point

Those are based on the amount of item budget they take up on level 19 gear.



X amount of Spirit = 0.1 Stat Point

X amount of Strength = 0.1 Stat Point

X amount of Spell Power = 0. Nothing. Squadoosh.



Strength and Spirit do not provide enough of a benefit for me to consider them anything more than a bonus. For instance, if one item had 4 int, 4 stam, and 4 spirit vs. annother item with 4 stam and 4 agi, I would choose the first one since it's 8.1 vs 8. But if the second one had 4 stam and 5 agi, I would now take that one. By my stat weights, [item]Screecher Belt[/item] has a value of 14.1.



I didn't list Hit Rating. 1 Hit Rating also takes up 1 point of the budget, but again, it is far more valuable than the others up to the cap. After the cap, it is as useless as spell power.



THESE ARE JUST MY OWN PERSONAL VALUES. The are not tested in some sort of simulator. Tweak these values as you see fit and run your own item analysis if you feel they should be weighted differently.

 

[squidmagnet]

I still have a problem with valuing agility over stamina. In my experience, few combats last more than 15 seconds, or maybe 25 on the outside, before one of you drops. I don't think that 14 points of agility will be able to increase the amount of damage dealt over that amount of time by more than the 140 points of health you would get from 14 points of stamina. But I can't find the precise mathematical formulas that I would need to prove it. Some calculators suggest 14 points of ap for one dps gain. I can't find that kind of info for the crit. Presuming a base dps around 50 points, I think it would need to be 15% or more to be worth it. Is it that much? I don't think that it is anywhere close to that much. I'm not really counting the dodge, because if you are doing an effective job of kiting, I don't think that the extra dodge from agility is an important factor. But gaining advantages from dodge is situationally dependent. Thoughts?

 

[Evocate]

Heres the problem. You are weighing hit right? The comparison is hit vs (stats). Now on the deviate belt you include the 3 hit as a stat. So now you are comparing: Hit vs (Stats +Hit). The hit points are counted twice. 3 hit/14 stat points instead of 3 hit/17 stat points.