22 intellect VS. 29/30 spellpower for healers

lindenkron said:
You being a shaman with a spirit shield, prolly find a 1-h spirit weapon or mp5 (BoA) and put +20 spirit on it :)



My Shaman has [ITEM]Devout Aurastone Hammer[/ITEM] with +22 Int and [ITEM]Deadskull Shield[/ITEM] with +7 stam to start the fight.



Switches to [ITEM]The Blessed Hammer of Grace[/ITEM] with 30 Spell Power when the mana from the Devout Aurastone is gone.



After the fight, I go to [ITEM]Evocator's Blade[/ITEM] with +20 Spirit along with [ITEM]Arctic Buckler[/ITEM] with 4mp5/hp5.



If I am in a bad pug, I just got to the Spell Power weapon first. I get killed too fast for mana to be an issue so I might as well pack a punch while alive.
 
i agree on the fact that both are quite cool, but when you know about coeficient and the fact that intellect gives off mana regeneration now... it is quite hard to understand why you are using the spell power enchant when you have no mana to power it ?



best way to regenerate mana faster is to have +int and +spirit at the same time !

again i'd use the SP one at first and then use the INT ones when i need some mana regen. the SPI weapons are also cool to regen mana !



this is not theorycrafting, this is reality !

to see what those coeficient are its quite simple...

each spells and abilities use a fragment of you spell power or attack power depending on their type.



let me take an exemple of your shaman...

Healing wave uses 166.06% of your spell power as a boost to healing.

that means that if you have 100SP total. you Healing wave is gonna add another 166 to your healing wave. meaning you're gonna heal 166 life point better then what your healing wave is saying it will !



again this is not theory crafting for this is a fact.

blizzard likes to work with % instead of true numbers as % level easily with characters.

166.06% is way bigger at level 80 with 2000SP then it is at 19 with 100SP. this is why it is important to know what you want in world of warcraft for it is important to maximise what you want to do.



an exemple... if i want to max Crit with my DK at 80, i'll be adding agility / crit rating more then anything else. reguardless of if i get less AP from agility then strenght, it doesn't matter i want crit not AP. the same applies to lower levels, the why rogues likes agility so much is simple to the fact that gives them AP, crit and dodge. if they'd want to be all about attack power for their abilities, they'd go for STRENGHT and AGILITY for it would give them twice the number of AP.



casters like intellect for it gives them what they need.

intellect, mana regen, spell crit.

but spell power boost off their spells.

so what do you want more... with the coeficient at 19 and the fact that there is lower levels, the spell power is not much of a difference at 19. but still usefull, but you need a lot more then just 30sp to make it worth it. though it depends on the spell you are using the most. in the case of your shaman, 30 SP of healing wave is well worth it. as it is about 50 more healing which is a good one hit.
 
i have seen some killer +22 int healers from "prodigy" - Bloodhoof in the RUIN BG 19 WSGs. and many of them never switch out. their priest and palidans pull off monster healing stats, and overall are harder to kill than some of the total SP spec'd equivilents.



we have gone up against them with difficulty, looks like having switch outs is the way to go starting with +22 int for our priests.
 
This thread is scaring me. I think the 'reasoning' I've seen here just convinced me to make Quara's Quarner #2 entitled "Sets and When to Use Them."



To put it simply, ArthurianKnight you are very wrong. If you are going to be casting, Intellect helps your regeneration 0%. If you're not casting, switch on a spirit staff. Your Intellect should be boosted to a high enough number due to your other gear to have a good coefficient (squareroot(int), that is.) Stacking more Int gives diminishing returns to your Spirit Regen.



Obviously +330 Mana is important, and it allows for ~2 more heals (or, more regularly, ~6 dispels.) But as soon as you burn through that mana, you'll want to swap into +SP gear (meaning weapon, followed by other items if the game allows for it.)



You should only be thinking about mana regeneration when you're low on mana or can get away with not casting for awhile.



You should never have and Int weapon on after you're 330 mana down.



The spell crit is negligible in the equation...+22 int gives an astounding +.4 to crit, more or less.
 
whitekush said:
Quara, you say you should never have a 22 int weapon on after the initial 330 is burned. Is this where hammer of grace gets switched in?



Yes. The reason I use Blessed Hammer of Grace is that I can't afford 2 Devout maces.



The plan is: us the mana from an int enchant. Once 330 mana is gone, swap in a spell power weapon for added healing/damage. Once the fight is over, put in spirit/MP5 gear.



And Quara is right. If I am in the five second rule, spirit and int do nothing for my mana regen.
 
it doesn't make sens to me... but there is something bothering me about all this, i'd have to try a few things first.



i never said +22 intellect was better then spirit for mana regeneration.

but if i follow your little guide about how to play it, you were speaking of the 5 second rules and how to stay out of it, the easier way to stay out of it and be ready to get serious mana regen without having to switch back and forth every 5 seconds would be to keep +int.



but that's theory crafting, and so is your most of that guide of yours !

there is no mistaking it, when you are very low on mana, get out of the fight, switch to spirit gears and drink at the same time... quite the regen right there ! its the stat of the fight that bothers me the most... what you are saying is that +22 intellect is good only for the 220 mana it nets you... but you are forgetting how much crit it gives you. that crit outdoes the 30 SP by quite a far number if you ask me. i'm not gonna lose that much crit % just to gain 5-10 more life point out of my heals !



run the numbers dude, you'll see what i mean.

if you are a mage, shaman or anything that wants to cast and DPS the shit out of the others, SP is valuable... for a priest in healing gears, sp is valuable to some extent but its not worth jumping on the stat to begin with ! my priest has about 100sp and i don't see the point in going higher then that !



just like hunters, priest needs a hell of a lot mana to be good.

that's what i think... switching over after the initial 220 mana means i do about 3 heals and then i switch... what's the point then... serve no purpose to me. +22intellect gives me mana regen when i'm not casting, 30SP doesn't ! and my goal is not to burn thru my mana right away, fights in the gulch tends to be quite brutal, yet only my renew are enough and with the occasionnal shield its even better.



i'm often out of the 5 second rules and regening my mana while helping others and mana regen is important at that point. if i had to switch to 30SP i had been out of mana long ago !
 
Again, you're just wrong. No way around it. Let me explain.



you were speaking of the 5 second rules and how to stay out of it, the easier way to stay out of it and be ready to get serious mana regen without having to switch back and forth every 5 seconds would be to keep +int.

If you're not in a Spirit set, +22 intellect will not be gaining you a ridiculous amount of mana regen anyway. For example, in my 'cookie-cutter' set, with +30 SP, I have 88 int and 68 spirit. Swapping in my Twisted Chanter's w/ +22 (that's an extra +32 int right there) gains me a staggering 5 mana/5. Why is it so low? Because the coefficient for Intellect is based on its Square Root. Stacking Int gives diminishing returns to the gain in mp5, like I have said.



Mathematical example. let X and Y be the two values in the equation, one of which gets multiplied to the squareroot of the other. (NOTE: This is a very simplified form of things.)

Let's say you have 100X and 1Y:



(100X) * squareroot(Y) = 100



Here you only have to increase Y by 3 to gain an additional 100.



(100X) * squareroot(4Y) = 200



To reach the next multiple of 100, you have to increase your Y value by larger and larger amounts (+5Y, then +7Y, +9Y, +11Y, +13Y, ...)



So you see, adding Intellect is less useful the more you have. And hell, if you still have +22 int on chances are you don't have to regenerate much mana at the moment.



BTW, in the previous example, just a simple switch to Staff of the Friar (+28 spirit net) gives me a whole +17 mp5. Of course, if you don't feel like taking the effort to switch in and out of 'the oomstick', then go for it. Just be aware of what you're losing.





saying is that +22 intellect is good only for the 220 mana it nets you... but you are forgetting how much crit it gives you. that crit outdoes the 30 SP by quite a far number if you ask me. i'm not gonna lose that much crit % just to gain 5-10 more life point out of my heals !

1.) It's +330 mana. And yes, that's all it's good for.



2.) As I already stated, the amount of +crit is laughable. It's actually not as bad as I thought (calculated that %on chardev) but it's still completely useless:



In my same 'cookie cutter build', switching to TCS from Staff of the B. Seer gives me +1.8% spell crit. And and with today's average health pool, crit heals are almost ALWAYS mostly over-healing anyway. I'd say, and this is a generous estimate, that this gives my heals about 1% more effectiveness. This is no where the power of +30 SP...Which brings me to



3.) You don't just "gain 5-10 more life point out of my heals." +30 Spell Power gives you, more or less, and this is on Heal (rank 1), +50 to each Heal. That's about a 15% increase in effect.









run the numbers dude, you'll see what i mean.

Read up.



if you are a mage, shaman or anything that wants to cast and DPS the shit out of the others, SP is valuable... for a priest in healing gears, sp is valuable to some extent but its not worth jumping on the stat to begin with

Of all these examples, SP is most valuable to Priests. It makes everything (read: everything) you do better. Well, except wanding. That's Haste's job, and for a different discussion :O



only my renew are enough and with the occasionnal shield its even better.

And they're better with SP.



i'm often out of the 5 second rules and regening my mana while helping others and mana regen is important at that point. if i had to switch to 30SP i had been out of mana long ago !



I'll end by repeating what I said before: +22 Intellect is not useful for mana regeneration. Unless your gearset is completely void of other Intellect, it will give you at BEST +5mp5. A nice juicy spirit stick will give you at least double that.



Switching weapons is a key part of any priest's game. Ask anyone if you don't like to listen to what I say.
 
WSG said:
Yes. The reason I use Blessed Hammer of Grace is that I can't afford 2 Devout maces.



The plan is: us the mana from an int enchant. Once 330 mana is gone, swap in a spell power weapon for added healing/damage. Once the fight is over, put in spirit/MP5 gear.



And Quara is right. If I am in the five second rule, spirit and int do nothing for my mana regen.



You don't think you made the right decision by using the blessed hammer because of increased stam and Mp5
 
shanker said:
i have seen some killer +22 int healers from "prodigy" - Bloodhoof in the RUIN BG 19 WSGs. and many of them never switch out. their priest and palidans pull off monster healing stats, and overall are harder to kill than some of the total SP spec'd equivilents.



we have gone up against them with difficulty, looks like having switch outs is the way to go starting with +22 int for our priests.



Just curious, but I assume you have a twink in TI, who is it?



I can't speak for all of Prodigy's Priests, but I know our A-teamers have all three staves and do switch to SP after losing the mana. And to be honest I think I'm the only Holy Pally in Prodigy at the moment, and I can assure you I switch to my SP mace when I drop below the threshold.





whitekush said:
You don't think you made the right decision by using the blessed hammer because of increased stam and Mp5



Blessed Hammer and Aurastone Hammer have the same amount of stam at 19 (3). I use Blessed for my SP weapon solely for the 1mp5 on my Paladin, since the Aurastone doesn't really have anything useful on it once you get below the 390 extra mana it gives you.
 

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