20 Class/Spec Tier List

[Guacamålé]

prot pallys arent bad at all, if you put frost mages in 1st tier then are prot forsure atleast tier 2. Prot are
good, all you ferals and discs just gotta realise that.

 

[LennywBT]

Prot goes to Middle tier - that's what i think should be done. It has good mobility - LoH - Bubble - A CC on enemies' healers, HoJ.

 

[Bop]

Frost mages tier 1 when they get solo'd by tier 5 BM hunter pets. Logic.

If frost mages are tier 1 then I officially resign my master troll rights to BoP

I'm actually surprised that this seems like a new development for people. Frost Mages are 2nd in arenas to only Feral Druids. Their damage is mediocre, but that makes very, very little difference. I feel like that's where a lot of this confusion is coming from - we have a hard time identifying a specialization that doesn't have high damage as being top tier. The reason Frost Mages shine in arenas is because they can 1v1 lockout a healer for almost an entire arena match. In fact, if this was merely an Arena Tier List, I would place Frost Mages next to Ferals.

In regards to Battlegrounds, they are horrid in PuGs. On a PuG tier list, I would probably place them in Tier 4 - maybe Tier 3. But this isn't about PuGs; it's about 10v10s and Arenas. In 10v10s, I would say Frost Mage is somewhere in Tier 2. They have a massive impact on their games because of their ability to control the enemy back line without equal due to their high CC and survivability. However, their damage is obviously fairly poor - which is why they cede their Tier 1 spot in a 10v10 Tier List.

So if we were going to do some sort of score out of 10, Frost Mages would be something like 10/10 in Arenas, and maybe 6.5 or 7/10 for Battlegrounds. Averaging it places them higher than 8/10, which is Tier 1.

prot pallys arent bad at all, if you put frost mages in 1st tier then are prot forsure atleast tier 2. Prot are
good, all you ferals and discs just gotta realise that.

I don't think Prot Pallys are bad. They have a low Tier Score from me because my Tier List is for competitive 10v10s and Arenas. In PuG games, they are pretty awesome - probably high Tier 3 or low Tier 2. As far as in relation to Frost Mages, feel free to read my response to the above Quotes.

Prot goes to Middle tier - that's what i think should be done. It has good mobility - LoH - Bubble - A CC on enemies' healers, HoJ.

Hmm, as I said to guacamole, I would place them around there in a PuG Tier List. I think they're pretty bottom of the barrel in 10v10s and Arenas. Or if you don't agree and would place Protadins as Tier 3, what would you move to Tier 5? I can't think of 6 worse specializations in competitive 20 PvP than the ones I have listed.

 

[Tiger]

If frost mages are tier 1 because this bracket can't range or LoS or smeld or guise a poly, so be it. However, saying a BM Hunter is tier 5 when you can control an FC from 100 yards with one is just absurd. They are R1 on D, can 1v1 any non healer, have some of the best support in the bracket with sac and pet buffs and also the highest skill cap of any class.

 

[Lluyd]

In regards to Battlegrounds, they are horrid in PuGs. On a PuG tier list, I would probably place them in Tier 4 - maybe Tier 3. But this isn't about PuGs; it's about 10v10s and Arenas. In 10v10s, I would say Frost Mage is somewhere in Tier 2. They have a massive impact on their games because of their ability to control the enemy back line without equal due to their high CC and survivability. However, their damage is obviously fairly poor - which is why they cede their Tier 1 spot in a 10v10 Tier List.

If thats how you are doing your tier list wouldn't feral druids bed mid tier with 5/10. Because feral druids are banned from nearly all 10v10 games which by default makes them a 0/10 seeing as they cant play in them and we aren't counting pugs. And in arena they get a 10/10 I guess which makes them average out at a 5 being mid tier

 

[Bop]

If thats how you are doing your tier list wouldn't feral druids bed mid tier with 5/10. Because feral druids are banned from nearly all 10v10 games which by default makes them a 0/10 seeing as they cant play in them and we aren't counting pugs. And in arena they get a 10/10 I guess which makes them average out at a 5 being mid tier

Haha - if being banned meant getting a 0/10, then I guess Feral would be mid tier.

 

[LennywBT]

Why the hell is balance mid-tier. A balance druid's potential in a game beats any other class. You can FC - you can do everything at certain situations. You can make your team follow you on mid, and you can be their leader. If you get in a bad spot you displacer back, maybe leading into one of their team members overextending - you can get combos and dot everyone on mid. A starsurge into displacer >bite is super deadly. Something a feral would never do and lacks complete potential in that. So i would put Balance rank 1. As it is one of the best classes in the game right now but requires a massive amount of skill to achieve the best results in a game.

The impact a balance can have in a game is insane. I have tried it and i loved it!

 

[Hooloda]

arms warrior should be 1# someone critted 4.2k on me yesterday !! also the rend ticks hurts as fuck!!

 

[Yann]

I'm the best.

 

[Lluyd]

Why the hell is balance mid-tier. A balance druid's potential in a game beats any other class. You can FC - you can do everything at certain situations. You can make your team follow you on mid, and you can be their leader. If you get in a bad spot you displacer back, maybe leading into one of their team members overextending - you can get combos and dot everyone on mid. A starsurge into displacer >bite is super deadly. Something a feral would never do and lacks complete potential in that. So i would put Balance rank 1. As it is one of the best classes in the game right now but requires a massive amount of skill to achieve the best results in a game.

The impact a balance can have in a game is insane. I have tried it and i loved it!

You forgot the best part, they can turn into a space chicken!

 

[coolio]

in battlegrounds, where Frost Mages have single handedly carried.

Master troll. This never happens lmao

 

[Bop]

Master troll. This never happens lmao

Twitch

Here ya go!

One of the most competitive 10v10s there has ever been

Are you perhaps talking about PuGs, where Frost Mages are bad?

But surely you wouldn't be talking about PuGs, because I've said 1,000,000,000,000 times that this is only competitive PvP (10v10s and Arenas) XD

 

[Srs]

So as stated in my original post, my tier list ranks each specialization from 1 to 31, and then divides them into 5 categories. In other words, the criteria to meet a tier list was defined as being in a certain quintile of ranking.

To have an uneven distribution of specializations through a tier list would imply that there is some sort of criteria that you are applying to each tier list (I.E., Tier 1 must have the best survivability, damage, burst, and control, etc etc). I do not wish to make any such implications. The only metric for this list is to be in the corresponding Tier for each Quintile. Tier 1 = 80-100%, Tier 2 = 60-80%, Tier 3 = 40-60%, Tier 4 = 20-40%, Tier 5 = 0-20%.

I think dividing the specializations evenly is the best way to approach making a tier list.

To address some specific examples that people have brought up:

Balance is a must have in a 10v10, but it's much more lackluster in Arenas. As I stated, this list combines all aspects of competitive level 20 PvP, as I did not want to make a list specific to BG's or Arenas. The potential use of my tier list could be to pick a class that is the most consistent throughout all forms of 20 PvP, rather than just in BGs or just in Arenas.

Restoration Druids and Guardian Druids, I would argue, deserve to be in the same tier. They bring very little outside of their capability for a large bite. While Restoration Druids are capable of FCing without the increased damage from being a tank, they don't bring much to the team in terms of healing or consistent DPS. Guardian Druids on the other hand are capable of some very impressive damage in Arenas, where they do not receive extra damage from being a tank. However, neither of these specs are consistently seen in competitive levels of play in Arenas, and only Restoration Druids are played consistently in Battlegrounds; albeit not for their own merit but because Guardian cannot be played. Restoration Druid stands on the cusp of Tier 2, while Guardian is just past the doorstep of Tier 4. I think that is a fair approximation of their overall merits at level 20 PvP.

Frost Mage and Feral Druids are both Tier 1, although for very different reasons. One other thing to keep in mind with an evenly spread Tier List is that the only distinctions being made are X Tier is better than Y Tier, and within each Tier the list of specializations imply an ordered hierarchy as well. Never do I make any assertion regarding HOW MUCH better one specialization is than another. One can assume that the difference between any two ordered specializations in this list is not necessary uniform across the entire ladder. In this instance, the gap between Feral Druids and literally anything else is ridiculously massive. Arms is the closest in terms of overall power to Feral, but certainly there is still a massive gap. Frost Mage is tier 1 because it is essentially a must-have in both Arenas and competitive Battlegrounds. The class is borderline oppressive in both of those environments; in battlegrounds, where Frost Mages have single handedly carried games before, and in Arenas, where it has been hypothesized that no team without a Frost Mage will win a 3's tournament.

I hope this clears things up. I would advise those of you who were surprised by my tier list to read the explanations that went along with the list so as to understand where I was coming from when I wrote the list. I think pretty much all of the questions that were posed to me in this thread could have been answered through simple reading.

seperate lists for bgs and arenas. healers and fcs should get their own lists. add feral to banned tier.

and are these just a f2p lists? weapon procs, such as crusader and landslide, can greatly change a spec's viability.

 

[Bop]

healers and fcs should get their own list. add feral to banned tier.

Yeah, ideally a Tier List would be complex enough to put FCs and Healers in their own categories, and to apply an actual numerical score to each class corresponding to how powerful they are within the Tier List.

The problem is that I would have to apply some sort of rubric with which to grade each specialization, and take the time to make separate categories with separate rubrics for FCs/Healers.

I think the list works for right now.

I'm still willing to defend any spec on my list, though! I'm fairly confident in all of my choices, still.

 

[Lluyd]

Twitch

Here ya go!

One of the most competitive 10v10s there has ever been

Are you perhaps talking about PuGs, where Frost Mages are bad?

But surely you wouldn't be talking about PuGs, because I've said 1,000,000,000,000 times that this is only competitive PvP (10v10s and Arenas) XD

Wow my FCing was horrible back then, but those games were a lot of fun.

 

[Leek]

nah frost mage isnt tier 1. sure it can turn the tide but it requires a skilled player and a cooperative team to pull it off. idiots on team keep breaking sheep. Balance druid and arms warrior however....

 

[Bop]

nah frost mage isnt tier 1. sure it can turn the tide but it requires a skilled player and a cooperative team to pull it off. idiots on team keep breaking sheep. Balance druid and arms warrior however....

The Tier List for both competitive BGs and Arena assumes "skill capped" players - that is, the skill of the players does not impact the usefulness of the specialization.

 

[coolio]

nah frost mage isnt tier 1. sure it can turn the tide but it requires a skilled player and a cooperative team to pull it off. idiots on team keep breaking sheep. Balance druid and arms warrior however....

Ty. Idk what bop is talking about lol

 

[Bop]

Ty. Idk what bop is talking about lol

I'm not really sure you are making an effort to.

I linked the video of a Frost Mage carrying in a competitive 10v10 by sheer strength and knowledge of the spec.

I then explained to Leek that the situation he is referring to is either pug or low skill 10v10, neither of which are relevant for my Tier List.

I hope this helps us to get on the same page.

 

[LennywBT]

Druids are OP - especially balance. It pretty much can perform any role in a game.

A Balance druid can :

- Throw rejuvs when people are receiving a ton of damage - which may help the healers a little bit
- Do massive amount of damage throwing Dots
- Has finishing abilities, such as Starsurge / Ferocious Bite that have the potential to guarantee a kill (magical and physical damage)
- Is able to quickly adapt on objective and defensive plays when needed
- Is able to solo any class, including feral druids, probably with the exception of healers

Deserves Top tier. Rank 1.

I do not think there is any class close to balance so far.

But, i don't really think this thread makes sense in a way. There is a different list for Arenas and BGs. You cannot just throw them all together - a Balance Druid is less effective in arenas.