15 agi or 5 wep dmg
- Thread starter Curley
- Start date
Crilicilyn
OG
Ok, you guys are all special.
Without the 15% agi increase*
15 agi = 30 ap = 2 dps
add that to an AB at like 15.7 dps (before its stat boosts the dps) u get 17.7 dps.
5 wep damage on ab = ((20+5)+(39+5))/2/1.9=18.1 (tht math is off of when AB used to be 15.5 dps, it might be 18.3 dps)
With Sub agi gives more raw dps.
Another thing ALL of you forget is damage multipliers on backstab and ambush that account for STRIKE DAMAGE.
When you compare the 2 it is important to note that after multipliers 5 wep dmg always gives bigger ambush and should still give bigger backstabs EVEN IN SUB SPEC, while giving less damage in everything else while in sub spec/more damage in assassination spec.
Without the 15% agi increase*
15 agi = 30 ap = 2 dps
add that to an AB at like 15.7 dps (before its stat boosts the dps) u get 17.7 dps.
5 wep damage on ab = ((20+5)+(39+5))/2/1.9=18.1 (tht math is off of when AB used to be 15.5 dps, it might be 18.3 dps)
With Sub agi gives more raw dps.
Another thing ALL of you forget is damage multipliers on backstab and ambush that account for STRIKE DAMAGE.
When you compare the 2 it is important to note that after multipliers 5 wep dmg always gives bigger ambush and should still give bigger backstabs EVEN IN SUB SPEC, while giving less damage in everything else while in sub spec/more damage in assassination spec.
Rivfader
OG
Falaris said:
assuming you're sub:
15 agility = 15*1.25*2 ap
37.5/15 = 2.68 dps
assuming AB: 2.68*1.9 = 5.09 additional top end
edit: Even easier, look at char sheet when you have +5 wep damage and compare that to when you have +15 agi
the only thing I'm not really sure of is weapon speed normalization and how to factor that in.
Last edit:
I believe that AP contribution is normalized for 1.8 seconds if you have a dagger equipped which would mean that +15 agi gives you 4.82 more top end on an ambush or backstab so even after multipliers the damage increase from +5 wep damage is negligable (7.14 damage on a hit).
curleypwnsu said:
yes, the +5 dmg is affected by backstab modifiers
Crilicilyn
OG
Falaris said:
woops my mistake, 10% more agility hmm, im too busy atm to do the math, but on Ass spec it still stands that having 5 wep dmg is better, and ambush will ALWAYS be better w/ 5wep dmg period regardless of %agi increase on 15agi. Either way u should ALWAYS have a dagger w/ 15 agi and 5wep dmg as a twink anyways really.
Trespasser
OG
As for the 15agi vs +5damage enchant let me point you to this post for probably the most complete calculation you will get here: http://www.twinkinfo.com/forums/10-...pon-damage-vs-15-agility-cata.html#post190053
As for the shadowfang vs AB question by Falaris.:
Ambush at lvl 19
Now because I am at work I won't take the +agi on shadowfang and the agi on assassin's blade into consideration
Now to calculate lets just say you have 300AP (number doesn't really make a difference) and since all other effect from talents for ambush are percentages it doesn't make a difference because the effect would be applied to both weapons (it would make the difference greater between the two but you can still see which one is better)
300/14=21.4 increased weapon dps.
Lets look at assassin's blade first
Assassin's blade is 15.8dps plus the 21.4 dps from AP for a total of 37.2dps
average weapon damage then is 37.2*1.9=70.68
Now we get the damage part
274.93 weapon damage plus 33*2.75
70.68*2.7493+33*2.75=285.07damage
Voor shadowfang ziet het er als volgt uit
15.8 + 21.4 = 37.2 dps
37.2*2.7 = 100.44 average weapon damage
Now it's 190% weapon damage 33*1.9
So 100.44*1.9+33*1.9 = 253.54 damage
Well as you can see ambush does more damage with Assassin's blade then with Shadowfang and any effect like improved ambush and Master of Subtlety won't change then.
As for the shadowfang vs AB question by Falaris.:
Ambush at lvl 19
Now because I am at work I won't take the +agi on shadowfang and the agi on assassin's blade into consideration
Now to calculate lets just say you have 300AP (number doesn't really make a difference) and since all other effect from talents for ambush are percentages it doesn't make a difference because the effect would be applied to both weapons (it would make the difference greater between the two but you can still see which one is better)
300/14=21.4 increased weapon dps.
Lets look at assassin's blade first
Assassin's blade is 15.8dps plus the 21.4 dps from AP for a total of 37.2dps
average weapon damage then is 37.2*1.9=70.68
Now we get the damage part
274.93 weapon damage plus 33*2.75
70.68*2.7493+33*2.75=285.07damage
Voor shadowfang ziet het er als volgt uit
15.8 + 21.4 = 37.2 dps
37.2*2.7 = 100.44 average weapon damage
Now it's 190% weapon damage 33*1.9
So 100.44*1.9+33*1.9 = 253.54 damage
Well as you can see ambush does more damage with Assassin's blade then with Shadowfang and any effect like improved ambush and Master of Subtlety won't change then.
Theme
OG
I am in belief the white dmg is not normalized?
You realise that if Rivfaders math is right, 15agi gives you about 5wep dmg AND some crit+dodge+ap for strikes that scale with it directly, so its hands down better in all aspects?
EDIT: Also I think ambush is a normalized attack, so that would mean the weapon dmg for the ambush would be calculated like this:
15.8*1.9+21.4*1.8=92.556 and for the sf same way except I cant remember whats normalized weapons speed for a sword.
Grunge
OG
curleypwnsu said:
-_-
did you even read the tooltips for your class mechanics?
You might want to go to elitistjerks and learn how to make damage charts in excel, its kinda rude to ask people to do it for you and explain how it all works without you looking for the information on your own first.
tinkinfololo
Legend
Grunge said:
curley doesn't have time for math breh, he's too busy being the #1 rogue.
lindenkron
OG
Question; Is there such thing as #1 rogue any more? I mean, sap + 1-hit.. all nelfs are #1 rogues? 
tinkinfololo
Legend
lindenkron said:Question; Is there such thing as #1 rogue any more? I mean, sap + 1-hit.. all nelfs are #1 rogues?
rogue vs anything but holy paladin is pretty lame right now.
lindenkron
OG
tinkinfololo said:
This scenario is already pretty lame. Since the rogue can't win it.
Nohealsforju
Legend
lindenkron said:
on the contrary i can beat down H pallys just by wearing them down and forcing them to use CDs. It may take awhile but i am able to basically 1v1 a holy pally takes some skills and poping stuff at the right time. Btw am i the only rogue that uses Recuperate?
I haven't seen a rogue on low HP pop it meanwhile running. i am either thinking it is a bug or that it is hidden from the new 'Buff box'
lindenkron
OG
Nohealsforju said:
You EU or US? I wish to 1v1 you.
Johneffer
Legend
It's a fact, no Rogue can beat a Holy Paladin. Lets say that a holy paladin has 1400 health, a rogue shadow steps and ambushes you for 800, the pally uses instant heal which would be around 300 heals and plus a 200 instant heal (depending on crit) from your talents. So your already back up to 1100. Once the rogue has used ambush (that is there main source of damage) it gets wasted in 3 seconds by pallys instant heals. There is no reason to use FoL with pallies because the OPness of instant heals. The only way i could see a rogue killing a HP is by double ambushing him with a friend.
Crilicilyn
OG
Combat spec vs holy pally mebbeh? I dk, I'm so confused w/ all the new stuff I'm thinking redownloading the WoW client was a bad idea =/
Do i rly have to play daggers to be cool? imo thye just nerfed the shit outta my rogue in all the facilities I used to love it for. Blizz can gobble my nuts and take it in the eye.
Do i rly have to play daggers to be cool? imo thye just nerfed the shit outta my rogue in all the facilities I used to love it for. Blizz can gobble my nuts and take it in the eye.